Shark bay - possession limit decrease
I just came across the screenshot below, from good old FB. It sounds as though a trip/possession limit of 10kgs demersal will be introduced to the shark bay marine park. This was triggered by a bunch of Shark Bay locals that whinged about the amount of fish frames in the fillet table bins from the July 2020 school holidays. At the time, there was a long window of exceptional weather, and the problem was amplified by the regional bans being lifted just before the holidays, and the metro population not being able to travel internationally, generally taking their winter holidays between Kalbarri and Karratha
from my understanding, recfishwest did a survey, and they and the consensus were against this proposal? I'm not sure if it's true yet, and still trying to get confirmation. But it's interesting that they are (apparently) introducing this without any studies on take, stocks, etc.
Sea goat
Posts: 941
Date Joined: 26/03/17
Interesting. Im sure thisis
Interesting. Im sure thisis goign to raise a lot of mixed responses.
just my personal opinion, i think its a good idea. reckon towns like shark bay will be conituing to have incresed presssure over the next year or 2 due to travel in wa, and although this is entirely subjective, it seems a lot more people have boats right now!
10kg is still a lot. (well for me it is anyway lol!) might be a bit of a knee jerk reaction, but worst case scenario, its too conservative, and the stocks will increase, then restrictions will lift and we will have an excellent resource. On the other hand if we waited too long, then much harder to undo the damage once its done.
we are so lucky in wa to have such an amazing fishery. less fish in the freezer means more in the ocean to catch next time. :)
like i said, just my personal opinion.
stricko
Posts: 222
Date Joined: 10/05/10
30 kilo mack equals 20 kilo
30 kilo mack equals 20 kilo of fillets doesn't happen every day but if you hunt big fish possession limits suck .
Stevo81
Posts: 1278
Date Joined: 16/04/12
it's either the 10/20kg of
it's either the 10/20kg of fillets or ones days bag limit of whole fish so can you can keep your 30kg Mack amd some
•••••••• Electrical Contractor NOR ••••••••
SpotHound
Posts: 439
Date Joined: 06/02/14
The Mayor
Its basically driven by the Mayor up there, he reckons too many tourists taking his fish and that they sharks take 3 fish for evryone landed, so 20 Kg is way to much.
Sea goat
Posts: 941
Date Joined: 26/03/17
thats actually a really good
thats actually a really good point....the amount of fish lost to shakrs on the way to obtaining that 20kg would be considerable. maybe allow people to have an extra 10kg of shark fillets to make up for it lol??? ;)
stricko
Posts: 222
Date Joined: 10/05/10
Has sharkbay got a mayor
Has sharkbay got a mayor probably a ceo of local council and not a very big one at that and he has a say in fisheries mangment now f#ckif thats not handballing by the fisheries what is .
sea-kem
Posts: 14857
Date Joined: 30/11/09
So recfishwest, the
So recfishwest, the organisation that's meant to support rec fishos endorses this crap. Once again we are being hung out to dry without a voice. Where's the research that shows there's a dramatic depletion of fish stocks in that area. No consultation once again just a kneejerk decision.
Love the West!
Billcollector
Posts: 2006
Date Joined: 16/05/09
Well said Andy,Tourism all
Well said Andy,
Tourism all the way up the coast is being overtaken by greenies that want to see no activity on the water to save our oceans. I have fished a fair bit out of Monkey Mia a lot of years ago and saw first hand what happens when spawning pinks are targeted. The recs got the blame but nothing was ever mentioned about the pro boat sitting on the aggregation until the boat was overflowing, night after night. Department of conservation don't give a fuck about what recs spend on their holiday . They live in their own little fucked up world.
Recfishwest are funded by the government even though we are paying more and more for the privelige of going out. They are a suido gov department that has got top heavy over the last few years.
In all the years we went there the bulk of recs did the right thing with the odd one filling freezers .Rarely did we go home with 20kg of fish .
Stopped off at Monkey Mia 2 years ago for a look and now RAC run it it is obvious they are chasing the 3 day tourist over the longer term pensioners. I personnally won't be going back there.
Lastchance
Posts: 1272
Date Joined: 02/02/09
Spot on BC, its funny how the
Spot on BC, its funny how the only people that seem to defend the pro's are ex-pros. The perception that every family on the yearly trip north is raping the sea is an age old fallacy. The people that think we are all out there raping the sea are most likely the ones out there raping the sea.
Curndog
Posts: 441
Date Joined: 21/11/16
It's fucking load of
It's fucking load of bullshit. Cull the fucken sharks that are everywhere and then 20kgs is fuck all. I'm so over this stupidity. I'm guessing steep point is included in this???
Chinbald
Posts: 315
Date Joined: 21/02/09
I so want to lose my shit on this subject.
Unfortunately fisherman are fucked in the current world. Not helped by Mayors that think they are Ministers.
Bit like the Freo Mayor. God help us. Reminds me of the movie Strictly Ballroom,
sea-kem
Posts: 14857
Date Joined: 30/11/09
Freo Mayor's a clown, I know
Freo Mayor's a clown, I know someone who works with his sister and apparently she's a bigger nut job.
Love the West!
scotto
Posts: 2470
Date Joined: 21/04/08
Shark bay locals
They are blaming this reaction from the July school holidays, where they were emptying THE (one only) fish frame bin, up to 4 times a day, compared to once a day normally at the same time. They selectively forgot that they didn't have to empty the bins once in over 3 months, due to the regional bans prohibiting ANY tourists getting up there at all.
stricko
Posts: 222
Date Joined: 10/05/10
Be interesting to see what
Be interesting to see what recfish have to say about this i don't always believe what you read unless it's endorsed by the ones saying it they did a survey a while ago and i would have thought all members would have called it out for the bullshit that it is .I've been a member of rec fish from the start and is part of my club membership but if this turns out to be true th r y can stick it up their ass.will wait and see can't believe everything you read especially in a shire newsletter
Boppo
Posts: 214
Date Joined: 08/03/09
Go to 10kg while covid is hangimg around
then back to 20 kg when alot of travellers go overseas again to the raped and pilliged places elesewhere
Boppo
Posts: 214
Date Joined: 08/03/09
and start knocking off a few sharks would be great
they are outa control!
dano83
Posts: 790
Date Joined: 25/05/12
As if anyone is going to
As if anyone is going to Treck to dirk hartog to go fishing now...wth that limit they will be whining about the loss of tourists next
BigJevans
Posts: 92
Date Joined: 07/09/18
Similar to Abrolhos?
Would it not be a similar limit to the Abrolhos? in that yes its a 10kg fillet limit OR a 1 days bag limit?
In that case youre still able to keep 5 demersals and 3 pelagics (better than the Abrolhos) so for those worried about "chasing big fish" wouldnt 8 big fish be enough for one person?
Maybe this is to stop people that might fill their freezer with 20kgs of fillets of 501mm snapper from a trip to shark bay?
Plenty of people still fish the Abrolhos with a smaller catch limit that what I assume theyre proposing here.
My thoughts anyway.
dano83
Posts: 790
Date Joined: 25/05/12
Dunno if ya been but a 2
Dunno if ya been but a 2 week stay on that island is a lot of of work and a lot of distance to cover for 10kg of fish
Like a weekend trip on a charter to Abrolhos I'd be happy with 10kg without a doubt
I don't go to fill freezers but halving it's a bit rich...how about drop it to 15 and do some shark mitigation...in my opinion ppl will still will sport fish and fish will get injured damaged on release fishing the cliffs, so what's worse ?
BigJevans
Posts: 92
Date Joined: 07/09/18
Agreed
Agreed it does introduce the risk of people trying to "Upgrade" their fish if theyre trying to get larger fish to fill their bag limit and get as much weight as possible.
little johnny
Posts: 5330
Date Joined: 04/12/11
10 kilo not much
Going to effect tourism .
Gav475
Posts: 393
Date Joined: 16/11/11
Vote
Don't get angry, vote. Fishers and hunters are going the way of the dodo. We have an election coming and the only way we can preserve our lifestyle is to support law makers who support us. The majors are all aligned with the greens and there are a couple of other options who support us. We can bang our chests all we want in these forums but the only way to make a difference is to vote wisely. Do your research and try to make a difference by doing something constructive
Gav475
Posts: 393
Date Joined: 16/11/11
Duck hunting
Just watching the announcement on the ban on duck hunting. We have had a number of manually operated firearms banned on appearance grounds and on and on it goes. It is time we all as a group said to our regulators enough is enough. They even seized a persons firearms in Victoria for s covid breach of not wearing a mask. We need to make a change of who is making decisions around these issues as clearly it is not by people involved in it.
Rig
Posts: 2925
Date Joined: 27/12/06
Shark Bay
For LBG fishing at Steep point/False entrance and Dirk Hartog this is a real blow as going to the effort of heading there as those who do it will know is simply not worth it for what equates to 2 small/medium mackeral each.
There is potentially an option here to exclude people fishing the outer regions of the bay from shore
Suggest to all impacted contact Recfishwest and fisheries to have your say, having a vent on here or social media is fine but wont have an impact at the end of the day
Billcollector
Posts: 2006
Date Joined: 16/05/09
Is a mackeral a dimersal?
Is a mackeral a dimersal?
Curndog
Posts: 441
Date Joined: 21/11/16
No
Nope. Pelagic
Billcollector
Posts: 2006
Date Joined: 16/05/09
Yep thats what i thought.
Yep thats what i thought.
Coyote_Dave
Posts: 70
Date Joined: 04/03/13
I read it as 10kg dimersal
I read it as 10kg dimersal scale fish fillets so macks would not be included?
rob90
Posts: 1522
Date Joined: 06/02/13
I hate coming home from two
I hate coming home from two rocks with out 10kg of fillets. Stuff going all that way and effort for 10
Hi my name is rob............. and I'm a........... fishaholic
Shark1
Posts: 1084
Date Joined: 21/05/12
" 10kg demersal fillets"so
" 10kg demersal fillets"
so mackies still on the menu for LBG fishing
Rig
Posts: 2925
Date Joined: 27/12/06
skin on
This would require them to further change the rule to be skin on fillet with a minimum length for those it applies too.
If you read closely what's written it says reduced for 20 to 10
then says reducing demersal's to 10, don't be fooled by the ambiguity of the statement its 10kg possession limit of fillets
Curndog
Posts: 441
Date Joined: 21/11/16
Not sure what you guys are on
Not sure what you guys are on about. Wasn't the 20kg limit beforehand a mixture of all fish?? The way I read it, it's now 10kg. Demersal or non demersal dosent matter 10kg of fillets. Correct me if I'm wrong
Rig
Posts: 2925
Date Joined: 27/12/06
agree
Yes that's exactly my point its a blanket without thought "proposed' change
sea-kem
Posts: 14857
Date Joined: 30/11/09
That's the way I see it
That's the way I see it too.
Love the West!
Bradmac73
Posts: 176
Date Joined: 22/03/17
Could be Either??
The way I read it is, the first paragraph states 10kg of fillets, which is what the shire proposed and does not discuss pelagic v demersal. The second paragraph states that refishwest supports a 10kg limit on demersal scale fish fillets. So I assume the council proposed a blanket and recfishwest supported demersal limit change only???
So the outcome will be entirely dependant on which of these two positions the drafting of the legislation reflects.
Belly Fish
Posts: 499
Date Joined: 09/03/12
Skin on
Does that mean we will have the leave the skin to tell it's a demersal, then they'll want them to be 30cm fillets
Skull
Posts: 630
Date Joined: 03/01/12
Minority
Minority getting their way over the Majority again
No common sense, no data except for a full bin of supposedly fish remains
How much of the rubbish in the bin was actually fish and how much was actually old bait, packaging etc that responsible fishers don't throw into the ocean
Can't have your cake and eat it too, People will simply bypass this spot and fish elsewhere, the Mayor or whatever he/she is should be very careful of what they wish for.
Skull
Woodsy65
Posts: 162
Date Joined: 21/05/15
Wasnt that long ago that
Wasnt that long ago that Shark Bay Pink Snapper fishery had according to experts almost collapsed. They put in place a lottery system to win a tag to be able to catch/keep one pink snapper.
Now that system has gone because the stocks have recovered, yet is still some rules around catching/keeping Pinkies. The local business owners i spoke to during the lottery system where concerned for their futures as the tourists (fisherpeople) stopped going to Shark Bay.
20kg of fillets is a lot, but would only be the very few who are good enough to get their limits - I am certainly not one of them!
Fair enough if unbiased science indicates there is a threat to the fish stocks, but for a mayor to call for it because his garbo doesnt like the smell of fish or for some other excuse!
What alternative is the mayor going to offer us fisherpeople to visit the joint to spend our money to keep his/her town going?
Mark_M
Posts: 158
Date Joined: 10/04/15
DPIRD
This was the department's response in Sept last year after the Shire proposed the change in July last year.
"...The Department of Primary Industry and Regional Development (DPIRD) director for aquatic resource management, Nathan Harrison, said there had been an increase in recreational fishing on the Gascoyne and Pilbara coasts.
He said the department, "as a science-based agency", would compile information "to try and manage fish stocks in the most responsible way" rather than though kneejerk reactions.
"We're about to commence a new survey, which will go for a 12-month period around the state, which will look at monitoring recreational catch on a state-wide basis," he said.
"That will provide us with a good benchmark to look at what's happening."
It will be interesting to see if the 12 month period holds or if the benchmark is fasttracked due to political pressure :-)
Jackfrost80
Posts: 8050
Date Joined: 07/05/12
When was it a local Shire's
When was it a local Shire's role to manage a State fishery? The Mayor is Brad Pettitt's brother is he? There is a Council election coming up in October and this has all the hallmarks of Shire Councilors pandering to vocal local residents to avoid being given the boot come election time.
Officially off the Pies bandwagon
Rig
Posts: 2925
Date Joined: 27/12/06
recfishwest
The shires statement name drops recfishwest, but I am unsure of their stance on this for the time being
Bradmac73
Posts: 176
Date Joined: 22/03/17
How do you catch 20kgs?
My go to place in the bay is Tamala (or was until it closed) which since the end of the pink snapper tag lottery has had a 5 kilo trip limit per person across ALL species, not just demersals. We stick to the limit, as do most others I've come across up there and I can't say that the 5kg limit has ever effected my enjoyment of any of the numerous trips I've done up there. In fact I kept going back year after year in full awareness of this limit.
Last time I was in Denham a group of 6 blokes came home with around 5 kilo of fillets between us. Mainly due to the weather across the 6 days but under the proposed new regs we could we would have still had 55kgs of fish we could have caught. It was one of the best fishing trips I've ever been on, mates, beers, some fishing but mostly just a good bloody time.
Whilst I understand the cost of trip v bag limit argument, if this is your sole fishing imperative, then go to the shop and buy fish, I don't think I've ever gone fishing and come home with more $ value of fish than it's cost me in accomodation, petrol, bait, lures, and grog, let alone the ongoing cost of boat maintenance etc, I doubt it's possible, (20kg of Red emperor fillets at $65 a kilo is $1300, which is about the same as my beer budget) but that's not what it's about.
I agree that the decision making mechanism in this instance seems somewhat based on assumption and the subjective views of a few (see the link), but I would also argue that the majority of the commentary I have seen on this topic across this and other forums presenting a vitriolic defence of our right to "fill the freezer" as they call it, does nothing but play into the unsupported claims that these people are using to substantiate their position. That is, that everyone who sets foot in Shark Bay is there with the express intention of bringing home a freezer full of fish. Which we know is not the case.
here's the link to the minutes of the meeting where this motion was passed. Page 72 to save you trawling through the rest. Shows that this was entirely based on a couple of local's opinions only. https://www.sharkbay.wa.gov.au/Profiles/sharkbay/Assets/ClientData/Document-Centre/Ordinary-Council-Meetings/2020/Minutes/Minutes29072020.pdf
Jackfrost80
Posts: 8050
Date Joined: 07/05/12
From the Minutes:Example 1:
From the Minutes:
Example 1: Mr and Mrs Jones with their three children visit Shark Bay. Mr and Mrs Jones have a 20-foot boat and current licence to fish from the boat. Over the two weeks they stay at Denham, fishing within the current regulation, they catch 40 kilograms of filleted fish within the first 4 days. They can continue to fish however giving two of their children 20 kilograms of fish each. After the two-week trip to Denham their total fish caught is 100 kilograms of fish fillet (approximately 250 kilograms of whole fish). Each member of the family can possess 20 kilograms each under current regulation.
If four members of the family can possess 20kg then how do they end up with 100kg unless I'm missing something?
Example 2: Bob and Barry come to Denham for 6 weeks each year with their boat and current fishing licenses. Their partners visit several times during their stay, on each trip they take back home the catch whilst Bob and Barry continue fishing. They can continue to fish provided they do not exceed the 20-kilogram fillet possession limit in Shark Bay. Their partners can then have other friends and family possess their fillets until they are needed.
Would anyone's missus on here do round trips from Perth to Shark Bay and back several times just to pick up fillets?
Officially off the Pies bandwagon
sea-kem
Posts: 14857
Date Joined: 30/11/09
I find the examples in here
I find the examples in here totally laughable :
Example 1: Mr and Mrs Jones with their three children visit Shark Bay. Mr and Mrs Jones have a 20-foot boat and current licence to fish from the boat. Over the two weeks they stay at Denham, fishing within the current regulation, they catch 40 kilograms of filleted fish within the first 4 days. They can continue to fish however giving two of their children 20 kilograms of fish each. After the two-week trip to Denham their total fish caught is 100 kilograms of fish fillet (approximately 250 kilograms of whole fish). Each member of the family can possess 20 kilograms each under current regulation.
Example 2: Bob and Barry come to Denham for 6 weeks each year with their boat and current fishing licenses. Their partners visit several times during their stay, on each trip they take back home the catch whilst Bob and Barry continue fishing. They can continue to fish provided they do not exceed the 20-kilogram fillet possession limit in Shark Bay. Their partners can then have other friends and family possess their fillets until they are needed.
The Fisheries Officers have confirmed these are plausible scenarios and fall within current regulation of the possession limits. The Fisheries Officers would also like to see a reduction as the current rules restrict them from stopping the stockpiling of fish fillet. This behaviour endangers our fishery into the future for all concerned parties including Recreational, Commercial and Charter. I believe there is no need to change any other Bag Limits or rules currently in place, only the possession amount. Other areas such as the Freycinet Estuary Management Zone (Nanga) have a 5- kilogram.
If Mr and Mrs Jones can catch 100kg of fillets within two weeks then they deserve a trophy because that's never going to happen.
Bob and Barry the two gays fish for 6 weeks, yeah right. Must be the best weather patterns EVER to do that. What a load of codswallop.
Comment I currently have several letters and have been approached by a several rate payers concerning the amount of fish being taken from our local waters with the influx of fishers and recreational vessels to our region and Denham. Also on the minutes.
Well guess what ratepayers you live in a fucken tourist town, if it wasn't for said tourists your town would not exist. I bet none of the local business owners are complaining about the influx of $
And regarding the bag limits it's why a lot of us head north each year so we can spend some hard earned cash on our passion and bring home a supply of good quality fillets vacumn packed that will last for months and create many good family meals. The bag limits are supposdly researched by the 'experts' to be sustainable.
Remember just like metro a lot of factors come in to play just to be able to drop a line in the water most of all the weather. Mr Tinley needs to think good and hard about his decision regarding this. Businesses down here will also suffer as a result if blokes can't go on their yearly run and catch a decent bag.
Love the West!
Bradmac73
Posts: 176
Date Joined: 22/03/17
Agree
Agree completely sea-kem, the Minister needs to base any legislative ammendment on some solid research rather than a few clearly self serving letters from local, who don;t have any trip limit because they are local.
but, as I said a lot of comments doing the rounds make the letters sound more believable, even though we know they are not.
Let's hope Mr Tinley gets his research somewhere other than online forums :-)
Bradmac73
Posts: 176
Date Joined: 22/03/17
Agree
Agree completely sea-kem, the Minister needs to base any legislative ammendment on some solid research rather than a few clearly self serving letters from local, who don;t have any trip limit because they are local.
but, as I said a lot of comments doing the rounds make the letters sound more believable, even though we know they are not.
Let's hope Mr Tinley gets his research somewhere other than online forums :-)
Rig
Posts: 2925
Date Joined: 27/12/06
front bar
looks like this meeting is contributed to by the whos who of the local front bar lol yes a calculator would help Yet to see fisheries backing just a social media post and a few letters to the editor. I would be surprised if a max 10kg limit gets across the line. suspect Tinley wont want to rock the boat before the election either
Curndog
Posts: 441
Date Joined: 21/11/16
Looks like these possession
Looks like these possession limits aren't just shark bay. There going to be statewide
The Saint
Posts: 456
Date Joined: 30/01/13
Have a look at this link,
Have a look at this link, Recfish West email I received today:
https://mailchi.mp/recfishwest.org.au/an-update-on-the-state-wide-possession-limit-review?e=2dd8c55ba4
Skull
Posts: 630
Date Joined: 03/01/12
Fees
I got the email from Recfish West also, to say I am annoyed and confused would be an understatement, why the whole of the state? It doesn't make sense,
Perhaps we should lobby the "Mayor" of Shark Bay to have our Fishing Licence fees halved along with Insurance, Boat and Trailer Registration, a buy back of the gear we now don't need etc etc etc.
To the Whinging Arseholes of Shark Bay, I hope your tourism drops that much that businesses a forced to close, houses are worth nothing and as you are forced to leave town, they place a Mirror in a conspicuous place so you can have a damn good look at yourselves and say we caused this. And why, because for a couple of weeks during school holidays in 2020 we had to emplty the rubbish bin more than usual because we were inundated with responsible fishers who disposed of the rubbush from Bait boxes etc in said bin.
Fuck you all.
Skull
stricko
Posts: 222
Date Joined: 10/05/10
I don't own one but the
I don't own one but the people that own holiday homes in sharkbay the ones that pay the shire rates should be making themselves heard. People don't rent houses for a week or more at a time to look at stromalites and feed dolphins sharkbay is and has always been a fishing town.
Rig
Posts: 2925
Date Joined: 27/12/06
Clarity
At least there was some clarity there from recfishwest, I think the segregation between demersal and pelagic is a good thing across the board
the only way fisheries inspectors can measure this is skin on fillets though
hopefully sonecommon sense prevails here, unlike the statement on the SB FB page
Alan James
Posts: 2206
Date Joined: 30/06/09
...
The clarity provided by the Recfishwest statement is that their recommendation to the Minister was based on the survey results provided by 875 of their members. Should we all feel comforted by that, FFS!!!
Rig
Posts: 2925
Date Joined: 27/12/06
Survey
As opposed to no survey or consultation which is exactly what the minister and dept of fisheries have done to date in this matter
Don't think recfishwest Have done anything wrong in this scenario, if they have then point it out to me
Alan James
Posts: 2206
Date Joined: 30/06/09
...
If Recfishwest had no credible science based data (which they didn't) then they should remain silent rather than basing their recommendation to the dept of fisheries upon the results of a nonsense online survey of 875 of its members.
It's all about science, not opinion.
Rig
Posts: 2925
Date Joined: 27/12/06
Yes that's correct dept of
Yes that's correct dept of fisheries hold the data, and the minister has succumbed to opinion as far as we can see
But your whinging about a survey the Rec representative body conducted, if your not a recfishwest member then you will have to wait and see if the dept fisheries or minister have a survey which doesn't look likely
So there are really only 2 options join rfw and take the opportunity to provide input into the survey next time or find another way to influence the fisheries minister
i just dont think it's helpful taking pot shots at the only fishing body that had rec anglers interests at heart
Alan James
Posts: 2206
Date Joined: 30/06/09
...
I'm not whinging, my point is that if Recfishwest cannot offer any thing other than opinion they should just stfu. I have no issues with Recfishwest and in fact I am a member. Their survey was meaningless, unsupported by science something that the dept of fisheries have been telling us for years and years that their decisions will be based upon. Looks to me like a fisheries cop out that RFW have bought into.
Rig
Posts: 2925
Date Joined: 27/12/06
..
Not sure what your solution is here, its RFW job to comment not produce the science and in this case there doesn't appear to be any science involved aside from alleged bin weights
Agree this could be a cop out, but they either provide counsel to the fisheries minister or say nothing and let whatever the minister comes up with go through unopposed and therefore not be relevant, the history of that is why RFW was formed
I suggest you contact RFW and give them that feedback if you don't want them surveying members and providing the input to the fisheries minister & co
ranmar850
Posts: 2702
Date Joined: 12/08/12
They were taking up to a tonne a day...
...of fish frames from the cleaning area. The place was getting an absolute flogging, and it started as soon as the regional restrictions came off. Which was the end of May. Nothing to do with the labour of having to empty the bins, genuine concern about a prolonged heavy take. I was over at DH September holidays, and doing a lot of meandering along the shallows, between Tumbledown and around Cape Raisonnet, didn't see a single bluebone, not one in four days. If not being able to bring home a freezer full of fillets is your only reason for going somewhere , and be honest, 3 blokes @ 20kg each is a Tucker Box full, well, don't go. If it starts hurting them tourism-wise, well, that's on them. They won't miss the rape and pillage mob, I can assure you.
eziliving
Posts: 865
Date Joined: 30/12/09
they probably wont but do
they probably wont but do you think that the town is going to survive on backpackers wanting to watch the feeding of the dolphin? there is only so much money you can spend in shark bay / monkey mia on the tourism before you have seen all the touristy shit.
Get busy living, or get busy dying!
stricko
Posts: 222
Date Joined: 10/05/10
Yeah and not a good season
Yeah and not a good season for backpackers either land holder's /rate payers of sharkbay should hold their council a countable its a fishing town WA has a enough restrictions and rules letting local governments get involved like opening the gates.
sea-kem
Posts: 14857
Date Joined: 30/11/09
Serious question Ranmar how
Serious question Ranmar how many tonnes do the commercial operators take in a day in that region? Long liners etc. I bet it's a lot more than the recs take in a northern holiday/fishing season which is at best usually 4 months of the year. And as we all know this year is an anomaly with fishing pressure up there. I'm not against some supportive argument if what they are (recfishwest) proposing as long as there's good data to go with it.
Love the West!
Mark_M
Posts: 158
Date Joined: 10/04/15
RFW
Recfishwest emphasize that there is no good data on SB fish stocks or recreational catch/effort in the latest update delivered to email boxes this afternoon.
They use this to qualify their recommendations to the Minister regarding the new 'trip limit' proposal, that specify only 10kg of anglers' (current) possession limit can comprise demersals. They do not suggest changing the overal 20kg limit, only the mix.
And that the new limits would only apply for 12 months or while COVID restrictions are in place. This is however a recommendation for statewide possession limts (as requested by the Minister in Oct 20) not just for Shark Bay.
Interestingly, the RFW survey that forms the content of their recommendations, was only available to members for a week.
Further reading here:
https://recfishwest.org.au/news/seeking-your-views-through-our-possession-limits-survey/?highlight=possession%20limits%20SURVEY&utm_source=Members+First&utm_campaign=632b800621-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2020_10_27_06_24_COPY_01&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_1caa0fe7e8-632b800621-162111401&mc_cid=632b800621&mc_eid=a70bf19da5
https://mailchi.mp/recfishwest.org.au/an-update-on-the-state-wide-possession-limit-review?e=a70bf19da5
Skull
Posts: 630
Date Joined: 03/01/12
Do you really
Do you really think they will change the limits back after 12 months or the end of covid (which will never happen)?
Personally I don't believe they will, does anyone know what % of RFW members had a say in this, they stated the number but I would be interested in either the % and or the total number of members.
Skull
ranmar850
Posts: 2702
Date Joined: 12/08/12
They are not doing that inside the bay.
The concern isn't so much about the ocean take, although there is certainly concern about the flogging around Turtle bay, etc, lots of big fast boats being able to do that easy on a day trip. No, the concern about take is mostly about inside the bay. Yes, there are bag limits, but, do it every day the weather is suitable, with a lot of boats, it adds up quick. Very hard on black snapper, for example. As for commercials, i don't believe there is a commercial demersal long line industry, currently? The wetliners, as we refer to them, are very heavily limited by quota, and that quota is fishing days. Very heavily monitored. As for the annual snapper slaughter of the breeding stock, well, that's a separate issue to this, and we don't want to derail the thread. Believe me, there are a lot of commercial fishermen with very strong feelings about how that has been grossly mismanaged by Fisheries WA, and the resultant decrease in offshore pink snapper stocks in the northern zone.
There are people on here deriding any visitors to Shark Bay not interested in taking home a full freezer as "dolphin feeding hippies, backpackers" etc. Frankly, thats' an ignorant response, and reveals more about you than adding the the weight of argument, to be blunt about it. As to the sheer venom of one poster who said he hopes that they ( Denham)all go broke, have to leave town, lose everything, then look in a mirror--I know who needs to have a good look in a mirror. I realise it was probably a knee jerk reaction post, and you may regret it now, but, if not--you were one of the freezer fillers who actually hates the place, the people, and see it only as a place to catch and fillet. Its remote location is both a blessing and a curse, both to those who live there and those who visit. The Bay has been there a very long time, through ups and downs, and has always survived. And will continue to, whether the freezer fillers care to visit or not. You might find it hard to believe , but there are a lot of people who go up there to actually just enjoy such a unique place, have a few feeds of fresh fish, and bring home little or nothing.
Flame away.
Skull
Posts: 630
Date Joined: 03/01/12
Interesting
Interesting what you say Ranmar,
Yes I did write the post about the place going broke, and no, I don't regret it today,
I am not a frezer filler as you describe, in fact I am a very responsible fisher,
However I am getting a bit annoyed that the amount of fish Recfishers can take is continually going down.
Unfortunately the cost to own and run a boat plus accomodation in these places is going up and up while the take is going down.
You don't have to be a scholar to realise that eventually it will not be worth owning a boat and slowly because of the cost involved people will stop fishing and travelling to fish.
As for having a good look in the mirror I know what I see, an honest person who is not afraid to have an opinion, sadly, I can't respond to others comments like you who comes across thinking he is some sort of renowned Lawyer.
Perhaps you would be better off allowing others to have an opinion.
There are some 750,00 recreational fishers in WA, (RFW figures) and they are going on a survey of less than 900 people,
I took part in that survey by the way, and part of my response was to ask how much of the so called fish frames etc that was placed into bins was put there by loacals who were also enjoying the good weather and the freedom after the lockdown, you know, family memebers up from Perth and going out fishing with them. They claim it was up to a ton a day, I can guarantee no one weighed the bins.
Anyway it is what it is and as usual those that say the least get kicked in the arse again, the squeeky wheel gets the most grease as they say.
Skull
ranmar850
Posts: 2702
Date Joined: 12/08/12
This is the last time I answer in this thread
I've said my piece. Skull, if you think the utter venom you were spewing in your first reply is the simply indication of an " honest man who is not afraid to have an opinion" unquote, well, you hold yourself in high regard. Actually hoping everyone will go broke and have to leave town, and some of the other language and phrasing you used? I gave you the chance to admit you did it in the heat of the moment, as I thought you probably had, but you stand by those comments? And you give it away by saying that with decreased possession limits " it will not be worth owning a boat" unquote. So, your only reason for owning a boat is to have a lot of fillets in a freezer? Not worth having a boat otherwise? You musn't like boats much. I love boats, and love fishing.
And as to your claim " like you who comes across thinking he is some sort of renowned Lawyer." Unquote. Head scratching here on that one. I can only assume that it is because I can use a reasoned and reasonably well expressed argument? I may have a reasonable literacy standard? That's a fault? Using punctuation and phrasing? Whatever, I was expressing MY point of view, as you expressed yours, and you claim that " Perhaps you would be better off allowing others to have an opinion" Unquote. You expressed your opinion, I expressed mine, how is that stopping others having an opinion?
As to my use of the term freezer fillers, I'll stand by my use of that. I will admit I have a deep disregard, to put it mildly, for those who simply want to fill the freezer, as against those who like to fish for the sake of it. It goes back to the days when you saw people drive trayback trucks with big freezers on the back to the bay and the northwest, several families all camped together and going hard every fishable day to fill that truck up. I've seen it happen. Or, after the possession limits first came in, sending their catch back home every few days by freezer truck from Coral bay and Exmouth. The same people who would then whinge that the fishing aint' what it used to be , looking at old pictures of them standing grinning behind a pile of fish they could'nt jump over. And blaming the pros for it all. Glad those days are over, even if some wish they could still do it. There are just too many boats on the water nowadays, too many hooks in the water, for large takes to be sustainable. You know what might happen in the Bay if this continues? Forget worrying about only being able to have 10kg of demersal fillets on the trip home---if Fisheries see any decline, perceived or otherwise, of the Inner Gulfs' pink snapper breeding stock, you are back to the ballot system and one fish per tag.
Chew on that.
Rig
Posts: 2925
Date Joined: 27/12/06
wheres this happening
Your last paragraph there Ranmar, where's the evidence of people actually doing this in July 2020? Or are you just referring to yesteryear practices with no relevance to the current proposed changes
This whole argument has stemmed from alleged fish waste bins having more than usual during a peak holiday period, seeing as there are many assumptions being made I think we can safely assume the locals were making the most of the good weather too
sea-kem
Posts: 14857
Date Joined: 30/11/09
There'd be no evidence of
There'd be no evidence of freezer filling as it just isn't happening, He's just used that to bolster his comment and it's flawed.
It's horses for courses or whatever floats your boat Ranmar as long as it's legal and within current bag limits whether you like it or not. Don't try and lump us in with what people were doing in the 60's and 70's.
Love the West!
Bradmac73
Posts: 176
Date Joined: 22/03/17
no evidence
There'd be no evidence of freezer filling as it just isn't happening.
I love the irony of debunking a baseless claim with an equally baseless claim. haha
Skull
Posts: 630
Date Joined: 03/01/12
Thank you
Thank you for your response Ranmar,
I really dont care too much for what your reply states
I have not attacked you in any personal way and yet you try to sit in judgement of me even though you don't know me
Your accusations against me mean nothing to me, it is not I that was born in January 1953 but you my friend, it was in your era and earlier, perhaps that of your parents that were the "Freezer Fillers"
Have a nice day and chew on that old boy.
Skull
Jackfrost80
Posts: 8050
Date Joined: 07/05/12
I can't see any venom is what
I can't see any venom is what Skull put forward at all. He just stated his opinion on the validity of the claims which seems to have hit a nerve with Ranmar who's taken it personally and gone on the offensive at Skull.
Either way this should fill the void between cricket and footy for the weekend
Officially off the Pies bandwagon
sea-kem
Posts: 14857
Date Joined: 30/11/09
Ranmar you use the term
Ranmar you use the term 'Freezer filler' as almost derogatory.
It's not greed and freezer filling, it's legally catching your limit.
It's the one time a year I get to go away with mates, fish responsibly, drink piss and with no women involved.
I will say this we are entitled to catch our 20kg limit as prescribed by fisheries and the law as it now stands. What is wrong with that? Yep I go to Gnaraloo every year with the mindset of getting my 20kg if possible and don't really give rat's what anyone thinks, it's legal and I'll do it.
And as I said it will feed my family and some of my friends for months on end.
When it gets changed then I will abide by that new law.
But also as mentioned once changed very hard to go back, they'll come up with a bullshit excuse everytime.
Love the West!
Curndog
Posts: 441
Date Joined: 21/11/16
Well said sea kem. Couldn't
Well said sea kem. Couldn't agree more
Rig
Posts: 2925
Date Joined: 27/12/06
freezer filler
"Freezer filler" label is just a legacy of some peoples practices in yesteryear filling 300L tuckerboxes etc
Just a convenient term to pull out in fisheries management arguments
Its bit different to the current max possession of 20kg be it travelling or at home
dano83
Posts: 790
Date Joined: 25/05/12
it would be nice to have the
it would be nice to have the option to catch up to 20 kg on a yearly trip up north to have a decent store to feed the family fresh fish over a few months....it's not it's not like we are retired and have the opportunity to go up n down the coast fishing at leasure on the regular ... we are responsible about the 20kg we take. not like the boat filler generation before hand that would fill the boats to the gunnels on a daily take
Reefsta
Posts: 281
Date Joined: 03/08/19
Snapper summary
Hi Seakem
Your question to Ranmar about commercial take was something to ponder. Came across this FRDC 2019 status report on snapper naitonally (https://www.frdc.com.au/-/media/fish-frdc/frdc-status-of-snapper-in-australia-briefing_v1-july-2019.ashx?la=en) and although the data shown for commercial take is 2016/17, they wrote that total WA Commercial take was 244 tonnes. The report covers a lot of fisheries and areas, but for Shark Bay says "catches of the Western Australian commercial Snapper fishery in Shark Bay have progressively decreased, in spite of substantial management interventions, such that retained catches are below 50% of pre-2003 levels". So the whole snapper fisheriy in WA at that time was <1 tonne per day average. Obviouly it varies by location and time of year, but if a tonne of frames were cleared from the bins each day it would not be a good look, regardless of what the overall take added up to relative to the commercial operators.
Billcollector
Posts: 2006
Date Joined: 16/05/09
Can Shark bay shire give me
Can Shark bay shire give me the accurate weigh bridge certificate on their apparent waste, or have they gone totally green and know how to stretch the truth. The bins at Denham would hold how many kg's of waste multiplied by how many times they get emptied. Fuck me Demhan must have been a parking lot of boats with no room to move.Once again Ranmar has put his opinion forward then retreated. Did you order a new GX 200 after you found out they don't come with manual window winders or did you go for a RAM with fuck all fuel capacity ang not much more payload than a 200?
Jackfrost80
Posts: 8050
Date Joined: 07/05/12
Appears they also sifted
Appears they also sifted through the bins and quantified the percentage of demersal vs non demersal frames too Bill. What an overly efficient regional Council.
Officially off the Pies bandwagon
Chinbald
Posts: 315
Date Joined: 21/02/09
Ranmar appreciate your opinion
But it was a a very good period of catching with a shit load of families, good moon, best weather ever, as I've said before I was up there in October as you were and reckon lucky if they took 20 kg of frames a day. Management decisions need to be made on averages not a single event of good weather and fishing. A lot of effort, luck and weather is required to head wide at any of the northern destinations. Many including myself get a limited time to get away from work, commitments, kids sport etc, when I get that opportunity and the weather gods play I am happy to fish to the current bags without further restrictions and needing a lawyer anytime a fisheries officer appproaches to understand the constantly changing rules.
Chinbald
Posts: 315
Date Joined: 21/02/09
Ranmar appreciate your opinion
But it was a a very good period of catching with a shit load of families, good moon, best weather ever, as I've said before I was up there in October as you were and reckon lucky if they took 20 kg of frames a day. Management decisions need to be made on averages not a single event of good weather and fishing. A lot of effort, luck and weather is required to head wide at any of the northern destinations. Many including myself get a limited time to get away from work, commitments, kids sport etc, when I get that opportunity and the weather gods play I am happy to fish to the current bags without further restrictions and needing a lawyer anytime a fisheries officer appproaches to understand the constantly changing rules.
still trying
Posts: 1020
Date Joined: 27/06/17
That is a good point about
That is a good point about the constantly changing rules, I asked fisheries for a sticker with size limits last time I was checked, no luck. Pretty hard to keep up with all the changes.
rather be fishing
dodgy
Posts: 4563
Date Joined: 01/02/10
I support it as long as the
I support it as long as the professionals get the same reduction.
Does anyone know where the love of god goes, when the waves turn the minutes to hours?
Billcollector
Posts: 2006
Date Joined: 16/05/09
That will never happen.
That will never happen.
little johnny
Posts: 5330
Date Joined: 04/12/11
Look at cockburn
From what I’ve been told fisheries think there is no crab stock. And doesn’t look like it will ever open. Joke , this year is the most I have seen for years .Turn it to trophy waters, don’t take females.
Shark1
Posts: 1084
Date Joined: 21/05/12
the sharks are a much bigger
the sharks are a much bigger problem than any fishing effort by humans atm
from 58 hookups for our campsite, we managed to land 5 spaniards and 2 heads at steep pt last month- 3 tackle failure/pulled hooks
saw plenty others with same issue
Curndog
Posts: 441
Date Joined: 21/11/16
That's an utter joke isn't
That's an utter joke isn't it. Wtf is wrong with all these cockheads calling the shots. Too scared to do something about sharks or the Greeny's and pestacore will have a fucking cry. I remember going up to Exmouth as kid / teenager and we would fish over near the Murion islands with a wire trace and gang hook with Mulie. All's we would do was bait cast and if you didn't pick up a mackie or travelly on way down then would pick up a demersal. Honestly don't even remember ever getting sharked. That was 20 odd years ago so just shows how quickly the sharks have become completely out of control.
Lastchance
Posts: 1272
Date Joined: 02/02/09
Maybe after you lost the
Maybe after you lost the first 20 fish to sharks you might have realised that they're doing what comes naturally to them? 5 keepers for every 50 killed, nice one.
Jim
Posts: 1321
Date Joined: 05/05/06
Seems similar to the snapper
Seems similar to the snapper ban area increase in the metro area just based on an interpretation of what is happening with no hard evidence to back it up. bit of a joke if rfw supports it. not suprising really
Bend over
Wayne77
Posts: 59
Date Joined: 10/12/15
while I dont totaly disagree
while I dont totaly disagree with some sort of reduction in kilos of fillets being taken out of the area , could not agree more with the biggest problem they need to adress is the bloody sharks every one that has fished that area in the last three to five years is saying the same thing and no body wants to do anything as it will upset the leftys again . Open up and encourage comercial shark fishing in the area again i would rather be eating shark at the fish and chip shop again as opposed to shity cat fish from some crap filed river system some where and lets call it silver cobbler or basa