what would you do
i know its not fishing related but im pissed off.
so i was at atm at round 7 pm before going into the bottlo to get a 6er of beer when i go to get back into my car and some f***wit decided to stick a knife in my back and tell me to hand over my keys, wallet and phone.
i turned round to pretend to hand him the keys and smacked him in face until he dropped to the ground so i could put a knee in back and call the cops. when they got there they gave me stern warning about punching him and breaking his nose. they picked him up and put him in their car before talking 2 me and getting my statement. sorry about the language but im really pissed off.
i was just wondering what every1 else would do. im thinking now it could have ended very badly for me, but it was a spur of the moment decision and i hate people like that. get a job and earn money like all the decent people around.
cheers. poketz
callum
Posts: 417
Date Joined: 29/10/08
seriously?
are you actually serious? sorry
but you have the right, if, like you say he used a knife, you have the right to use your fists within resonable force to defend yourself.
happy fishing
dazza336
Posts: 71
Date Joined: 19/02/10
He deserved it
I would see it as self defense he has a weapon you dont
Paully
Posts: 3246
Date Joined: 15/08/09
Good Job Mate
He got everything he deserved, the a#@hole.
barneyboy
Posts: 1392
Date Joined: 08/01/09
probably the same thing..
would have probably put the spare on and chucked him in the boot and taken him for a wild ride around the hood?????dropped him off a few suburbs away, gone home and enjoyed the six pack alot????
FEEEISH ONNN!!!
Bones76
Posts: 476
Date Joined: 03/11/08
Good on ya!!
Good on ya!!
poketz
Posts: 119
Date Joined: 13/05/09
unfortunatly i dnt have a
unfortunatly i dnt have a boot i have a patrol, i just really wanted to see some justice done, i have been mugged when i was 13 and it felt good to reverse the roles and see him get driven away
Man Overboard
Posts: 957
Date Joined: 16/01/10
He should think himself
He should think himself lucky that all he got away with is a broken nose. I applaude you, personally I would have taken the knife off him and jammed it fair up his clacker.
Assuming I was in a forgiving mood
Faulkner Family
Posts: 18333
Date Joined: 11/03/08
good on ya mate, but
good on ya mate, but probably wasnt the smartest thing to do if it was a knife. just as easily been you carried away, not by cops but by the cronor in a body bag.hope no charge comes on you, it may end up a case of asault on your side
RUSS and SANDY. A family that fishes together stays together
poketz
Posts: 119
Date Joined: 13/05/09
yeh i relised that
yeh i relised that afterwards, it was just heat of moment i think. im no small puppy at 6ft and 110kgs plus i had just finished work and looked pretty dodgy in my work clothes, i guess if some1 is that desperate it doesnt matter who it is. im just glad it was me and not some elderly lady or young girl that could not defend thereself. im glad hes off the streets so there is 1 less 2 worry about
mikestan
Posts: 92
Date Joined: 12/01/10
well done
i would have done the same thing mate. god dam it my blood is boiling at this. the only thing i would have done different is jumped on his hands or a knee to give him a constant reminder that there are people out there that are fed up with low life scum. then let him prove you did it. if some thing in this world doesnt change soon there will be more people trying this and then we have a serious problem. At least your ok ok walked away. Wonder if he expected that to happen.
grayzeee
Posts: 2283
Date Joined: 09/07/09
well done mate, bloody
well done mate, bloody brilliant
can't believe the police reaction but thats the state of it these days.
the crims get protected by the law sometimes
If I spent half as long fishing , as I do reading this bloody forum , I'd be twice the fisherman I am.
piston broke
Posts: 776
Date Joined: 05/11/08
What would i do?
im not as brave as you , so i would have handed everything over. This is a great story, good on you. Pete
sarcasm0
Posts: 1396
Date Joined: 25/06/09
Good Work Pocketz
Far to much of that sort of behaviour going around. My Gf's mum works for a large perth caravan place, the owner is 82, he was driving along in his 4wd with caravan on the back and saw a cyclist who was out of the cycle lane and a bit wobbly. So the old fella gives him a toot with the horn to let him know there was a 4wd/caravan comming through. Goes past the bloke and later on the road pulls up at a set of lights. Next thing he knows the cyclist is banging on the passenger door. So he gets out to see what the problem is and the cyclist in his 20's has up and thumped him!
Another person fortunately came along and pulled this twat off of the old fella and had a go at him "what the hell do you think you are doing, he's an old man! You are bloody lucky that wasnt my father etc..."
Dunno if they got the blokes ID and are going to press charges, but FFS an 82 year old man! WTF!
poketz
Posts: 119
Date Joined: 13/05/09
i honestly dnt get some
i honestly dnt get some people aye. whats the point in takin on an 82 yr old? he was doing the right thing and let him know he was coming, what a wanker, i thing i cnt handle is people picking on somebody defenceless or an easy target (i dnt like to think myself as either) i was just lucky he didnt see it coming and dropped the knife after the 1st hit.
Tony Halliday
Posts: 2500
Date Joined: 14/06/07
I'm a South African, they
I'm a South African, they would have taken him to the morgue and not a holding cell.
Coppers tell you that cause the social welfare twits want to rehabilitate him with his good looks to get a job, so he can smile and rob you again.
You did the right thing, if you can handle yourself and willing to take them on one on one.
If you not able to handle yourself and you could be endangering your family, then give and walk away.
It's a hard call and I have had it with a gun in my face before, one I won and the other I walked away from ....
Tony Halliday: ~Meals on Reels ~
It takes a strong fish to swim against the current. Even a dead one can float with it
"It is always in season for old men to learn." Aeschylus (525-456 BC)
"In a mad world only the mad are sane." Akira Kurosawa (1910-1998)
poketz
Posts: 119
Date Joined: 13/05/09
if it was a gun i would have
if it was a gun i would have just handed everything over and then called the cops with some1 elses fone. i personally dont like to fight unless i have to but i was already in a bad mood and this didnt help.
hlokk
Posts: 4293
Date Joined: 04/04/08
It might sound
It might sound counter-intuitive, but if you're going to get shot, or get stabbed, you're better off getting shot. Stabbings are 3-4 times more fatal than gunshot wounds in practice. Link. Thats for stabs though, slashes can be very dangerous too. A knife in the hands of someone who knows how to use it is very lethal (so is a gun, but few professionally trained gunslingers will mug you), which is probably why the cops gave you an earful.
poketz
Posts: 119
Date Joined: 13/05/09
yeh i completly understand
yeh i completly understand were u are coming from on this one. i normally wouldnt do it but something just clicked i gess, im getting sick of all these people getting away with everything. 3 weeks ago my mates dad got attacked in his own home with a tomahawk, he didnt do anything wrong and he nearly didnt survive (slashed across the head neck and chest then beaten over the head with the other side of it), all the person got was a break and enter charge and an assualt charge
roberta
Posts: 2773
Date Joined: 08/07/08
Yes Tony and everybody else
agree, my auntie had a good friend that came from SA, immigrated here as her girlfriend was getting out of her car from shopping was shot dead in her drive way, know where you are coming from.
Poketz so glad you took this scum on and survived, good on you. Old fart has a cheater bar in the 4x4, rifle in the gun safe, machete under the bed. It disgusting when you were defending yourself that the cops weren't very helpful. My dad taught sister and I how to get out of a sticky situation, have used it once, raised the knee and run like hell, till the government introduces much tougher laws, this has and will get worse. Old fart always stands next to me if I go to the ATM.
Ginger Tablets Rock
Hobie-Wan
Posts: 119
Date Joined: 04/10/08
Hell yeah! You're a hero.
Hell yeah! You're a hero.
Typical cop attitude. They beleive they have a monopoly on force. That makes me more sick than the mugger actually.
I can't say what I would have done. Would depend on that instant on sizing up the situation, just as you did... In an instant you weighed up the odds and went for it, and it was the right choice!
till
Posts: 9358
Date Joined: 21/02/08
All these people bagging the
All these people bagging the cops - grow up.
The only reason they warn you against not just giving the guy with the knife your key/wallet/whatever is because they cop even more crap when people get stabbed.
You can't seriously expect the cops to give you a backslap and shake your hand for that sort of thing, the media would just go crazy.
Wreckless
Posts: 92
Date Joined: 02/11/09
Shows you what dickheads we have for cops here
and what a jackass of a legal system.
You should have stuck the knife in his eye, wiped your prints off the handle and buggered off - its less hassel for everybody
Paully
Posts: 3246
Date Joined: 15/08/09
yeah but you'd still call them Wreckless
if you had a problem you wanted them to sort - and i have no doubt, after reading your post - That they would probably think the same of you!!
kaney68
Posts: 401
Date Joined: 29/07/08
Well done pocketz !!
Glad to see this prick got what he deserved !
Not sure how the legal system works, but in my mind a knife in the back v's a fist in the face.....
I don't think you have too much to worry about..It was self defence, using reasonable force/means.
Glad all ended well - at least for you anyway
poketz
Posts: 119
Date Joined: 13/05/09
im not bagging the cops or
im not bagging the cops or anything, they got there very quick and were very helpful. it was more a your lucky to have not gotten injured warning and that i was lucky he didnt have freinds nearby. the cops said there will not be any charges placed against me as they saw it reasonable force (got the call thismorning). but as i said it was mainly just luck that he dropped the knife on the first hit or it could have been a very differnt story. i congratulate the police on there actions and swift respnse to my call
Rodrat
Posts: 1672
Date Joined: 13/01/07
Well done
People should stand up for themselves.
If i was you i would have laid the boot in a few more times and then left. Mugger will get a slap on the wrist and be back out doin the same thing to someone else!!!! A good flogging may make them think twice about doing it again.
FISH FOR THE FUTURE
dannyg
Posts: 77
Date Joined: 28/01/10
poketz
morally and ethically, I think that you did the right thing, this no hoper was quite qilling to put your life at risk to obtain your posessions, yet as soon as you do something back, you are suddenly the 'criminal'. The police have a point as to your safety being at risk in fighting back, but the fact of the matter is, if you felt comfortable doing it, then you obviously had some confidence in your abilities.
The only thing that people would have to be careful of is detaining the person till the police came ie be careful of being accused of entrapment...which is an easier thing than most people think....even the assumption that the person being allegedly detained having the thought that they are being detained and there is no way out, is cause enough for a charge of entrapment.
I think the guy had it coming, unfortunatly the law has a different opinion.
sarcasm0
Posts: 1396
Date Joined: 25/06/09
Deprivation of liberty
Not Entrapment I believe.
poketz
Posts: 119
Date Joined: 13/05/09
i didnt even know about
i didnt even know about that. i thought it was a citizens arrest lol, they didnt say anything about that, is it still possible for me to be charged with that now? in my line of work i cannot have a criminal record, i seriously just thort i was doing the right thing and not beating him to a pulp and leaving him there unconcious and bleeding, its the first time i have considered fighting back as normally i just think that my possesions are replacable.
dannyg
Posts: 77
Date Joined: 28/01/10
poketz
I am only a law student, so am not able to give advice.....but seriously I wouldn't worry about it.....
They would have a hard time trying to prove anything like that, as what you did could easily be proven as self-defence. Also, the alleged 'criminal' would have to want to press charges, as it is known as a 'trespass to person' therefore the only persona able to initiate it would be the person that was allegedly "falsely imprisoned".
Even if it did get to court, the judge would most likely brush it aside due to the fact that the person was assaulting, battering, and robbing you at the time of it all.
dont sweat mate....all is good.
Wrassassin
Posts: 102
Date Joined: 01/03/09
Wow
I guess you don't really have time to think what action you're going to take, once the adrenillin kicks in it's fight or flight and usually it's not a consious decision.
Well done on holding back with just an arse kicking, he definatley deserved it.
I don't know what i'd do.
dannyg
Posts: 77
Date Joined: 28/01/10
sarcasm0
entrapment = false imprisonment (law of torts - trespass to the person).
"False imprisonment occurs where the defendant, by a direct act, totally deprives the plaintiff of freedom of movement, without lawful justification or excuse.", "plaintiff needs only establish the total restraint, then onus shifts to defendant to prove a lawful justification in order to escape liability."
sarcasm0
Posts: 1396
Date Joined: 25/06/09
Maybe im wrong, but I was thinking of this definition
http://www.cla.asn.au/0805/index.php/articles/2007/where-there-s-smoke-there-s-mirrors
The term ‘entrapment’ has a unclear and controversial history in British, and thus also Australian, law. There is no precise definition of entrapment, but at its simplest it involves
[t]he act of a law enforcement agent of inducing a person to commit an offence which the person would not have, or was unlikely to have, otherwise committed.1
Im pretty sure if Pocketz had bundled him into the boot and dropped him off somewhere he would have been charged with deprivation of liberty. I have seen a few case files similar to that example.
dannyg
Posts: 77
Date Joined: 28/01/10
sarcasm0
it seems that you are correct. Very interesting how the terminology is used in the lectures that i attended at uni relating to torts as well.
To clarify, what i was meaning, was false imprisonment as a law of torts in trespass, perhaps the use of entrapment on my behalf was wrong., if you replace the word entrapment, with false imprisonment, from my posts, the rest still stands in my opinion.
thanks for correcting me.
sarcasm0
Posts: 1396
Date Joined: 25/06/09
Yep no worries
I was a bit confused over terminology, but a google search of "entrapment australia definition" returns some interesting results - cases against terrorists being based on evidence gained by police entrapment, the cigarette case in the link in the other post.
Cheers for offering useful info and insight from a law student also.
Paully
Posts: 3246
Date Joined: 15/08/09
No it doesn't stand dannyg
The issue of detaining the a$#hole in this instance is not, well lets say - Not an issue.
scottnofish
Posts: 1621
Date Joined: 28/08/07
a friend off mine
once caught a little native prick in his back yard so he gave him a clip around the ears threw him in the car and took him for a long drive out bush the next day he was arrested for deprivation of liberty and got 6 years in jail , so be very carfull how you deal with these pricks
mcollier_84
Posts: 31
Date Joined: 23/01/10
where was this??
where was this??
Carpe Diem "Sieze the Day"
poketz
Posts: 119
Date Joined: 13/05/09
belmont, was just passing
belmont, was just passing through on the way hm from work so i thought i would get some beer to relax when i got home.
mcollier_84
Posts: 31
Date Joined: 23/01/10
Glad I have moved to Karratha
Glad I have moved to Karratha
Carpe Diem "Sieze the Day"
poketz
Posts: 119
Date Joined: 13/05/09
just a bit of an update,
just a bit of an update, apprently this wasnt his first offence, he has been charged with armed robbery and assault with a deadly weopn before. he has been formally charged with armed robbery and will face court soon. cheers for all the support and the help with understanding legal issues lol.
cheers poketz
wazzbat
Posts: 977
Date Joined: 19/01/10
Ok We get it! Lol. Hope
Ok We get it! Lol. Hope they lock him up for a bit. I don't trust the justice system at all though. At least you got a good one in though. Good work!
I fish for the future - Cause I can't bloody catch anything!
Paul H
Posts: 2104
Date Joined: 18/01/07
Good on ya I say, I'd guess
Good on ya I say,
I'd guess regardless of what the cops said you'd be very unlikely to be charged given he instigated it and he had a knife. If so pleading self defence would likely get you off with no charge recorded given it doesnt sound like you went overboard. The cops likely said what they said due to the fact taking someone on with a knife is very dangerous and they don't want to be seen as recommending that type of action.
Hlokk is spot on - knives are more dangerous than a gun at close range due to the way they can be used. A gun has to point directly at you to shoot you whereas a knife doesn't, you can't grab a knife (you can grab thier knife hand but you have to be good to do this (i.e trained) whereas you can grab a gun. -if its semi auto grab it on top and push the slide back and it can no longer fire then twist it out of thier hands. Not recommending anyone try it though unless you have no choice (i.e. their intent is to kill you regardless. If their just after money give it to them, it's replacable - your not.
Cheers
Paul
Youtube Channel - FishOnLine Productions
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCbUVNa-ViyGm_FTDSv4Nqzg/videos
big john
Posts: 8786
Date Joined: 20/07/06
Good on ya
Well done poketz, good to see the good guys coming out on top for a change.
How's the poor teenager who had his throat slashed today on a melbourne tram. So few people in Oz, so many arseholes.
WA based manufacturer and supplier of premium leadhead jigs, fligs, bucktail jigs, 'bulletproof' soft plastic jig heads and XOS bullet jig heads.
Jigs available online in my web store!
schecky
Posts: 1645
Date Joined: 25/08/08
your a legend, good on
your a legend, good on ya!
big adrenaline rush i bet!
Cammos
Posts: 606
Date Joined: 30/06/09
Well done mate, huge balls
Well done mate, huge balls of steel I say. Even though I am over 6 feet and big enough to be scarey I reckon I would hand it all over now that I have kids. Too much to lose in my mind.
Now some advise for me. I keep a nine iron, an ali baseball bat and a roll of gaffer tape by the bed for those unwanted visitors. My plan has always been catch the bastard (always the hardest part for me), hit him until he stays still, and then hog tie him with the tape, then call the cops, then pop him on the front lawn and whack the sprinklers on for good measure. Would I get in trouble?
My back ups are my 3 neighbours. I have a cop on one side, an ex Muay Thai Australian champion on another, and an angry little Englishman across the road. Between the 4 of us I think we could deal with most scenarios.
sea-kem
Posts: 15251
Date Joined: 30/11/09
Mate if it was me and I got
Mate if it was me and I got the better of him I would have kicked his arse so hard that he couldn't sit down for a couple of weeks. Good on ya about time some justice was handed out. After seeing that old couple beaten up in their own home make my blood boil>
Love the West!
tournament
Posts: 376
Date Joined: 10/11/09
good job
good job
Ashenfall
Posts: 60
Date Joined: 06/01/10
you have to wonder tho
it takes less effort to get a proper job, and also less risky in terms of getting arrested or even worse. It's also a stable source of money compared to random muggings, u get more from working a 5 hour shift at maccas than holding up some random. so what goes on in the minds of these bogans to make decide to mug someone is something that just confuses me.
and personally if these sort of people get caught we need to throw them out of australia or chuck em on christmas island or something. screw the idea of giving them a second chance i say. they screwed up, they need to be punished for it.