Having someone else dive for Crays?
Submitted by Tradewind on Fri, 2013-12-13 10:28
I haven't gotten pots organised yet which is a shame seeing as this weekend looks fantastic
Although if someone has Jarrah or Pine second hand pots at a reasonable price i'd be interested in buying today/tonight
My question is if I take someone else out on my boat and they dive for the crays (To split between us) is that a grey area if we both take 8 (Both having licences)
Just not ready to freedive myself until I arrange a sharkshield
Walfootrot
Posts: 1386
Date Joined: 23/07/12
No gray area there. as long
No gray area there. as long as you are actively helping with the capture of the crays, ie safety man on the boat, helping retrieve equipment / diver etc.
More drum lines, kill the bloody sharks!
scubafish
Posts: 949
Date Joined: 15/08/12
and they dive for the crays
Always dive with a buddy !NUMBER ONE RULE.
I don't find this funny to encourage bad Dive practises .
http://img.gg/BQ91Sys
Tradewind
Posts: 756
Date Joined: 18/09/12
Funny? Not making a joke
Funny? Not making a joke scuba
Talking more of Freediving which is something i'm not really versed and while I understand it's safer to have a buddy in the water I didn't see this as a cardinal rule for that
terboz123
Posts: 1358
Date Joined: 13/04/11
just finished my Padi
just finished my Padi advanced open water in florida....and there still drilling into ya that you should never dive alone......
a hard days fishing still beats work
PGFC member
GCGFC memberWalfootrot
Posts: 1386
Date Joined: 23/07/12
Congrats on doing ya AOW, yep
Congrats on doing ya AOW, yep best to dive with a buddy, never know what could go wrong..
Plus if you happen to meet Mr White you will have a 50/50 chance
More drum lines, kill the bloody sharks!
petermac
Posts: 2946
Date Joined: 03/03/10
ha ha
agree on the 50/50% best thing if mister white turns up the other thing is dive with a mate that doent wear a shark shield probably makes the odds 80/20 in your favor , bloody hell I haven't got a shark shield any one up for a dive sunday around rockingham
scubafish
Posts: 949
Date Joined: 15/08/12
Well done terboz 123
You will never regret getting your ticket ,Yep "dive Buddy" doesn't mean he has to be a mate,the Buddy system means the person you dive with Becomes your BEST mate and stays with you as you backup and viceversa.A dive Buddy I had years ago was no good at catching crays (with the loop)so he used to hold the bag while I would do the looping and share the catch.
http://img.gg/BQ91Sys
Tradewind
Posts: 756
Date Joined: 18/09/12
Thanks for the input,I'll ask
Thanks for the input,
I'll ask for two divers who don't have access to a boat if they want to hit some shallow crays
Bradlze
Posts: 96
Date Joined: 06/02/12
just dont expect them to bag
just dont expect them to bag out if its there first cray dive, takes a bit of a knack to it
Tradewind
Posts: 756
Date Joined: 18/09/12
Have no delusions of that but
Have no delusions of that but it'd be nice to get a few lads who'd like to do it occasionally and start with freediving in shallower areas
Seeing as they're doing the diving work I wouldnt expect fuel etc
Vinesh87
Posts: 2751
Date Joined: 02/04/11
I Thought actively getting
I Thought actively getting crays was being in the water chasing them. Pretty sure if your in the boat that doesnt count and would be violation of the license?
scubafish
Posts: 949
Date Joined: 15/08/12
Cray rules
IT is and it does.
http://img.gg/BQ91Sys
Starbug
Posts: 563
Date Joined: 27/08/09
Agree.
Agree.
crasny1
Posts: 6986
Date Joined: 16/10/08
Not sure here Vinesh
I have hooka dived (with a buddy) in days when the boat limit allowed this. But with 3 licences the Suface Diver (looking after the hooka) was actively involved and could take his "share". Know this for a fact then because the buddy was a Fisheries Officer.
However with the rule change NOT sure now.
Like Marroning with 2 licences and one snare person, the other just holding a torch and walking, it is still considered taking part.
"I would like to die on Mars. Just not on impact!!" _ Elon Musk
scubafish
Posts: 949
Date Joined: 15/08/12
My apologies Tradewind
if it seems like everyone is having a go
But you hit a nerve with me,
I just dont want to see the Fisheries getting any ideas about changing the lic rules.
One LIC for pot cray fisherman,
and another LIC for Scuba divers diving for crays
I can understand there is fishermen with pots that dont Scuba Dive
But there is Scuba Divers that dont have pots too.
Just what we dont want is more fee's and licences
Not Personal .
http://img.gg/BQ91Sys
Mike17
Posts: 323
Date Joined: 30/06/13
Great Idea
If there is someone that would like to come out i'll take ya and yes i do have a licence so the fee is 8 crays.
PM if your keen i'll be home from Wednesday oh yeah go out from Pt Peron ramp.
Use The Force
scubafish
Posts: 949
Date Joined: 15/08/12
Translation as i understand it
2x divers with lic = 16 crays
2x divers with lic 1 hooker hand(with lic) = 24 crays (boat limit)
2x divers with lic 1 Boat owner(with lic)but not diving = FAIL = 16 crays (boat owner not considered to be actively participating.
2x divers with lic 1 Boat owner(with lic)but not diving but has one pot in water that he has pulled = 24 crays (boat limit )
ONLY MY VIEW.
Page 27 REC Fishing Guide 2013.
http://img.gg/BQ91Sys
crasny1
Posts: 6986
Date Joined: 16/10/08
Just re-read the regs
All it mention is licence holders. It doesnt say anything about being actively fishing. So with 3 or more Fishers onboard with licences you may keep 24.
I will stand corrected with proof as I have been up in Karratha for 6 years and the rules may well have changed.
"I would like to die on Mars. Just not on impact!!" _ Elon Musk
scubafish
Posts: 949
Date Joined: 15/08/12
Hello crasny 1
Page 27 REC Fishing Guide 2013.Daily Boat limit column .
http://img.gg/BQ91Sys
crasny1
Posts: 6986
Date Joined: 16/10/08
TKU
Have just read it - sorry. But it is so gray!!
What does actively fishing mean?
If and I say if I go out, and between 2 off us with legal licences drop 4 pots. But the poor decky's arms cant handle the pull so I do it all, then the "deckie" is NOT actively fishing. That means 8??? only.
Down here in Mandurah this would cause chaos as heaps of retired gents and their wives go out and pull pots, but I bet that not all "are" actually actively fishing.
"I would like to die on Mars. Just not on impact!!" _ Elon Musk
scubafish
Posts: 949
Date Joined: 15/08/12
I hear you ,I think your
I hear you ,I think your reading to much into it
It would of course be ok to do that(in my opinion),but remember your boat your rules if fisheries pull you up I would not want to stand there arguing the point,
any doubt ring them.
http://img.gg/BQ91Sys
MandurahMatt
Posts: 613
Date Joined: 18/09/13
Are you referring to info
Are you referring to info given regarding RBFL boat limit rules or rock lobster rules?
Bewdey Fellaz
Subaquatic
Posts: 515
Date Joined: 23/04/11
I disagree, see below. 2x
I disagree, see below.
2x divers with lic 1 hooker hand(with lic) = 16 crays (boat limit)
How can you get to 24, when the daily bag limit for each diver is 8.....The hooker hand has to get his own.
MandurahMatt
Posts: 613
Date Joined: 18/09/13
So if boat owner doesn't
So if boat owner doesn't count does that also mean if you have three licenced persons on a boat running two pots only your boat limit is then 8 not 24 ?!
Bewdey Fellaz
crasny1
Posts: 6986
Date Joined: 16/10/08
All to confusing
But MM if you have 3 licence holders onboard with 2 pots, your limit is 24. But then thats impossible because with 2 pots only 2 people can actually be actively fishing, as there is only 2 pots to pull!!!!!!
"I would like to die on Mars. Just not on impact!!" _ Elon Musk
MandurahMatt
Posts: 613
Date Joined: 18/09/13
Agreed I was asking not
Agreed I was asking not telling !
Bewdey Fellaz
crasny1
Posts: 6986
Date Joined: 16/10/08
Me too mate
"I would like to die on Mars. Just not on impact!!" _ Elon Musk
scubafish
Posts: 949
Date Joined: 15/08/12
Dont know where it say boat
Dont know where it say boat owner does not count ?
Each lic holder With pots must have their gear marked.
Two pots per lic holder .
Be prepared to be able to prove that you have pots in the water with your lic number on them if you are a lic holder on board.
http://img.gg/BQ91Sys
dumper
Posts: 1026
Date Joined: 03/04/08
It's a rule that was
It's a rule that was originally brought in to stop the abalone divers going in and getting 400 legal abalone because their grandma, grandpa and 18 cousins under the age of four all held licences and sat on the beach or in the Mitsubishi l300 while 1 or 2 people did the actual diving.
axey45
Posts: 1758
Date Joined: 26/11/13
Yep, along those lines, i
Yep, along those lines, i think its the way fisheries see it at the time and so smart asses dont get away with it, eg, like i dont understand etc etc.
scubafish
Posts: 949
Date Joined: 15/08/12
Abalone
dont get me started on that,that should be band altogether for at least three years.Makes me angry to see all those people walking all over the reefs ,
the Damage that that must do to the reef.
http://img.gg/BQ91Sys
MandurahMatt
Posts: 613
Date Joined: 18/09/13
I would think a boat limit
I would think a boat limit is pretty straight forwar 3 lic = 24 Crays not relevant who does what. Some people will pull their pots then go for a dive Fisheries arn't gona know who done what all they are gona care about is number of pots, number of lic, number of Crays! Not who did or didn't go for a swim. If it's a concern just do a Bommie off the side of the boat n get back in !id recommend a horsey not a belly flop !
Bewdey Fellaz
axey45
Posts: 1758
Date Joined: 26/11/13
Yeah at least you will be
Yeah at least you will be cool headed when they asked ya.
scubafish
Posts: 949
Date Joined: 15/08/12
Yes you can get away with
Yes you can get away with that ,but if your wrong ,hope your boats not to expensive to replace or a lot of money to pay the finds.
AS I said if your not sure ,make a Phone call.
Good night
sleep tight
dont let the missus wake you
GOT A HEADACHE .
http://img.gg/BQ91Sys
axey45
Posts: 1758
Date Joined: 26/11/13
Make the call, it will save
Make the call, it will save you alot, its not worth chancing on a guess.
axey45
Posts: 1758
Date Joined: 26/11/13
They the fisheries sh-t me,
They the fisheries sh-t me, they should make it clear, y should we have to call them they have the rules n regs, just typical gov, rants over.
Subaquatic
Posts: 515
Date Joined: 23/04/11
Its very clear.You cannot
Its very clear.
You cannot be in possession of more than 8 crays per license at any time.
If you have more than 8 crays, regardless of size, markings etc......you are in violation.
You cannot bring 10 to the boat, keep 8, and release the rest.
You cannot bring 10 to the boat, and give 2 to a mate who only got 6.
You cannot bring 24 to the boat in one bag, and share them with 2 other license holders already on the boat.
You cannot share a bag.
You cannot have more than 24 on the boat at anytime. As the master of the boat, your total possession limit is 24, and all crays onboard are counted as in the possession of the master of the boat
As it states in the rules, and its fairly clear....
Boat limit
This means the maximum number of rock
lobsters you may carry on a boat. If there is
only one person on board, the maximum is
one day’s bag limit (8).
If there are two people
on board, it is two days’ bag limit (16).
If three or more people are on board, it is three
days’ bag limit (24)
The "actively fishing" comment that appears in a few of the guidelines, is not reflected in the legislative act.
Under the law (act and regs) you cant surface with 16 crays, and use the defence "8 of then are for the skipper, who has a license and was actively helping me", for the simple reason that your own bag limit is 8.
From the regs:
(3C) Despite subregulations (3A) and (3B), the master of a boat that is not a fishing boat must ensure that the quantity of fish of the species referred to in this subregulation that is on or attached to the boat and any tender or other vessel operating with or attached to the boat is not more than —
(a) if there is only one person on the boat —
(i) one day’s bag limit of blue manna crabs; and
(ii) one day’s bag limit of mud crabs (brown and green combined); and
(iii) one day’s bag limit of cuttlefish, octopus and squid (combined); and
(iv) one day’s bag limit of rock lobster; and
(v) one day’s bag limit of brownlip and greenlip abalone (combined);
or
(b) if there are 2 persons on the boat —
(i) 2 days’ bag limit of blue manna crabs; and
(ii) 2 days’ bag limit of mud crabs (brown and green combined); and
(iii) 2 days’ bag limit of cuttlefish, octopus and squid (combined); and
(iv) 2 days’ bag limit of rock lobster; and
(v) 2 days’ bag limit of brownlip and greenlip abalone (combined);
or
(c) if there are 3 or more persons on the boat —
(i) 2 days’ bag limit of blue manna crabs; and
(ii) 2 days’ bag limit of mud crabs (brown and green combined); and
(iii) 2 days’ bag limit of cuttlefish, octopus and squid (combined); and
(iv) 3 days’ bag limit of rock lobster; and
(v) 2 days’ bag limit of brownlip and greenlip abalone (combined).
Penalty: a fine of $10 000 and the penalty provided in section 222 of the Act.
axey45
Posts: 1758
Date Joined: 26/11/13
That, actively fishing was
That, actively fishing was wot i was refering to.
Brock O
Posts: 3166
Date Joined: 11/01/08
Well Im a Pirate
"You cannot bring 10 to the boat, keep 8, and release the rest."
Lost count of the times ive been quilty of this!! what a load of crap!
Ive always checked my size & bag limit at the boat, but would never come to shore with more than 8.
Edit; bring 12 or more to the boat and give piss poor dive buddy 4 or more! quilty also.
Subaquatic
Posts: 515
Date Joined: 23/04/11
Mate, Im not saying I agree,
Mate, Im not saying I agree, but that's the regs (law)
If you want evidence, I can give you the number of a person who just got prosecuted for this.
Got 10, hung them from the transom whilst he got his gear off, then got pinged, before he had a chance to sort them.
If you bring 12 to the boat, you are in violation of the regs. Regardless of who gets them.
Brock O
Posts: 3166
Date Joined: 11/01/08
I dont dout
any of what your stating, and i thank my lucky stars ive never came to the boat with a officer on board.
I have taken the guage below before, but out of habbit fill the bag ( when possible ) size, sort and count on board.
Tale what im keeping with the rest going straight baqck over.
Walfootrot
Posts: 1386
Date Joined: 23/07/12
you can bring as many as you
you can bring as many as you like back to the boat, but then they must be sorted within 5 min,
Lol what happens when you pull up a pot with 35 crays in it?
More drum lines, kill the bloody sharks!
Seafari
Posts: 116
Date Joined: 17/03/12
As far as I'm aware, you have
As far as I'm aware, you have to dive your own crays but who will ever know if someone more experineced catches them whilst you float on the surface and lend moral support to the guys grabbing crays? So long as you have the gear in the boat who knows if you've been floating on the surface watching or diving and grabbing your own crays. I doubt being the "boatman" on the surface whilst others dive actually counts as actively diving your crays so you'll probably . Also I think fisheries may have an issue of you come in with quota for say two people and there's only one set of dive gear.
A Korean bloke that works with us got busted a few weeks ago when diving Abalone. His wife normally entres the water but that day the water was too rough so he told her to wait on the beach and he grabbed his quota plus extra for her as she also had a licesnse. They were busted and he received a huge fine for pocessing over limit. If his wife had waded out for a few minutes there would have been no problem but she was sitting on the beach. I suspect the cray catching will be viewd in the same way, even if just sitting in the boat.
Brock O
Posts: 3166
Date Joined: 11/01/08
Thats a hard
One, boating is not easy, cheap or safe! little bit different i recon. To me a spotter on the boat while 2 are diving is fair share as part of the catch, especially with grey coats and accidents of serious nature possible.
But other may not see it that way.
We have a expert from the musem that helps out with ID's!! Why dont we have an active fisheries guy who can interperate and share views / thoughts.
tiimmbo
Posts: 694
Date Joined: 16/08/09
now that is a great idea
now that is a great idea Brock.
hooty
Posts: 198
Date Joined: 25/05/10
What a crock of shit. Do any
What a crock of shit. Do any of you people dive or catch crays. For fuck sake every time you pulled a pot and it had more than 8 you would be stuffed. Don't even consider re baiting the other pot you might be double stuffed. You have 5 min to get rid of the extras, thats what that rules for. Imagine sizing crays underwater. .So if your elderly or disabled and cant pull pots you cant catch crays, yeah 2013 I can see that one working
Subaquatic
Posts: 515
Date Joined: 23/04/11
Not a crock, just facts
If you get 12 in a pot, you have a few minutes to get rid of the rest. You cannot be charged for an unavoidable act.
But that does not mean you can have 12 when you are diving for them, because under the act, you were in possession of them for more than a few minutes.
That's not a crock of shit, that's just the law....as one board member found out a few months ago.
Brock O
Posts: 3166
Date Joined: 11/01/08
Come on Hooty
"Do any of you people dive or catch crays" imagine sizing crays under water! Mate done it a few times quite easily, just hook the gauge over the horns like you do on board !!
but you do cover a good point with pulling pots.
Rob H
Posts: 5745
Date Joined: 18/01/12
I size my crays onboard and
I size my crays onboard and dont believe im doing anything wrong. Time underwater is precious. Having said that i did a shoredive today with a couple of blokes. One carried the bag and gauge and we grabbed them and got 17-worked well.
But i do agree with Hooty mostly.
If you ask any goverment official a question left of field then they will say no.
and can a pensioner/child/disabled person get help with catching? Id like to see a goverment agency assess a disabled person then refuse them a quota.
Those rules were brought in due to certain families getting licences for babies etc but only one person catches.
How do you legislate for that?
Impossible really but id argue with Fisheries til blue in the face of my 2 boys right to a quota despite being unable physically pull a pot to the surface.
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
Auslobster
Posts: 1901
Date Joined: 03/05/08
Sizing them underwater...
Subaquatic
Posts: 515
Date Joined: 23/04/11
One scenario.....
One bloke, diving on his own off the beach at Mindarie, catches 36 undersized crays in his bag, heads back to shore starts getting his gear off, and a fisheries officer walks up and counts his catch.
"Sorry sir, I was just about to size them"
Every bloke ever shore diving for crays would have a "get out of jail free card" if this was allowed.
hooty
Posts: 198
Date Joined: 25/05/10
You have 5 minutes once
You have 5 minutes once taking them from the water, not a few. The reason for this is to size and inspect your catch. Yes you can size your crays underwater but not a very accurate way to do it, especially whilst tryng to check for hair and setose. Throw in a bit of poor vis and your asking for trouble. How can you register a five year old child to get a cray licence then, cant physically pull the pot and yet to see one dive. And yes your bloke with 36 crays has five minutes to get them back in the water, after that hes gone. On your theory fisheries have under cover officers on scuba with a stop watch lol. Theres a reason most fisheries inspections on land are at the car park and not on the beach. As for actively fishing, that is grey enough that isnt doesnt have an exact definition. Pulling anchor, lifting scuba gear into boat, safety monitor, measuring catch ect, ect. ect. Tell me of one infringement in the last 5 years, not hear say.
Subaquatic
Posts: 515
Date Joined: 23/04/11
No hear say here...
"Tell me of one infringement in the last 5 years, not hear say"
Up until recently, I was with you 100% mate, but as I pointed out earlier, a dive buddy, and member of this board was recently pinged for having too many in his bag before he even got it into the boat.
PM me your phone number Hooty, and Ill put you in touch with him.
hooty
Posts: 198
Date Joined: 25/05/10
Mate still not convinced. If
Mate still not convinced. If he paid the fine he was silly. I had one guy write me a fine for having more than 2 rods out in my boat even though I explained he didnt know the rules. He came back about 20 minutes later and the fine went away.
Subaquatic
Posts: 515
Date Joined: 23/04/11
He didn't pay, and its going
He didn't pay, and its going before a magistrate. If I can get a hold of the transcript, Ill forward it to you.
Again, I'm not saying what's right and wrong, just what the regs say, and how some officers are enforcing it.
Im just not sure if I want to take the chance, and risk the time/effort in court......then again, on the day, I reckon I would.
dumper
Posts: 1026
Date Joined: 03/04/08
Wouldn't fisheries have been
Wouldn't fisheries have been in breach of the fifty meter rule if they were close enough to nab him as he surfaced?
Subaquatic
Posts: 515
Date Joined: 23/04/11
No. Fisheries, police and DOT
No. Fisheries, police and DOT are exempt. Its in the regs.
Meteorite
Posts: 69
Date Joined: 30/12/10
Pretty sure even fisheries
Pretty sure even fisheries are capable of applying common sense in most situations and are not totally unreasonable - if not thats why we have courts.
Meteorite
Posts: 69
Date Joined: 30/12/10
Pretty sure even fisheries
Pretty sure even fisheries are capable of applying common sense in most situations and are not totally unreasonable - if not thats why we have courts.
hooty
Posts: 198
Date Joined: 25/05/10
Now thats a common sense
Now thats a common sense comment I agree with, cheers.
petermac
Posts: 2946
Date Joined: 03/03/10
next time i go for a dive
better take my lawyer with me next time I do a cray dive , let him determine if I am breaking any rules and he can measure all the crays with a calibrated digital vernier and to make sure I did my dive with out braking any of the hundreds of rules out there oh yea hell got caught in a rip and it pulled me into the sanctuary area near the sisters ) lucky my decky had enough brains and come after me other wise if fisheries officers had caught me in the sanctuary area with a goody bag full of crays they would have put me against a wall and executed me