for the closures to remain at 2 months as 6 months will have devastating effects on small fishery based towns and the industry based around the tackle and boating trades.A fishing license for every angler with or without a boat with discounts for pensioners and kids under 14 free to promote them to get off the computer games.There needs to be a log book for boats that fish for demersals and at least a boat license of say $100 dollars for the year.The umbrella license needs to stay in order for more active anglers to be less disadvantaged in order for them to inject funds into southwest towns during marron and trout seasons.The fund should then have a revue in twelve months time and if it is holding strong at that fee input it should remain at that until the next revue.If it is struggling or over funded then adjust the fees to suit.We should only go to 6 months if we really have to.The log books are a must in my opinion as it is the only true way of knowing rec catches because as has been mentioned hundreds of times before we know fairly closely to the ton what the pros take and they just take a punt at rec take.I would be more than happy to pay $150 for an umbrella license and $100 dollars for a demersal license and also drop the bag limit to one dhu one snapper and one baldie per angler per day if that is not enough of a feed for you you would need your head read.The limit of fish at your home in the freezer should be dropped to 10 kg per adult over the age of 16 to a max of say 30 kg any family can get through a 2 month closure on 20 kg to 30 kg and if not buy steak and bangers.For me $250 and a chance at a brighter future for the fishery is a small price to pay.If they dont change it i will pay and deal with that as well.We would all agree on the fact that we need to do something is just we cant agree on what and if we think that if it is overturned and labour get back in that they wont do something similar next time then they would be going back on all they said last year.If you get a boat license then you should receive a sticker to place near you rego numbers and the fines for non compliance should be extreme.In new zealand they dont screw around you get caught once they take your boat into trust so it belongs to them but you hang onto it and if you get caught again no question asked your boat is gone and they take the trailer aswell.You get caught breaking or bending the law then pay the price i say.If you get caught selling or swapping your catch you should lose your house and all under the profits of crime laws.We go far to soft on the crooks in our society i feel.Just My Humble Little Opinion.

Allrounder, I agree with your thoughts on this one, I dont think a referendum will solve this issue. I think a longer running petition would be a better alternative, so that everybody is aware of the proposals. I just hope that the "disallowance" goes through and the whole proposal is delayed as long as possible to collect a copious amount of signatures.
Jim.

think hard about the fact that if this is not refined and accepted that the alternatives that will follow are far far worse.You need to think past the proposal on the table at the moment at the ones that are lined up to take its place.The BIG picture is not that good looking and the ones that are b#tching now will need to take a long hard look at themselves if we end up with worse.Just be aware of the next step.

The bigest problem here is geting everyone to agree on the same things, as everyone has there idea of what is good for the future fish stocks. we need to get 5-10 good solid ideas that will serve all involved ,this I think is the real challange .Everyone puts in there two pence worth,and ideas get thrown back and forth but that is as far as it goes .who or how do you get it to the next stage.

If we all answer a few questions
1 do we agree with a 2 month closure?
2what $ are we prepared to pay for a licence?
3do you think we need a further reduced bag limit?
4Do we think that we should have an person or a boat license for demersals?
5 should we as boat bound anglers have a log book for each boat in order to accurately count rec catches?
6Should we have an umbrella license?
7 Should we have some input into how a portion of the funding is spent in some kind of online polling system the same style as photo of the month?
8 Should we have reduced possession limits at our home addresses ?
9 Should we have harsher penalty for offences?
10 Cant think of one so feel free to bang some more up?

1. 2 month closure,YES
2. $100 for a year with consetions for under 14 and pensioners.
3. Further reduced bag limits ,YES
4. Boat license YES
5. Log book YES
6. Umbrella licence for those that would use one ..and single licences
7. Imput into spending funds raised YES
8. I think this would depend on the bag limits ,if the are halved,Yes halve the possession limit.as if we head up north and are allowed 20kg per person then we would need the 20kg home limit
9 Harsher penalties YES
10 Raise some of the size limits.
11 up north trip 20kg to 10kg per person
NOW we need to try to keep the idears down to a small number having 100 different things will just bownce around 10 good idears to benefit

That i didnt think of the size limit.If you made it 10 kg for every family member over the age of 16 then the average family could 20 kg in the freezer anyway.

Well I think everyone is full of crap. looks like there all out of ideas so this is my last say on any topic to do with rules .We cop what we cop and if they don't like it to bad ..As I for one don't give. i'll be out there geting my bag.

as Paul said , whatever happens happens. If your serious and have a true passion for fishing weather it be to fill the freezer or going out there for some fun and bring only one or two fish home your going to be out there. i know we will be out there but not as often due to work

1 2 month closure is a good idea
2 umbrella license for all is a good idea
3 bag/boat limit down is definately a good idea
4 boat license is a good idea
5 log book is based on trust. it wouldn't work
6 see #2
7 on line poll for where money is spent is an excellent idea
8 reduce freezer possesion limit not a good idea. policing???
9 harsher penalties definately
10 size limits need to be looked into with min and max limits
11 10kg of fillets from up north is still a shed load of fish. just raping spots.
12 go slow campaign great and must carry release weight

1 do we agree with a 2 month closure? No

 2what $ are we prepared to pay for a licence? $0

 3do you think we need a further reduced bag limit? yes

 4Do we think that we should have an person or a boat license for demersals? No

 5 should we as boat bound anglers have a log book for each boat in order to accurately count rec catches? No

6Should we have an umbrella license?

 7 Should we have some input into how a portion of the funding is spent in some kind of online polling system the same style as photo of the month? if the license's go ahead

8 Should we have reduced possession limits at our home addresses ?yes, but that doesnt really get policed at the moment anyway

9 Should we have harsher penalty for offences?YES

quite frankly i dont believe its right for the goverment to charge people to go fishing, its a pastime, something that people do to relax to find stress relief, and hey not every single boat goes out fishing for dhuies and snapper. they need to have a proper study, i work in a tackle shop and last year we had some of the best fishing reports of demersal fish we have had in years. i dont think recreational angling can have as much of an impact as pro-fishos dont, i reacon the should stop all pros, quite frankly fish shouldnt be as readly accsesable as it is in shops. a great way of protecting these fish is halfing the bag limits and putting in aproprate closure zones where it is in needed. also the south west license i noticed has gone up to $45, for what, for us to catch redfin which is vermin and your not suposed to return them to the water so realisticly, theres no real way of counting fish stocks even with log books, not everybody who goes out fishing for dhuies catchs them, its not because they are not there but mainly because the people arnt where the fish are, so i dont see how they can count stocks even with log books we are doing them a favour, trout are also an introduced spieces but no considered vermin. just my opinion

1. Closure for 2 months, agree with this, but what 2 months is the best for the breeding cycles???

2. License fee. $30-40 for a saltwater fishing licenses, land based or boat based. Needs to be a general license for all, other states have this.

3. Reduced bag limits, yes drop to 1 dhu per person, think the rest are sustainable. Look at the amount of small snapper around. Maybe baldy's to 1 per person too.

4. boat license. No. I dont think boaties should have to pay additional because they own a boat. Generally people think if you own a boat your well off and can afford to pay more $$$, this isnt the case.

5. Log books, YES - And should be enforced. Makes for good research data.

6. Umbrella license - Yep agree with this.

7. Input into funding. Definately Agree, need to look seriously at breeding programs and fish stocking programs. Think this is very important.

8. Posession limits - Tough one this one.

9. Harsher penalties. yes

10. Raise some of the size limits, not sure on this one, what about putting a maximum size on some species?

i can see one major prob with reducing bag limits on selected species. the people that chase these will no doubt get more than 1 when they are out there (dhui) most people will keep the first size dhui but then you get some greedy ones that will upgrade their fish and throw back the smaller dead one. not saying that it doesnt happen now as i know it does and i have seen it first hand but if you can keep 2 then your less likely to see the smaller dead ones go back.
Reducing the bag limits of any species will have the same effect but unfortunately there is some real greedy people out there that will do the wrong thing

Petitions have been handed in, letters have been written to all and sundry. Interesting discussion above guys but is it going to go anywhere...i don't think so. We are still at the beckon call of government when the rules come in.

Hopefully the petitions etc will sway the decision of government to make the rules fair across the board. I agree with most of the suggestions raised above however it is pointless making further comment until the government finalises the new rules. just my 2c worth.
pjay :)

1 do we agree with a 2 month closure?..........YES 2 what $ are we prepared to pay for a licence?....... $30 license to fish and $100 boat license for (V5) 3 do you think we need a further reduced bag limit?....... No, think the size for deep sea Harpura, Cods etc should be to 1 metre 4 Do we think that we should have an person or a boat license for demersals? ..........Question 2 answered 5 should we as boat bound anglers have a log book for each boat in order to accurately count rec catches?.....YES more accurate data than averaging 10 boats and only 2 boats (& no charter catches in Data also), caught fish 6 Should we have an umbrella license?...... YES if people want the lot, but can buy separately 7 Should we have some input into how a portion of the funding is spent in some kind of on line polling system the same style as photo of the month?........Yes 8 Should we have reduced possession limits at our home addresses? This to me is a yes/no question as you'll always have killers that will fish till they drop, to stop the killers I say .........YES but this penalties good fisho's that only go out for a feed not over stock their Freezers 9 Should we have harsher penalty for offences? ....... YES 10 Cant think of one so feel free to bang some more up...... Increase or decrease the size limits depending on the vulnerability of the species....like Harpura have to throw back over a meter (not sure on that one)

LOL might as well not go fishing as it will take half the day to sort ya log book an shit out , n pay , I agree with shutting down the fishing for an ammount of time but REALISTICALLY what is two months going to do , um NOTHING AT ALL , more measures need to be taken 1 year or more . Its not just about money an log books ! We need to section of parts of the ocean similair to the way cockburn sound is and ban fishing in that area for more the then a year. Its been proven to work , example shark bay ! Also The vast ammount of ocean surrounding our coast lesss then 2 5 are protected reserves ! thats pretty pathetic !. i think that size limit on dhufish should be similiar to snapper on inner gulfs allowed two fish but none over 80 cm or something similair ! because at teh end of the day with all these log books and licences its going to defeat the purpose of going out fishing due to all the rules regs and money we ahve to put into it.

Some great suggestions

refreshing really

Allrounder I think your on the money especially with your ten kilos only of fillets. To acheive twenty you have to kill a lot of fish especially if the size is down and people do waste a lot of fish flesh getting prime fillets not many keep and freeze wings they go into the offal. A two month ban and consider the amount of fishing time lost to bad weather on our coast this should ease the pressure on our V5s. I say a mixed bag of three dimersals per fisher per day in metro would be sufficent for a couple of good feeds.

Allrounder and Paul G
You have come up with ten good valid questions and answers and I think your suggestions should be, put to an online vote or poll within the site, to measure the general feeling, re your suggestions. When that vote or poll has been taken, then maybe the suggestions that you have both come up with, should be put forward to Recfishwest, then they could lobby the government about your suggestions.

As for the Logbook, by all means introduce the Logbook System and its not that difficult to get into the habit of filling out a logbook.

Jim.

1. 2 month closure, NO it needs to be longer , bad weather does not stop trawling. and 2 months will not have any significant changes.Sections of oceans needs to be closed to fishing similiar to shark bay. for longer extended period of time to have any decent impact.
2. $100 for a year with consetions for under 14 and pensioners. NO to expensive lower the cost
3. Further reduced bag limits , No , set boundaries For different species of fish , can only take a certain size and anything for that particular species which is over the size threshold ( similiar to pink snapper in some areas) are released. this preserves our main breeders in fish.
4. Boat license YES
5. Log book No , just more shit to fill out and another money making racket.
6. Umbrella licence for those that would use one ..and single licences
7. Imput into spending funds raised YES
8 Harsher penalties YES to many people get away with undersize fish .
9 Raise some of the size limits. No size limits are fine certain threshhold on bigger sizes should be returned.
10 up north trip 20kg to 10kg per person 10kg of pure fillets is a HUGE ammount of fish.

Thats my opinion

What ever it is, I hope they put all the licenses on one card, the last thing we need is to have to pay for more plastic cards and have heaps thrown in the trash every year when they are renewed. Imagine, fishing lic, skippers lic, boat fishing lic etc, etc.......

I agree with Highlanders suggestion of the online vote thing and putting this foward to Recfishwest.
My input...
1. No to a 2 month ban on a wide range of species. Instead ban the taking of 2 of those species for a whole 12 months. This would give them a chance to breed and be fish. And on the flip side we can still take a feed of fish home of other species. And after the 12 months swap those 2 species with another 2 species and so on.
2. Yeh I will pay a lisence of $30 a year like in other states but I would like to know on what/where and why it is being spent on to help fish stocks. I think this should include everyone who fishes and no just boat based fishos.
3. I think 2 many changes with this can become confusing to people to the point where they become ignorant of it and not bother even checking. So no, make it something and stick to it.
4.No to demersal lisence. Sometimes when Iam fishing for something, something else will come along and it is a welcome surprise. I dont think I should have to pay for that privelidge to keep it. Instead use some lisence money to buy back commercial lisences that target this fishery and fisheries with demersal fish bycatch.
5. Yes, I would do a log book but for it to be beneficial it would have to be made compulsary, if used as reaserch. Everyone who fishes would have to fill one out correctly however to get an accurate picture. I dont always weigh or measure my fish though and try and get them back into the water as quickly as possible if releasing.
6.Yes to umbrella license. Gets to confusing otherwise. 30 bucks, even 50 bucks for everything. That is a truckload of revenue a year.
7. Yes I think we should all have a say on what the money is spent on within reason. However the end decision should be left up to the smarts. eg, people who do this for a living.
8. Yes There should be a total posession limit as well as the normal daily bag limit.
9. Yes I think penaltys should be harsh enough for people to say, shit Iam not going to do that.
Having seen the changes that NSW has been through with the introduction of licenses is very heart warming to me. It shows that fisheries can improve out of sight when the right/smart thing is done with the money that is raised through this system.
Thanks again for your input

The one thing out of all the reports is that there is insufficient research data at the moment. Think we need to put something in to increase the research.

License fees are a must … A $50 per person annual license fee for all fishing would be sufficient to let them get on with the job. approximate revenue would be in the range of 28 - 33 million per annum

I am still a big believer in the fishing zones… eg 40k’s of coastline protected out to 100 meter line. Then 80k’s of open fishing…

Every 4 – 5 years move the zone 20k’s… or maintain the protected zone for 10 years and then move it

There is still a good case for setting a max size limit too. This will help to keep the breeders in the water and prevent upsizing… the downside is the effect on the number of juveniles making it to breeding stock size.

More in the news today...

http://www.news.com.au/perthnow/story/0,21598,25992652-5005399,00.html

As a result of signing a letter and petition at the Boat Show, I received a letter of thanks from Alan Carpenter, Member for Willagee, about my concerns, re,the new recreational fishing charges.
In one paragraph in the letter, its says and I quote " This latest tax comes on top of the State Government's budget announcement that 70 days would be stripped from the patrolling capacity of the Department of Fisheries. Minister Moore wants ordinary Western Australian's to pay for the gaps in the budget",unquote.
I honestly think, that the Minister needs to "step down", after this show of beligerence and utter contempt of the West Austrailan public, I wasnt afforded the same courtesy from MR Moore, when I sent my letter, which was downloaded from this site.

Jim.

Minister Moore wants ordinary western australians to pay for the gaps in the budget unquote Now to quote another polly "please explain"how he is asking ordinary western australians as he is not. He is asking the users of the resource to pay the difference. If he was asking ordinary people then if you lived in the hollow and come to town twice a year for a hundred pounds of yeast and some copper line then you would be paying as well.So they had better stay away from copperhead road and take the fee from the ones that should be paying.If we end up with 6 month closures then let it be on the heads of those that b@tched the most because the industry around fishing will hurt from that one.How much will it cost for a service on your motor if they rely on 6 months to make their money?How much will it cost for insurance if we all lay our boats up for six months of the year?How much will it cost for bait and tackle if they rely on 6 months and a few going north each year?How much will it cost to go north when the caravan parks ect up north have a larger call for the same time you guessed it the price will go up.Instead of this being a constructive discussion on what we think should happen instead of what was proposed it has gone back to the old I AM PI#$ED AT THE FACT I WILL HAVE TO PAY TO PLUNDER discussion so im with paul g on this one you will get what your given so deal with it and i am not going to waste my typing finger on this subject anymore Thanks barneyboy for giving us a chance at a reasonable chance at it sorry it always goes pear shaped.

if the gov't are really serious about protecting the fishery wouldnt you think they would just lower bag limits and put long closed seasons on at risk species (ie 1 year ban on take of baldies, next year dhuies etc etc.
i do agree with a licence as long as the funds go back into policing the waters.
the penaltys need to be much more severe too.

I dont quite think your comment is quite fair. A few people on this site seem to think that absolutely every fisherman goes out, targets the v5 and bags out. While the closure of the areas and size limits and reduced possession are important issues I think the killer point to this whole license issue is that the average fisherperson is going to get stung 180$ to go out and get a feed of herring/whiting/squid. So take your comments about bitching over cost to plunder the ocean and shove it. I have not plundered anything as I have never caught a snapper/dhuie or v5 because my equipment(boat) simply doesnt allow me to target these species.

I love going out, experiencing the nature/water and getting a feed but for christ sakes would you lot wake up to the fact that it isnt just about the V5.

1 do we agree with a 2 month closure?
Yes if it is at the breeding time, but do all these species breed at the same time?

2what $ are we prepared to pay for a licence?
$100 a year umbrella licence, all species, boat or shore.

3do you think we need a further reduced bag limit?
agree with others, halve it to 2 fish or 10kg fillets

4Do we think that we should have an person or a boat license for demersals?
I think it should just be a fishing license. North, south, inland, shore or boat almost a right to fish card. Annual for regulars or one off/monthly for those who dont fish. All species (umbrella) annual fishing license $100.

5 should we as boat bound anglers have a log book for each boat in order to accurately count rec catches?
Yes log book, Produced by fisheries dept in a plastic sleeve with a year calendar and color species id section. provided by fisheries upon licence payment, to be handed in at 1st jan each year, new log book mailed out with state of fisheries info at jan each year.

6Should we have an umbrella license?
yes

7 Should we have some input into how a portion of the funding is spent in some kind
of online polling system the same style as photo of the month?
yes, to many shitty boat ramps designed by non boaties smarter more environmentally conscious facilities.

8 Should we have reduced possession limits at our home addresses ?
hard to monitor but yes, 10kg fillets

9 Should we have harsher penalty for offences?
bloody oath, but have to be able to enforce it as others have pointed out yes we see research officers at ramps but how often do you hear of prosecution? the only ones I can think of recently is blokes taking blue manna crabs in the sound and abelone every year. Dont know how they were caught, eg in the act or at the ramp? anyway needs more policing

All the rules and regs in the world will not stop people targetting Dhuies etc.

Some still will,, just will not keep them and dhuies don't release as well as some fish, so a lot will die anyway,,

I think all fishers, boat or shore, should pay a nominal fee for the accurate assessment of total numbers of fishers. Kids under 16 and pensioners for free and concession card holders at a reduced rate but still need to obtain a license. A booklet of the rules is supplied in your dominant language so no more excuses of "no understandee the engrish"
As for umbrella license I still support the individual ones as once again it allows for accurate numbers to be calculated. $45 a piece thou I feel is too high. Thats straight out revenue raising to fully fund the cost of admimstration and enforcement back on to the users.. Well hello, isnt that what I pay taxes for!!!
Cut the number of pollies by half as they only vote along party lines anyway so what difference does it make if there are 135 or 75. They dont make decisions anyway they pay huge amounts to advisors and consultants to do all the work..There just muppets.../end rant..

Deep breath...

The 2 month closure...Before Christmas... Am I the only one here who is so cynical to believe that this timing is motivated to appease commercial sector..The average rec fisher will have no fish in the freezer for this peak time so to fill the sortfall will be forced to buy. Then without the rec to compete for stocks the Pros will be able to fully exploit the increase in demand..But once again, maybe im just being paranoid. Wheres my tin foil hat!!!

Finaly, demersal fishing. I would support a type a fee that works something like a logbook with tags. A boat owner/fisher could purchase this "book" for say $50 and in it is 25 non reusable tags. To keep any catorgory 1 fish you must tag it and log it within 5 minutes of capture. The tag can be used by anyone with a valid fishing license and it applies to any Cat 1 fish caught from boat or shore. Tags dont expire so will last until all 25 are used. When a tag is used and its details logged the log page must be deposited and a collection center( tackle shops/post office). When you run out just fork out another fee and get another one..user pays. Those that catch the most, pay the most. Reasearch then gets accurate data.

I think everyone is human and mistakes can happen. Fisheries officers have been very kind and issued warnings to minor first offenders and to be honest I think that is the right approach. However to have a tag book on board and not used the tags hoping to get away with is a delierate act. Like hiding fish above your bag limit and the penalties should be severe. If we have to have a license to fish you now have something to suspend or issue demerit points against.

There should be no maximum size limits on the deep water species,hapuka,grey band etc,the fish are dead by the time they are 1/4 of the way up and are wasted if found to be oversize.
Reducing the possession limits to 10kg is also not on,once you fillet your daily bag limit of 2x4kg dhuies.2 x pinkies etc plus the 4 crays from your pots you are over the limit.

The 2 month closure should be later in the year covering the whole of the breeding season not the first half of it,starting from the 2 week in November and finishing 3rd week in January.