Just had the shit kicked out of me

 It's a bit off topic but for those who haven't had their COVID vaccinations I thought I'd share my real world experience regarding side effects. I'm 48 and pretty fit and healthy (or so I thought). Had my fist Pfizer dose three weeks ago with no real side effects apart from a sore arm. Went in yesterday for round two and I woke up at one o'clock this morning freezing my tits off and shaking uncontrollably (This is definitely not normal for living in the Torres Straights). Had a hotter than hell shower for a half hour with all of the doors n windows closed in my bathroom and was still freezing afterwards. Tried using last nights towel to dry myself and it felt like it was liquid ice, switched to a dry towel and managed to get myself dry with chattering teeth and uncontrollable shaking. Hopped into bed with a doona ( definetly not normal ) and managed to get warm and get to sleep. Woke up an hour later soaked to the bone and feeling like I was on fire. Managed to get back to sleep and woke up this morning feeling like I've just met Marsellus Wallace's friends with the blowtorch and a pair of pliers. Every single joint and muscle in my body is absolutely munted and I'm hurting in places that I didn't even know that existed. Looks like a day on the couch with plenty of Netflix coming my way. Interesting thing is my wife had the Astra Zeneca jab and she got flattened by the first dose and felt okay with the second. Just be prepared when you get whacked to have some downtime available to get your back on track. Now if I can just get my dog to get the remote for me all will be good....

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 My wife understands why I clean my rods n reels in the shower....

 


uncle's picture

Posts: 9323

Date Joined: 10/02/07

About time we had a dedicated health minister

Thu, 2021-07-29 14:02

and not a part timer. This clowns is just not good enough 

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hezzy's picture

Posts: 1519

Date Joined: 27/11/09

https://www.msn.com/en-au/new

Fri, 2021-07-30 07:45

https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/how-you-can-be-fined-500-for-leaving-your-home-without-a-mask/ar-AAMH1nd?ocid=msedgntp

NSW Premier Gladys Berejiklian confirmed on Thursday police were cracking down on on people not following restrictions.

Fines around face mask requirements were more than doubled from $200 to $500, and 1,000 police officers being deployed to enforce the rules.

One woman posted to a local community group that she stumbled on police at Bondi Beach 'checking everyone's ID for suburb compliance and asking to show you've got a mask with you'.

'If not, you get a $500 fine on the spot,' the woman said.

People commenting on the woman's post said they also saw police out enforcing the rule, along with the 10km limit.

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OFW 11

evil flourishes when good men do nothing

 

uncle's picture

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They were doing that

Fri, 2021-07-30 07:59

here on the last lockdown, checking 

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Noxious's picture

Posts: 504

Date Joined: 22/12/11

 Got my first jab of Pfizer

Tue, 2021-08-03 11:15

 Got my first jab of Pfizer last Wednesday - all good. Bit of a sore arm for about a day and that was it in terms of side effects. 

davewillo's picture

Posts: 2223

Date Joined: 08/09/16

 Got my second Pfizer 5G jab

Tue, 2021-08-03 12:59

 Got my second Pfizer 5G jab tomorrow. Wife had her second last week and no issues so hopefully I'm the same.

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 PGFC member and lure tragic

hezzy's picture

Posts: 1519

Date Joined: 27/11/09

interesting article cant

Thu, 2021-08-05 05:09

interesting article

cant help but wonder how much money is being made by big pharmacutical companys out of this vaccine program

money talks even in a human pandemic , and why the possible need for the 3rd jab in the rich , when the poor still wait ??

https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/world/who-tells-rich-countries-to-stop-giving-booster-vaccines/ar-AAMWdBk?ocid=msedgntp

The World Health Organisation has told rich countries to stop giving booster vaccinations to allow for more Covid-19 jabs to be distributed by poorer countries.

The UN health body said halting booster shots until at least the end of September would help ease the drastic inequity in dose distribution between rich and poor nations.

WHO chief Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus said that the move would help towards the goal of enabling 'at least 10 percent of the population of every country to be vaccinated'.

Global vaccine figures show that 84 percent of administered doses have gone into the arms of people in high and upper-middle-income countries. By contrast, just 0.3 percent of doses have been administered in low-income countries.

Despite the disparity between rich and poor countries, some nations that have better access to vaccines - such as the UK, Israel and Germany - are already either offering booster jabs, or signalling their intention to do so.

Pictured: An Israeli woman receives a third coronavirus vaccine injection at a senior center in Jerusalem, Wednesday, Aug. 4, 2021. The WHO has told rich countries to stop giving booster vaccinations to allow for more Covid-19 jabs to be distributed to poorer countries© Provided by Daily Mail Pictured: An Israeli woman receives a third coronavirus vaccine injection at a senior center in Jerusalem, Wednesday, Aug. 4, 2021. The WHO has told rich countries to stop giving booster vaccinations to allow for more Covid-19 jabs to be distributed to poorer countries
According to The Daily Telegraph, booster (or third) jabs are set to be offered to 32 million Britons starting as early as next month amid fears that the efficacy of the vaccine against Covid-19 and emerging variants could begin to decline.

Ministers are reportedly planning to deliver an average of 2.5 million third doses a week, beginning the first week of September, the newspaper said on Wednesday.

All adults aged 50 or over, as well as people that are immuno-suppressed - will be offered the booster jab, with pharmacies being drafted in to aid the roll-out.

The UK is not the only one. Israel last month began rolling out a booster shot for the over-60s, while Germany said Tuesday it would start offering third doses of the two-shot Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna vaccines from September.

The UN health agency has for months raged against the glaring and growing imbalance, branding it a moral outrage.

Tedros told a press conference that he understood why countries wanted to protect their citizens from the more transmissible Delta variant of the virus, which was first identified in India.

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OFW 11

evil flourishes when good men do nothing

 

sea-kem's picture

Posts: 14833

Date Joined: 30/11/09

 Meanwhile in Sydney an

Thu, 2021-08-05 05:21

 Meanwhile in Sydney an unvaccinated bloke in his 20's dies from COVID, literally just drops dead with no other underlying health issues. This is the stark reality of how deadly the virus can be. So it's a literal roll the dice situation for having it or not. 

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Faulkner Family's picture

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Date Joined: 11/03/08

 That's spot on . Even the

Thu, 2021-08-05 06:26

 That's spot on . Even the healthiest of people can become incapacitated for some time 

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RUSS and SANDY. A family that fishes together stays together

Posts: 8027

Date Joined: 07/05/12

I caught the flu when I was

Thu, 2021-08-05 09:03

I caught the flu when I was 24 and was extremely fit and training 5x/week and competing in martial arts and at uni studying health science but I have an underlying and under control issue in asthma.
 
I went from training on the Fri night to calling in sick to work on the Sat morning to being in intensive care on the Sunday afternoon. I had developed pneumonia that had rapidly developed in septic pneumonia and if it wasn’t for mum taking away my codeine meds forcing me to go to emergency with the severe pain I wouldn’t have lived through to Monday night according to the doctors.
 
What followed was a 7 day stint in intensive care on an antibiotic drip, losing 9kg and a long road back to full fitness and health. The upside was that my very attractive, younger training partner who I very much fancied came flying into hospital to see me and that planted the seed for what is now a 13y marriage with 3 great kids.
 
But anyway good luck to those that think that eating apples, washing their hands and getting a bit of sunshine is going to help with Covid morbidity and mortality.
 

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Officially off the Pies bandwagon

uncle's picture

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He just dropped dead,

Thu, 2021-08-05 07:17

as did my brother, maybe not related to covid, coroner told us people can just exspire 

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sea-kem's picture

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Date Joined: 30/11/09

 Ummm he had COVID Unc, 5

Thu, 2021-08-05 11:44

 Ummm he had COVID Unc, 5 deaths in 24 hours and 51 in ICU. It's not a good situation and only getting worse.

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uncle's picture

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Yeah I understand that

Thu, 2021-08-05 11:57

but do they look for a heart attact or similar?

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sea-kem's picture

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Date Joined: 30/11/09

 I have no doubt.

Thu, 2021-08-05 12:27

 I have no doubt.

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crasny1's picture

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Likely odds

Mon, 2021-08-09 07:46

 this unfortunate young man had fuminant coagulation (ie Clotting) which we see in severe Covid. It can happen in minutes and clot extremely fast and fulminant.

Also likely the removalist twins in NSW mother had a similar clotting event. 

Eventually we will know as the coroner is involved but NOBODY would tolerate suffocating to death at home.

Had to be one of the other Covid issues causing death, like clotting which is far far more common than any vaccine related clots.

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"I would like to die on Mars. Just not on impact!!" _ Elon Musk

sea-kem's picture

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 Thanks mate, what a way to

Mon, 2021-08-09 09:00

 Thanks mate, what a way to go ffs.

Had my second Astra jab Saturday, apart from a sore arm no other effects. 

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BlueKiaser's picture

Posts: 422

Date Joined: 22/04/15

Pfizer pushing 3rd dose

Thu, 2021-08-05 09:21

Two doses after 5 or 6 months is down to 16% effective (according to recent studies from Israel).

 

sea-kem's picture

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Date Joined: 30/11/09

 Maybe you could tell the

Thu, 2021-08-05 11:51

 Maybe you could tell the whole story :) 

https://www.timesofisrael.com/israels-severe-covid-cases-could-reach-400-by-mid-august-researchers-warn/

 

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BlueKiaser's picture

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Date Joined: 22/04/15

I recall

Thu, 2021-08-05 14:34

... mentioning that I believed these vaccines may not even be effective after 12 months and also pointed out that producers are recommending 3 doses within the first 12 months ... And you said that was pure speculation.

16% effective against Covid19 after 6 months (or less).
You can't have it both ways dude. Why are the producers pushing 3 doses (more like ongoing doses) if the vaccine is so effective???
I'm sure Pfizer is enjoying seeing their revenue double from year to year.

Meanwhile it looks likely that natural immunity from a previous wild Covid19 infection may provide lifetime immunity ... which is great news to those countries who are now getting above 50%+ natural immunity in some populations ... and yet their health authorities are still insisting they get vaccinated ... go figure.

sea-kem's picture

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Date Joined: 30/11/09

 Firstly at the time it was

Thu, 2021-08-05 16:01

 Firstly at the time it was pure speculation, you or I did not have any facts otherwise. 

And I just expanded on your previous comment that missed all the important bits by showing the whole article that actually mentions that the vaccine is still very effective.

How's natural immunity going Sydney? Or do you believe to let it run rampant and see what happens? If that's the case then the country will be shut down and go broke. 

I know I'm a simple 'dude' but I can see common sense a mile off. 

You champ are part of the problem by pushing your agenda, thankfully most people are doing the sensible thing. 

If you actually had a few medical credentials I might even listen to your ramblings but you're just a dude with an opinion just like me.

There are actually a couple of fellas on here who do, have commented and make the most logical sense. 

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BlueKiaser's picture

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Date Joined: 22/04/15

Struth

Thu, 2021-08-05 20:13

"You champ are part of the problem pushing your agenda" ... the power of propaganda and the comfort of being part of the mob.
What agenda exactly?
So your common sense tells you I have an agenda ... but ... what Bill Gates doesn't. The guy who brags about 20 to 1 returns on investments with vaccines.
And Pfizer who have doubled their yearly revenue from some $US40bn to $US80bn are what ... just doing gods work saving lives and I'm the devil with my agenda to stop them by drumming up an anti-vaccine cult in a fishing forum.

sea-kem's picture

Posts: 14833

Date Joined: 30/11/09

 What agenda lol, you can't

Thu, 2021-08-05 20:55

 What agenda lol, you can't even see past your own ego.

So tell me if there was no Covid would Pfizer be doubling their revenue? Surely you can work that one out........... 

 

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Date Joined: 07/05/12

So at worst the vaccine still

Thu, 2021-08-05 16:01

So at worst the vaccine still offers 16% effectiveness and then if you do get it months down the track once everything opens up that 16% is better than nothing and you end up with lifetime immunity?

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Officially off the Pies bandwagon

BlueKiaser's picture

Posts: 422

Date Joined: 22/04/15

No, that is your best case scenario

Thu, 2021-08-05 19:13

That 16% is at 5 or 6 months after the 2nd dose. A month earlier it was 44%. ... it gets lower quickly as the months tick on ... hence why you now need 3 doses, then 4 ... Line up, line up, get your freedom stamp in your vaccination passport.

Posts: 1998

Date Joined: 16/05/09

 And we are off and racing in

Thu, 2021-08-05 18:29

 And we are off and racing in the COVID cup, lets get another big box of popcorn going to see who can make it past the post before they expire............

davewillo's picture

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Date Joined: 08/09/16

 Had my second Pfizer

Thu, 2021-08-05 10:11

 Had my second Pfizer yesterday afternoon. So far so good!

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 PGFC member and lure tragic

Darren253's picture

Posts: 570

Date Joined: 23/07/16

Double jabbed with PZ.... No

Thu, 2021-08-05 11:38

Double jabbed with PZ.... No side effects! Happy days...

Beer, Whiskey and BBQ are more likely to cause me long term issues than any side effects from the jab, and i happily make that choice week after week also 

BlueKiaser's picture

Posts: 422

Date Joined: 22/04/15

Under 50s

Thu, 2021-08-05 15:00

Using Australia's latest stats, if you are under 50 your CFR (Case Fatality Rate) is still less than 1 in a 1,000.
(Under 40 population is 2 in 10,000. Under 30 population is less than 1 in 10,000 ... less chance than dying in a car accident each year travelling 20k).

I again post these age demographic stats because I just don't understand why our authorities around the world are pushing all age demographics to be vaccinated.
Like Influenza, we are not likely to eradicate Covid19 from our population in the near future so why are we so determined to move towards a situation where most of our population will be pressured in to getting a vaccine that offers them little protection, and comes with greater risks than our other widely accepted vaccines.

Faulkner Family's picture

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Date Joined: 11/03/08

 Why not just stand under a

Thu, 2021-08-05 16:01

 Why not just stand under a coconut palm and take our chances of not getting hit on the head by one falling. They say there is more deaths that way than shark attacks. 

 I am getting my second jab next week , not taking chances

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RUSS and SANDY. A family that fishes together stays together

davewillo's picture

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 Had mine yesterday Russ and

Thu, 2021-08-05 17:24

 Had mine yesterday Russ and no issues so far. 

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 PGFC member and lure tragic

Faulkner Family's picture

Posts: 17835

Date Joined: 11/03/08

 Hope I go the same way. Got

Thu, 2021-08-05 21:52

 Hope I go the same way. Got a truck to unload after my second jab then deliveries all day the next 2 days with another truck to unload in amongst it

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RUSS and SANDY. A family that fishes together stays together

davewillo's picture

Posts: 2223

Date Joined: 08/09/16

 I'm 2 days past now so it

Fri, 2021-08-06 11:03

 I'm 2 days past now so it looks like I got away without side effects. Besides the 5G and Bill Gates etc.................

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 PGFC member and lure tragic

hezzy's picture

Posts: 1519

Date Joined: 27/11/09

lets go for five pages lol

Fri, 2021-08-06 19:46

lets go for five pages lol

good read here ,, this lady has some valid points i believe ,, especially in regards to the increase in childrens allergies and other health issue which is on the rise ,,

https://www.vaccinationdecisions.net/about-us/

About Judy Wilyman
I have been studying the vaccination topic both formally and informally since 1993 when I vaccinated my first child. Like most people questioning vaccines, I have not come from an anti-vaccination position and the debate is not about pro- or anti-vaccination. It is about the safety, efficacy and necessity for each vaccine on the schedule. Are they all safe? And are they all effective and necessary?

In 2015 I completed a PhD at the University of Wollongong answering these questions. My thesis is titled ‘A critical analysis of the Australian Government’s rationale for its vaccination policy.’ In Chapter 7 I present a discussion of the claims made by the government about the safety and efficacy of vaccines that are not supported by scientific evidence. Here is a link to this Chapter titled “The Evidence Underpinning Claims about Vaccines”

My book that is based on my PhD research titled “Australia’s Loss of Health Freedom” is now available to buy.

After completing this in-depth research I am promoting the right for this medical intervention to remain a free and informed choice, without the financial coercion that the Australian government implemented into social services policies in 2016. Here is a link to a pamphlet that summarises the four main themes of my PhD thesis – A Summary of Dr. Judy Wilyman’s PhD Thesis.

I have adopted this position because the government has not provided evidence to support the claim that all of the recommended vaccines are necessary or that they have been proven safe and effective using proper placebo controlled clinical trials. The Australian government is making claims about the safety and efficacy of vaccines that are unsupported by hard scientific evidence. That is, using true ‘inert’ placebos in safety trials.

In December 2020 in response to the false and misleading information provided by the health department and the media about a global pandemic of a new flu-like illness called COVID19 disease, I joined with doctors and lawyers to set up the company People for Safe Vaccines so we could make a legal challenge of the “science” that the government is using to claim that there is a public health emergency. This declaration of a pandemic has enabled government’s globally to remove human rights and to implement directives that are destroying the health of the population.

I have also joined with Vaccine Choice Australia (VCA) to assist in providing education to the community about the history of the control of infectious diseases. Currently VCA is touring Australia to speak with communities about the political actions we can take to restore democracy in Australia to ensure that the people’s voice is represented in government policies. Here is a link to the Stand Up Now Australia Tour that will be coming to your community soon.

In 2007 I also completed a Master of Science (Population Health) in the Faculty of Health at UOW and this included a major research project on the use of the whooping cough vaccine to control whooping cough in Australia. My research demonstrated that the whooping cough vaccine was introduced after the significant decline of deaths and serious illness to whooping cough in Australia (1950) and that many vaccinated children are still getting whooping cough. Here is a link to this research titled “An Analysis of the Federal Government’s Pertussis (Whooping Cough) Immunisation Policy“.

I have also provided a link to a summary of this research that was published in the Public Health Association of Australia’s (PHAA) newsletter in April 2009 – An Analysis of Whooping Cough Incidence: Is the vaccine effective? Whilst Peter McIntyre, director of the government’s vaccination research and surveillance unit (NCIRS), published a comment beside my referenced article with claims countering the evidence I presented, he did not provide a fully referenced copy of his claims made in the PHAA newsletter in 2009.

The University of Wollongong published my PhD thesis on its website in January 2016 but prior to publication it requested that I remove 3 Appendix’s before publication. UOW cited ‘copyright reasons’ for this request. However, these Appendix’s contained publicly available information and when I challenged the University the decision was reversed and it published the full thesis in March 2016. The information that UOW wished to remove included Appendix 1: The Ingredients of Vaccines (Reference: The Australian Immunisation Handbook (Ed 9 and 10), Appendix 2: Case Study on Thimerosal (Mercury compound) in Vaccines and Appendix 3: The Australian Government NIP (Reference: Australian Government’s Immunise Australia Program (IAP) website (2013).

The potential financial Conflicts of Interest (COI) were also removed from my thesis even though the government is required to publicise these interests on their website. Many government representatives on vaccine policy advisory boards have COI with pharmaceutical companies. This includes the chairman of the Australian Technical Advisory Group on Immunisation (ATAGI) from 2005 – 2014, Terry Nolan, and the directors of the National Centre of Immunisation Research and Surveillance (NCIRS) from 2004 – 2015, Robert Booy and Peter McIntyre. The public is entitled to be informed that these potential COI exist for individuals who directly advise the government on policy. The COI for members of the Australian government’s vaccine advisory boards were not presented on the government website until 2015 after parents pressured the government to publish them.

During the last decade I have attempted to debate my academic research but the media will not report the other side of the vaccination debate. Whilst attempting to debate my research in public forums since 2010 I have been attacked by consumer lobby groups, in particular the Australian Skeptics Inc and the Stop the Australian Vaccination Network (SAVN). Another lobby group is the Friends of Science in Medicine.

Many of these lobby groups are not scientific organisations, e.g. the Australian Skepitics Inc and SAVN, and they promote industry interests in vaccination policies by misrepresenting academic research to the public. This has been documented in many articles by my supervisor, Brian Martin. Here is a link to one of his articles summarising these attacks: ‘Judy Wilyman, PhD: how to understand attacks on a research student.’ Media censorship on this issue is also preventing proper debate of this health issue in Australia. Here is a letter that I sent to the president of the Human Rights Commission (Gillian Trigg), in September 2015, before the government implemented mandatory vaccination policies in its Social Welfare Bill. The Human Rights Commission did not answer this letter.

Further, in 2015 the Minister for Health, Sussan Ley, and the Minister for Social Services, Christian Porter, would not attend a public forum to present the reasons for the necessity for the No Jab No Pay legislation that was implemented in Australia January 2016.

Qualifications
I have a Bachelor of Science degree and I have practised as a science teacher for 20 years. In 2004 I began researching this public health issue at the University of Wollongong (UOW). I completed a Master of Science degree (Population Health) in the Faculty of Health and Behavioural Sciences in 2007.This included a research project analysing the Australian Government’s Policy on Whooping Cough. In 2007 I continued my research with a PhD. The University of Wollongong would not provide supervisors in the Faculty of Health for this project. It was recommended that the PhD be completed in the area of Science and Technology Studies in the Humanities because of the politics involved in vaccination policies.

In 2008 – 2010 I transferred to the Environmental Science Department at Murdoch University to research and lecture in environmental health issues. I transferred back to Wollongong University in 2011 to complete my PhD investigating the Australian government’s reasons for its current National Immunisation Program (NIP). My PhD includes an examination of the science in the government’s vaccination policy and a critique of the influences in the decision to use an increasing number of vaccines in children.

Motivation for this Research
I have 3 children – 2 vaccinated and 1 unvaccinated. My motivation for investigating the government’s vaccination policies was the increase in chronic illness in children that teachers were observing in the nineties as the government continued to increase the number of vaccines on the national immunisation schedule. This correlation is described in the poster that I presented to health professionals at the Australian National Health Promotion Conference in Perth in 2009. Whilst a correlation is not proof of causation it is important that this association is investigated before governments recommend an increasing number of vaccines to children in public health policies.

Please note that it has also become necessary for me to address the way lobby groups are using social media websites and the mainstream media to present disinformation about my research to the public. Many of these lobby groups are funded by industry and are promoting industry interests. The information I am providing on this website is academic research for public debate to ensure that decisions made on health are supported in the medical literature.

Many lobby groups are disparaging researchers reputations and not debating the scientific issues. This has been documented on the Lobby Group page of my website. This website is set up to present an academic debate of vaccination (free of emotional arguments) and it contains information that will be presented for the completion of a PhD. The information has also been published and presented in peer-reviewed journals and at academic conferences. The science in public health policies should not be selective and consumers must be involved in debating these issues.

Vaccinating in Australia
Whilst the government claims that vaccination in Australia is not compulsory there is pressure placed on parents to use 11 vaccines before a child is 1 year of age. The pressure placed on parents/adults to vaccinate is in the form of financial incentives, childcare places and employment. It is also strongly emphasised that it is each person’s responsibility to vaccinate for the community good. The financial incentive for “fully” vaccinating a child was increased on 1 July 2012 to $2,100. At the same time the government introduced 3 new vaccines to the national immunisation program (NIP) and stated that these vaccines were now necessary to receive the benefit. To choose not to vaccinate (or to selectively vaccinate) and still obtain the welfare benefit parents are required to get a doctor’s signature. In some states since 2014 a doctor’s signature has also become necessary to enrol in childcare centres and for employees to work in some institutions yet doctors are being told by the Australian Medical Association (AMA) that they do not have to sign these forms.

In other words, instead of doctor’s requiring parental consent to administer vaccines (a medical procedure) parents are required to get a doctor’s signature to refuse this medical procedure. This is an infringement of our human rights and bodily integrity.

In Australia vaccination is not compulsory but the government is pressuring parents to use more and more vaccines without discussing the ingredients of vaccines. The ingredients and the side-effects of vaccines require public debate for inclusion in public health policies yet the Australian public has been excluded from the decision-making process. Like all drugs the risks of vaccines increase with every vaccine that is used and no vaccine can be used without side-effects in some individuals.

This website has been set up because there are many community members concerned about the number of vaccines parents are being asked to use in their children and the information that is being provided to the public. I believe vaccination should be a personal choice requiring the individual’s consent after being fully informed of the risks – as is required for all medical procedures. Pressuring individuals to use a medical procedure is an infringement of human rights (the International Bill of Human Rights applies to all countries). Vaccination in Australia should be promoted to the public on the risks and benefits of the procedure and not tied to financial incentives or workplace requirements.

In the 1990’s I became aware of the significant increase in chronic illness that was occurring in children. By 2004, 41% of children (0 -14 years of age) had a chronic illness 1. The diseases that have been increasing since the late 80’s include allergies, anaphylaxis, ADHD, autism, coeliac disease, cancer and autoimmune diseases (e.g. arthritis and diabetes). The medical journals and animal studies link the ingredients of vaccines as a cause of these diseases. Although the increase in these diseases correlates to the increasing use of vaccines, the government has not funded research that would prove or disprove this plausible link. The Australian government claims it is a coincidence that these diseases have increased with the increasing use of vaccines but does not provide scientific-evidence to support this statement.

Reference:

1. Australian Government, Australian Bureau of Statistics (ABS),

4829.0.55.001 Health of children in Australia: A Snapshot, 2004-05 [/pane]

Qualifications

1982: University of NSW, Bachelor of Science Degree
1986: Wollongong University, Diploma of Education (Science)
2007: Wollongong University (Health and Behavioural Sciences Department), Master of Science (Population Health) | Research Project (Partial fulfilment of the degree of Master of Science): An Analysis of the Australian Government’s Vaccination Policy on Whooping Cough: High Distinction
2008 – 2011: Murdoch University (Environmental Science Department) and Wollongong University, research and teaching.
2011 – December 2015: Researching a PhD at the University of Wollongong (School of Humanities and Social Inquiry). [/pane]

How a Healthy Person became a Case of Disease in 2020-21
Interviews with Dr. Judy Wilyman
Nobel Prize Laureate 1960 Sir Frank MacFarlane Burnet and DFAT
COVID19 Vaccines are Causing Blood Clotting in the Majority of Tested Patients
The WHO Declares all PCR Tests at High CT to be Potentially 100% False Positives.
Copyright © 2021 · Vaccination Decisions on Genesis Framework · Wo

____________________________________________________________________________

OFW 11

evil flourishes when good men do nothing

 

Posts: 33

Date Joined: 06/12/16

Thanks Hezzy

Sat, 2021-08-07 08:45

 Very interesting information.

hezzy's picture

Posts: 1519

Date Joined: 27/11/09

polio vaccine is often quoted

Sun, 2021-08-08 09:23

polio vaccine is often quoted as a no brainer in why vaccines are all good ,,

food for thought as we go for 5 pages on it below ,

polio vaccine taking years to get the process right from starting in 1938, to, 1950 having one then 5 years of testing from 1950-1955 before release to use it, then up to 1961, to get the right mix ,,

the cutter incident is not agood example for sure ,,,

https://www.weirtondailytimes.com/news/local-news/2021/01/a-look-back-at-mass-polio-vaccinations-of-50s-60s/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1383764/

____________________________________________________________________________

OFW 11

evil flourishes when good men do nothing

 

BlueKiaser's picture

Posts: 422

Date Joined: 22/04/15

black or white ... sometimes grey

Sun, 2021-08-08 18:42

When I see people quote polio as proof of vaccines it tells me that they have done little research themselves about the history of polio.
Even in recent years we still have vaccine derived polio being discovered in places that have been classified as polio free.

My point is sometimes it is not as simple as a black or white case of good or bad.
Sometimes history shows some particular vaccines have not been as beneficial as we have been led to believe.

 

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just throwing some of these

Sun, 2021-08-08 21:49

just throwing some of these links up for general info , people can read and make of them what they will ,

A fully-vaccinated Sydney woman who is seeking to visit her daughter undergoing chemotherapy in Melbourne has been denied a compassionate exemption request by Victoria Health.

https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/other/fully-vaccinated-woman-s-compassionate-exemption-rejected-by-vic-health/ar-AAN4076?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531

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Tue, 2021-08-10 07:39

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 I like that Frosty! Dude

Tue, 2021-08-10 11:24

 I like that Frosty! Dude needs to get his neck sorted too!

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Nothing a couple of apples,

Tue, 2021-08-10 12:30

Nothing a couple of apples, washing his hands regularly and getting some sunlight can't fix mate 

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 The last two paragraphs of

Tue, 2021-08-10 14:38

 The last two paragraphs of the Cutter article very relevant to this thread. 

The Cutter incident had an ambivalent legacy. On the one hand, it led to the effective federal regulation of vaccines, which today enjoy a record of safety `unmatched by any other medical product'. On the other hand, the court ruling that Cutter was liable to pay compensation to those damaged by its polio vaccine—even though it was not found to be negligent in its production—opened the floodgates to a wave of litigation. As a result, `vaccines were among the first medical products almost eliminated by lawsuits'. Indeed, the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program was introduced in 1986 to protect vaccine manufacturers from litigation on a scale that threatened the continuing production of vaccines. Still, many companies have opted out of this low-profit, high-risk field, leaving only a handful of firms to meet a growing demand (resulting in recent shortages of flu and other vaccines).

The contemporary climate of risk aversion and predatory litigation deters the introduction of new vaccines and discourages innovation in a field which boasts some of the most impressive achievements of modern medicine. To protect vaccine development—and ultimately public health —Offit proposes that the option of suing vaccine manufacturers should be stopped and that compensation should only be available through the official programme.

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this proposal makes sense imo

Tue, 2021-08-10 04:41

this proposal makes sense imo

GPs call for 'no-fault' compensation scheme around AstraZeneca vaccine delivery

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-08-10/covid-19-vaccine-indemnity-scheme-not-yet-resolved/100363498

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 Dr Munoz goes alright :P

Tue, 2021-08-10 05:48

 Dr Munoz goes alright :P

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Dr Munoz goes alright :P

Tue, 2021-08-10 08:15

Time for your prostate check Andy?

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Tap

Tue, 2021-08-10 08:35

Haha, the old tap dog, always prowling.

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Trying to get to 5 pages

Tue, 2021-08-10 13:28

"Dr" Wilyman (not a medical doctor) and her thesis is not held in high regard by a number of professionals, and you can find the relevant criticism simply by using google.  Try Sciblogs, Unsound vaccine thesis or how to review a PhD, Life in the Fast Lane, The wilyman Phd, Judith Wilyman - Wikipedia, and the list goes on.  Stood for the senate in WA for the informed medical opinions party in 2019.  Most of the information that I could find that wasn't written by her is not very flattering, and her thesis and how she got it is questioned by many.  She has been an antivaxxer for a very long time, totally biased in her opinions.  I think I would rather trust my own judgement and medical training.

 

 

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big pharma love to discredit

Wed, 2021-08-11 02:53

big pharma love to discredit and white any anyone who has an alternative view wagyl ,, just saying ,,dont think she can be labeled as an anti vaxer , she openly states she has had vaccines and her kids ,, ,, i believe the lady has a valid point in regards to kids under 1 having 11 vaccinations , and the possibility of it causing a rise in allergies etc ,, worth future investigation imo ,,

its not unusual , most big multi nationals have a habit of putting fronts up to push or attack ,, look at andrew forrest collaboration with jessicca meuwigg for example ,
oil , gas coal , banks , insurance, medical there all working behind the scenes

they get involved in the big politics and lobby to get their agenda over the line ,,

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 344 new cases in NSW , 2

Wed, 2021-08-11 13:17

 344 new cases in NSW , 2 more have died. 

Second jab done and dusted. 

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 Hopefully no side effects

Wed, 2021-08-11 14:50

 Hopefully no side effects Russ.

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 3 hours down and out doing

Wed, 2021-08-11 16:10

 3 hours down and out doing deliveries.  Hopefully all good 

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 And here's a first world 

Thu, 2021-08-12 13:59

 And here's a first world  state on it's knees because morons won't vaccinate.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/11/us/covid-texas-hospitalizations-icu.html?smtyp=cur&smid=fb-nytimes&fbclid=IwAR2yEiks6gllXPZ0riodJ_Xqo9U3wpb3oMTcdvw21dtOd1GNjZoexrJtAo8

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 But Andy , its all a big

Sat, 2021-08-14 08:05

 But Andy , its all a big hoax lol. 

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According to the latest CDC

Sat, 2021-08-14 11:34

According to the latest CDC figures, 53,7% of eligible Texans — those who are at least 12 years old — are considered fully vaccinated compared to 51% for the whole of the USA.

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unintended consequences

Wed, 2021-08-18 04:45

unintended consequences

Breast cancer support groups have raised concerns that women could die from preventable cancer if they are denied long term access to routine BreastScreen mammogram appointments.

Key points:
All BreastScreen centres have stopped taking appointments for later this year
Health officials say it is to protect patients and to redirect staff to help with the pandemic response
Advocates are worried a drop in preventative diagnosis could lead to avoidable breast cancer deaths
Centres across New South Wales and the Australian Capital Territory have been closed due to coronavirus outbreaks and there is no indication when they will reopen.

The Breast Cancer Network Australia has raised concerns about the decision and director of policy and advocacy Vicki Durston said it could have dire consequences.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-08-18/breastscreen-pause-mammograms-nsw-act-covid-lockdowns/100384924

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evil flourishes when good men do nothing

 

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 UK data out

Wed, 2021-08-18 07:27

 UK data out recently.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1001354/Variants_of_Concern_VOC_Technical_Briefing_17.pdf

Look at the table on page 14. 50 dead from 7235 fully vaccinated vs 44 dead from 53822 unvaccinated. Fatality rate of 0.691% in the fully vaccinated group vs 0.0817% in the unvaccinated group.

While the fatality rate in the fully vaccinated group is lower than the flu fatality rate in Australia in 2019, it is still over 800% higher than the unvaccinated group. It is data like this that causes concern regarding the vaccines among those ready to look at the information rather than listen to the narrative.

At this stage the vaccine trial is not looking good.

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 Try again mate. 117 is a

Wed, 2021-08-18 08:00

 

Try again mate.
 
117 is a grossly insignificant sample size for the period 1 February 2021 to 21 June 2021 considering England is currently seeing 502 deaths per week.
 
The report also makes no mention of underlying health issues co-contributing to death in the fully vaccinated group who at present make up a significant majority of vaccinated people.

 

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Hiding realworld data

Wed, 2021-08-18 14:24

Yeah, KalSteve is on to it.
Those England technical briefings are one of the rare places left where they are actually reporting breakthrough cases data.
The majority of the world is doing their best to keep that sort of information away from the public eye.

Remember all the Pfizer vaccine claims of 94%+ efficacy ... 6 months after their 2nd doses in Israel, they are just 16% against Delta.
I wonder just how many people would have been running out there to get their shot if they were told that to be over 50% protected against infection for about 10 months of each year they need at least 3 shots ... that doesn't sound quite as impressive as 94%+ does it?

Ct studies of viral loads in positive Covid19 vaccinated and unvaccinated patients are showing no significant difference indicating that once positive, they are both equally as transmissable.

So now most of the talk about the reasons to vaccinate have moved to how it prevents serious illness and death ... but again, real world data like that shown in the fortnightly England Technical briefings are suggesting that claims of 90%+ effectiveness against illness and death is also going to be shown to be propaganda BS.
Why do you think the US CDC decided to stop recording breakthrough cases. Very few Health departments across the USA are willing to provide any data on this topic.
The Delta variant by it's very nature appears to be about 10% as fatal as earlier variants like Alpha.
That makes it very easy for authorities to make people think that the vaccines are reducing deaths.

Remember, these "vaccines" (and I use that term very loosely), were only given Emergency use approval (or as our TGA prefers to call it, provisional) because of their claimed effectiveness and their claims there was no other options availalble. Yet there are heaps of other therapeutics now being shown to be more effective (over 80%), cheaper and readily available ... if only they weren't being suppressed by the same authorities pushing the mass vaccinations and this whole hoax that the vaccines will get us back to normal.

The new normal is what they want, where everybody needs a green card or vaccine passport to travel and do anything.
And with every lockdown, every $billions/$trillions rescue package, they move one step closer to their desired Great Reset.

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Wed, 2021-08-18 12:23

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Someone cut your xmas tree in

Wed, 2021-08-18 13:26

Someone cut your xmas tree in half Andy?

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Thanks sea-kem

Wed, 2021-08-18 14:05

Exactly as i said ... "The Delta variant by it's very nature appears to be about 10% as fatal as earlier variants like Alpha.
That makes it very easy for authorities to make people think that the vaccines are reducing deaths.
"

Do you not see that infections/cases are the same, meaning the vaccines aren't as effective as you have been conned in to thinking, so now they move the goalposts to deaths, because Delta is not as deadly. Go and have a look at the CFR (Case Fatality Rates) before and after mass vaccinations in countries with Delta and try to spot the difference.

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 No bud I haven't been conned

Wed, 2021-08-18 14:13

 No bud I haven't been conned just reading the facts as I see them. From what you are saying that all the medical authorities in the world are part of some big conspiracy? Tell me you're joking. 

Shouldn't you be building your bunker for the great reset than wasting time on a fishing forum

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End game

Wed, 2021-08-18 15:05

I don't understand what you believe, other than you possibly believing you are in the safe hands of your trusted government and health authorities around the world.

I believe there is enough evidence out there now to clearly show that highly vaccinated countries are not stopping the spread of Covid19.
What happened to the original story that we needed the lockdowns to "flatten the curve"?
Then we needed the vaccines.
Then we needed 70% herd immunity.
Then 70% isn't enough, now it's 80%.
And even then lockdowns will still be used as required.
And countries with mass vaccinations now need more vaccinations, more boosters, more doses.
And green cards and vaccine passports and mandatory vaccinations.

You do understand that the Great Reset is the name that global leaders of recent World Economic Forums choose to use?

If you need to take name calling shots at somebody to sleep better, rather than debate the points they make, then go for it.
I was taught at a very young age that once people start going the insults and character attacks, they are showing they are losing their points of argument and I've found that to be generally true.


 

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Yep.

Wed, 2021-08-18 16:00

Yep.

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keep it up reckon we can

Wed, 2021-08-18 14:52

keep it up

reckon we can get this to 5 pages any day now ,, lol

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I’m hoping for a thousand comments.

Thu, 2021-08-19 12:50

Looks like shits getting beyond real in NSW at the moment. I've just paid another years worth of boat storage in C'von as I've got a snowflakes chance in Hell of getting back to West Oz before Christmas. By then it's going to be too hot to drive across the top with the big duck. May as well wait till next year.  

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tip of the iceberg on how

Wed, 2021-08-18 19:19

tip of the iceberg on how this whole situation is affecting peoples lives ,,

A Victorian woman slapped with a suspended jail term and criminal record for having a picnic with her dying father while subject to quarantine rules has won an appeal to have her sentence reduced.

https://www.watoday.com.au/national/western-australia/victorian-woman-given-jail-term-for-visiting-dying-father-in-wa-wins-appeal-20210818-p58jrf.html?fbclid=IwAR23KhLlAiHbmdCEH0F26nxkWDj4jwUJn6tPuNF__1V9-it3meO9VcUorLs

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interesting read below from

Thu, 2021-08-19 05:36

interesting read below from abc ... no mention of travel insurance in all that ,,, which imo is a must before we would go overseas , regardless of vacination or not ,,

SCIENCE
COVID-19 vaccine passports: When international borders open, how will global travel work?

https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2021-08-19/covid-19-vaccine-passports-international-travel-borders/100383630

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So, what do we know?

Thu, 2021-08-19 12:57

We know that there is a bloody awful virus circulating, that seems to knock off a reasonable percentage of those that get it, and affects a much higher percentage with debilitating long term side effects.

We know that there is now a more contageous strain circulating than the one previously, and there is the possibility of other strains getting to us in the future.

We know that there are a lot of people who believe this is a conspiracy, that the virus doesn't exist, or that it does but vaccines don't work, or that it is brough upon us by Big Pharma or the World Economic Forum, or Batman, or that a variety of groups are varying vaccine results to make a big quid.

Really, I don 't give a s**t.  You have a right to believe what you want, express your ideas, its a somewhat free country.  For those knockers, conspiracy theorists etc, please take your family and go and catch Covid and prove your point, just like Dr Marshall did with Helicobacter.

Form you own opinions, but please don't push them down others peoples throats, you may do some serious harm. 

For me, I am over 70, have had 45 years experience in the pharmacy industry, I believe this virus exists, I don't want the damn thing or if I do get it, I want its effects minimised.  What choices do I have?  None other than the vaccines that are available, which may give me a good chance of not getting long term effects or death.  I view the vaccine as being better than nothing at all, and it may in fact be as good as the "Big Pharma" represents.

Apart from being a doomsday prepper, what other choices do we have, so please make positive contributions and spend your time finding an answer to the problem, not just knocking what options we do have.

Are we at Page 5 yet??????????????????

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What do we really know?

Thu, 2021-08-19 16:56

Interesting post Wagyl.

There is a real virus called Covid19 or Sars Cov 2 circulating. The media are certainly saying long and loud that it is terrible and is killing a lot of people. Look for yourself at the numbers in Australia. Please, actually look at the numbers of cases and deaths this year, and last year. Also have a look at the number of flu cases and deaths in 2019. These numbers are all available. If you won't look for yourself, the flu killed about 1200 in 2019, covid killed 909 in 2020 and has killed 63 so far this year. 

Covid is certainly mutating. The latest Delta strain appears to be infecting a significant number of fully vaccinated people as well as the unvaccinated. It also appears to be killing less of the infected than previous strains, both vaccinated and unvaccinated.

I don't wish to have the vaccine at this stage and don't want my children to have it either due to a number of reasons including the significant serious adverse reaction rates of the covid vaccines (many times higher than other common vaccines), the apparent inefficiacy of the vaccines to the latest variants and several other reasons related to my research on the subject. You would label some of them as conspiracy theories but in my observation an astounding amout of conspiracy theories have turned out to be actual conspiracies in recent years. 

Of course I don't want myself or my loved ones to get covid. Neither do I want us to get the flu and from what I can see the risk is similar. I am not terrified of covid like so many are. Yes it could kill me. I know many more people who have died from the flu than from covid. I don't live in fear of either.

Have you considered that you are pushing your opinion down other people's throats just as much as anyone else expressing an opinion on here. What if someone takes your advice to heart, has the vaccine and suffers a serious adverse reaction? Would you have done them "some serious harm"?

Being over 70, you are in the age group that probably should have the vaccine, just as per the flu. For those under 50 the risk/benefit ratio is far less clear.

You ask what other choices we have. Given you have worked in the pharmacy industry for a significant time, surely you must have heard of Ivermectin and Hydroxychloroquine? Do you regard these as safe drugs? Have you seen the results of clinical trials of combination therapies using these drugs to prevent and treat covid? Are you aware the government has banned the use of these combination therapies for prophylaxis in Australia?

Page 5 must be here soon...

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Covid relatively more lethal so far

Thu, 2021-08-19 17:25

 Yep, more deaths from flu in absolute numbers, but total flu cases in Oz were about 310,000 in 2019. Worst year ever.  If 1200 deaths came from that, then when you look at Covid, with about 40,000 cases total and over 900 deaths, it seems clear that Covid is several times more lethal. Each to their own, but for me the Covid virus is a much bigger risk.

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 To me it's a matter of

Thu, 2021-08-19 14:34

 To me it's a matter of deciding what your fear most, the virus or the vaccine, and then acting accordingly.

Personally I fear the virus a a hell of a lot more than I fear an occassional jab in the arm.

Second jab booked for next week, and if I need ongoing boosters so be it.

 

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Seems you may be fudging

Thu, 2021-08-19 17:58

Seems you may be fudging figures to suit your argument Kalsteve.

You compared 2019 flu deaths to 2020 covid deaths, why didn't you compare the 2020 deaths for both ?

Figures I have show 36 flu deaths in Australia for 2020 (902 deaths for 2019, not the "about 1200" you quoted) and NO flu deaths for 2021.

This is from the National Notifiable Disease Surveillance System, not from from some crackpot antivax website.

See the link:

https://www1.racgp.org.au/newsgp/clinical/australia-records-zero-flu-deaths-over-past-12-mon

But of course antivaxxers never let the truth get in the way of their bullshit...................

 

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Thu, 2021-08-19 18:35

 

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Plenty of fudged figures available

Fri, 2021-08-20 07:48

Stickface, there are plenty of fudged figures available but I try to only look at official sources.

As you would know if you looked at the available official data, the numbers vary a bit due to different reporting periods and criteria. My 1200 estimate for 2019 flu deaths is a pretty accurate estimate for the 2019 calendar year based on official data available earlier this year. If I was giving a more exact estimate it would be about 1190. It is getting a bit harder to find the numbers these days but I certainly didn't get them from any "crackpot antivax website".

https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/health/causes-death/causes-death-australia/latest-release says 4124 flu and pneumonia deaths in 2019, doesnt show 2020 deaths.

I can see you probably got your 902 covid deaths from https://www.immunisationcoalition.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/1-Barr-ASM-2020-presentation.pdf . If you read the notes below the table showing influenza related death numbers you may understand why the actual 2019 flu deaths is likely higher than the number in the report. Only data up to 1/12/2019 for a start, then other issues as stated.

There are other factors introducing doubt as to the reported covid death numbers. Have you seen the criteria to record a death as covid related Australia in 2020? Have a look, it might help you understand why the flu deaths disappeared so quickly last year. For a start here is the ABS guideline. https://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/mf/1205.0.55.001 For more information see if you can find the individual state guidelines from last year.

As for international death numbers, there was an interesting report published and then retracted by John Hopkins University late last year. Strangely, it wasn't withdrawn because it was incorrect and there is significant pushback from the academic community regarding it's withdrawal. Have a read of this article for some detail. https://campusreform.org/?id=16463

Now see if you can find accurate reported numbers of vaccine related deaths in Australia. At this stage it looks like there have been 7 Astrazeneca deaths so far but Pfizer numbers are less clear. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-08-05/nsw-woman-becomes-australia-seventh-astrazeneca-related-death/100354032

From what I see if they used similar criteria for vaccine related deaths to what they are using to classify a covid death, the reported vaccine related deaths would be significantly higher. There seem to be a lot of anecdotal reports of relatives dying from strokes within a couple of weeks post vaccine. In order to be classified a vaccine related death is appears the deceased has to have had a massive clotting issue. Please think about this.

I am not an antivaxxer. I am up to date with all of my vaccines and will continue to have my regular tetanus booster shots. I fully support DTP and MMR vaccines and all vaccines for diseases causing serious risk where the vaccine has proven its clinical worth in properly executed trials.

I don't blindly trust government or corporations and will look at available information to make informed decisions, particularly on issues that can have such a large effect on my health and the health of my loved ones.

Have you ever considered the mountains of evidence that government and large corporations never let the truth get in the way of their bullshit?

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You seem to be spending an

Fri, 2021-08-20 09:01

You seem to be spending an inordinate amount of time scouring the net to let us all know your personal reasons for not taking a Covid shot. Been for a flick lately?

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Hi Jack

Fri, 2021-08-20 09:26

 Yes I have done a fair bit of research on this as I think it's fairly important.

Haven't been fishing for about a month now, need to be in casting distance of water for that. I might get a line in next weekend if I'm lucky.

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 Boils down to this mate, a

Fri, 2021-08-20 09:45

 Boils down to this mate, a roll of the dice for when we get Delta here. Have the vaccine with it's minimal risks or get Covid with it's major risks of death and or long term illness. No roll of the dice for me as it's a no brainer. 

And we can all go fishing. 

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 For what its worth i have an

Thu, 2021-08-19 20:52

 For what its worth i have an elderly relative in hospital after taking her vaccine. She is old but this may be the last straw for her. If she hadn't have taken the vaccine i guess she'd still be in her lounge chair safe and sound. Food for thought i guess.

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Date Joined: 25/08/15

I received

Thu, 2021-08-19 22:46

 a fish vaccince years ago, havnt caught shit since!

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Fri, 2021-08-20 06:07

 

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 Very funny! I have certainly

Fri, 2021-08-20 10:39

 Very funny! I have certainly had my first dose 

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 Each to their own but I'm

Fri, 2021-08-20 10:39

 Each to their own but I'm just amazed how many people think their keyboard research trumps the thousands of actual professionals doing real research in the labs and hospitals. Can anyone tell me how and why so many unlinked and unrelated people would want to perpetuate a COVID hoax as suggested? I'm no genius but it makes zero sense to me! 

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Not mutually exclusive

Fri, 2021-08-20 12:32

I believe a topic like Covid19 easily becomes an emotionally invested conversation, which leads people to pick sides, become tribal, and talk in absolutes.

This is relevant because, I don't think many people believe Covid is just a hoax. I don't.
But I do strongly believe it is being used as a tool by established globalist powers to restrict our freedoms and bring about other actions that help those powerful people far more than it helps the likes of you or i.

Do they need 1000's of professionals doing research to sign up on their possibly nefarious agendas ... no they don't?

The majority of people just want to be able to go about their lives, do their jobs and provide for themselves and their families.
For example, if you are currently an active police person in NSW being asked to fine and arrest people for not wearing a mask, it's irrelevant whether you believe masks work or not, you'll generally just do what you are told to do.

One of the USA Dr's that I have listened to about the dangers of Covid19 vaccines explained how many Doctor's (like himself) leave medical school with a $350k medical school loan. They sign a contract with a typical big hospital in the US where they agree to work for 10years for that hospital. On completion of 10 years, they get their medical loan fully paid out. If the relationship with that hospital and Dr becomes untennable prior to that 10 years, then tough luck for the Dr and his $350 loan.
Obviously, this means you will have a large number of USA Dr's aligning to the wishes of their employers.

And you have no idea just how often I find a Dr in the news pushing vaccines or working for a company that has ties back to the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation. Gates has invested billions in to this pandemic including lobbying the media and governments about vaccines.
I don't believe he/Gates is the cause of all our problems, I just raise his name because I can easily demonstrate how so much of what you see and hear can be tied back to one such well known globalist, thus demonstrating how easy it is for them to control narratives around the world.

Just in the past day or two, we have our own Federal Health department record the death of the 15year old Sydney boy as a Covid19 death. Even in the press conferences, the NSW Health minister said the boy died of pneumococcal meningitis (which he had been vaccinated for). But because he was a Covid19 positive case, they take advantage of that and record his death as a Covid19 death. That helps them promote and push their vaccines on our youth ... who really are not in any real world threat of dying from Covid19.

hezzy's picture

Posts: 1519

Date Joined: 27/11/09

dave id say there are a lot

Fri, 2021-08-20 11:23

dave id say there are a lot of sane , educated , intelligent people who are not anti vaxers and dont believe in hoax or conspiracy theories ,,people who normally have had vaccines in the past , but with this one their just hesitant and waiting ,,,given rapid changes in info coming out and lack of actual covid in wa ,, it kind of makes sense to me ,

nowdays all gov and big pharma have huge resources to spend on spin doctors,advisers, etc call them what you will , same as at election time ,,, their promoting a certain message in all aspects of the media ,,, many of big pharma run and resource these research places at unis and elsewhere ..

with a high survival rate for most people who might catch covid combined with a very low chance of actually catching it in most of wa at present it not hard to understand why a % of people will wait ,,

i personally get dismayed at the blame game and divide this is causing ..imo it should be free choice ,,if a person gets vacinated , good on them , there choice , there supposedly protected ,,if another person chooses not to to wait ,,also their choice ,,to not be protected ,,, sort of like voting labor or libs etc ,, each person has a decision to make for their own reasons ,,

having said that i think it pays to use ones own judgement on these things , reading links or other news sources does not neccessarily make one disagree with professionals , imo it just gives you a wider scan of all potential info being put forward

then make your own choice ,,

this has some way to go yet , possibly another 2-3 years or more and the info will keep being refined as it unfolds ,

____________________________________________________________________________

OFW 11

evil flourishes when good men do nothing

 

davewillo's picture

Posts: 2223

Date Joined: 08/09/16

 Well said Hezzy. I don't

Fri, 2021-08-20 11:51

 Well said Hezzy. I don't have an issue with anyone choosing to wait or not to be vaccinated - it's the ranters and ravers I have an issue with. Just like politics or religion - you do you but don't try to convert the rest of us. The only person I think needs converting is a non-fisher!

There's so much misinformation and conflicting information out there on all sides of the argument that it's hard to see anything clearly. I just know that some of my friends that have had COVID were (and one still is) very sick and one died so that's scary for me. I've never known someone that has died from the flu (yet) so to me it's a worse disease. As you said, there's a long way to go with this. Is there any chance it will mutate and die out as Spanish flu did? 

____________________________________________________________________________

 PGFC member and lure tragic

hezzy's picture

Posts: 1519

Date Joined: 27/11/09

[The only person I think

Fri, 2021-08-20 12:00

[The only person I think needs converting is a non-fisher!]]

____________________________________________________________________________

OFW 11

evil flourishes when good men do nothing

 

hezzy's picture

Posts: 1519

Date Joined: 27/11/09

anyway on to the elusive 5th

Fri, 2021-08-20 11:27

anyway on to the elusive 5th page

AstraZeneca and other COVID-19 vaccines including Moderna could prove to have longer lasting protection against the virus amid signs the Pfizer jab may start to lose effectiveness six to eight months after the second jab.

Israel was the first country in the world to reopen after securing early access to Pfizer and fully vaccinating 70 per cent of residents, but it's now experiencing a fourth wave of infections.

Other nations including Australia are watching closely as the Middle Eastern nation rushes to administer Pfizer booster jabs as the Delta strain sees infections surge to the highest level in six months.Elderly residents' protection levels from the Pfizer vaccination against the Delta strain are significantly dropping, Israel's health ministry found.

Unvaccinated people remain at most risk, being five to six times more likely to get seriously ill from Covid, but the majority of new infections in Israel are fully vaccinated people over 50.

The Financial Times reported that over-65s who received their second Pfizer shot in January are now experiencing protection rates as low as 55 per cent - although some health experts are questioning this figure.

As a result, Israel has begun offering a third Pfizer jab for over 60s and soon over-50s.
https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/effectiveness-of-pfizer-starts-dropping-from-six-to-eight-months/ar-AANuqVM?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531

____________________________________________________________________________

OFW 11

evil flourishes when good men do nothing

 

BlueKiaser's picture

Posts: 422

Date Joined: 22/04/15

16% at 6 months.

Fri, 2021-08-20 11:56

The Israel Pfizer study has shown the average effectivenss for a 2 doses fully vaccinated person 6 months after was 16%. A month earlier it was 44%.
Here's an extract from a Forbes article (and Forbes are generally very pro-vax with their articles);
( From: https://www.forbes.com/sites/jvchamary/2021/07/29/pfizer-covid-19-coronavirus-vaccine-effective-delta-variant/?sh=1bbd503014a0 )

"The report from Israel's Health Ministry supports the possibility that Pfizer has lost potency, leading to waning immunity: the country's rate of breakthrough Covid cases is higher among people who had been double-jabbed a few months ago, long before they were exposed to Delta.

Over a 4-week period (20 June to 17 July 2021), Pfizer's general effectiveness decreased as the time before exposure increased: efficacy was 79% for those who received their second dose in April, 69% for March, 44% for February, and 16% for people who were fully-vaccinated back in January."

Posts: 276

Date Joined: 03/08/19

Bit more info in there though

Fri, 2021-08-20 12:41

 Had a read of that article you posted the link for. IAS you say, t pointed out the waning immunity aspect, but also ome variability between studies. Overall they stated,

"If immunity starts to wane after about 6 months, it's possible that Pfizer is 88% effective if you've only recently been fully vaccinated, but the efficacy is closer to 41% if it's been a while since you received your second dose."

So I think you're leaning a bit too much on the extreme end of the info provided if you stress only the 16%. Furthermore, this type of waning immuity is commonly observed with other vaccines, for example the annual flu, shots so it shouldn't be seen as some issue unique to Covid vaccines.

BlueKiaser's picture

Posts: 422

Date Joined: 22/04/15

Propaganda vs real world

Fri, 2021-08-20 13:20

Pfizer vaccines have been promoted as over 90%+ efficacy.
What Israel and the article show is that number is highly exaggerated given actual recorded and reported real world effectiveness.

And focusing on the 6 months 16% is extremely important to our conversation context here, because many people here are rushing out to get vaccinated, when we currently are not at risk. By the time we are exposed to actual Covid19 risks, it is likely our vaccine effectiveness against infection will be well below 50% (without more than 2 doses).

For this reason, we should be careful making comparisons to the influenza vaccine.
The influenza vaccine is not compulsory/mandatory.
The influenza vaccine is promoted at a specific time of the year for the greatest benefit, whereas, for the likes of Pfizer to be at least 50% effective for at least 11 months of your first 12 months, you may need to have at least 4 jabs (eg. Dose 1 1/1/21, Dose 2 22/1/21, Dose 3 1/6/21, Dose 4 1/12/21).

And the influenza vaccine is a fairly normal typical vaccine. It is not experimental. The flu jab has been approved through the normal timely processes.
Many refuse to even call these Covid19 vaccines ... "vaccines", because they are more like a genetic instruction book for the body rather than a typical vaccine.

Posts: 276

Date Joined: 03/08/19

wait, there's more!

Fri, 2021-08-20 14:03

 No doubt plenty to ponder,. here is a link to very recent disucssion in the well respected journal Nature, about the  issue of boooster shots in relation to Covid.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02158-6