Leader Preferences
Submitted by Adam Gallash on Mon, 2005-12-19 17:05
Just wondering what your preference of leader is..?
I tried some 100 pound Jinkai on the weekend for my snelled rigs and ended up snapping 3 out of the 7 rigs i made by testing their strength.. Without exerting lots of pressure i found that they snapped half way between the swivel and the hook, has anyone else had this?
I have been told that Jinkai is only really game leader, but I'm even questioning this after witnessing the line break on several different rigs..
Has anyone got a leader that they think leaves the rest for dead? considering the price you pay as well..
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SHizz
Posts: 1556
Date Joined: 07/08/05
jinkai is a good wind on
jinkai is a good wind on leader, but i dont use it for bottom bouncing. Too soft.
Schnieder 80lb has never failed me for bottom bashing, and ive been using this "Cajun Leader" which is cheapish but similar to schnieder in feel, comes in red so its apparently invisible under water and its been working a treat.
mitch
Posts: 1285
Date Joined: 14/08/05
leader
Salmo
Posts: 913
Date Joined: 15/08/05
I use Black Magic 40, 60, 80
I use Black Magic 40, 60, 80 and 100lb....soft and limp like Jinka but better knots....Black magic doesnt seem to bruise when tightning knots like jinka....but like shizz said....makes good windons
big john
Posts: 8769
Date Joined: 20/07/06
Momoi Monofilament Leader
About 18 months ago I switched over to Momoi Mono Leader and I have'nt looked back. Supple, ties a great knot, and is quite abrasion resistant.
I'am now thinking of experimenting with fluorocarbon leader, in a side by side comparison with the Momoi mono.
Can anyone recommend a good fluorcarbon leader material or have any experiences, good or bad, regarding the use of fluorocarbon leader?
WA based manufacturer and supplier of premium leadhead jigs, fligs, bucktail jigs, 'bulletproof' soft plastic jig heads and XOS bullet jig heads.
Jigs available online in my web store!
Andy Mac
Posts: 4778
Date Joined: 03/02/06
Shizz & Mitch
I'm with you guys on this one. I use Jinkai for wind on leader and also if the hook size on my paternoster is going to be small. Otherwise I use Penn 10x for all my paternoster rigs. Abrasive resistent and a good knot tying material.
Unfortunately as I learnt in Exmouth Penn 10x is a bit too thick to use twisted dropper loops and still get smaller hooks on. I quickly switched to Jinkai when I went down in hook size.
Cheers
Andy Mac (Fishwrecked Reeltime Editor & Forum Moderator)
Youngest member of the Fishwrecked Old Farts Club
honsu chin
Posts: 2086
Date Joined: 20/09/05
I reckon the Penn 10X and
I reckon the Penn 10X and Schnieder are the best value lines in the market atm. I use Penn 10X for most of my fishing......Schnieder is great for bottom bouncing coz its stiff......
Momoi is an awesome line but expensive......flourocarbon.....good if U needed that extra bit more abrasion resistance.....again, expensive.....
I use varivas shock leader and Jinkai for me jigging for sambos simply they are soft line, easy to tie especially in a rocking boat.
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Maverick
Posts: 1261
Date Joined: 06/06/06
Leaders
I have used the Cajun and it wasn't as good as other lines , twisted up something cruel and kept the twist in memory ( it was strong tho but memory is it's downfall for me (how do you find it Shizz).
Surecatch is inexpensive and strong , good knot strength but a bit thicker than others in same weight range and it can be crimped and you even get 10 sleeves in the spool, Penn 10X is still my preferred one , I even buy it to take on Al's boat to use for my own rigs , Al has allways got new stuff onboard and I use that for other rigs etc but fall back on 10X for my own rigs ( got new product comming for this season too), it comes down to what YOU feel happy with and I am happy with 10X for most of my Leaders , except for light stuff then I go for the clear leader lines and I recon 10X is too visible in fresh or super clear shallow water then the expensive fluro carbon comes out .
MAV
JMHO.
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Matt Kleczkowski
Posts: 30
Date Joined: 20/07/06
must agree there
must agree there maverick,
joff weston put me onto sure catch leader and it has been an excellent leader by all accounts.
i remember giving gully heaps of shit one day for having spools of sure catch mono but that was different. thats when we didn;t know the virtues of braid, and gull didn;t know the virtues of buying reels from retailers other than k-mart or BIG-W!!
i can't vouch for the lighter mono mainlines, but the leader is kick arse, believe. cheap too, which is fantastic.
fluorocarbon is fabulous but only necessary in situations where visibility is an issue. eg light tackle spinning for relatively well behaved perth targets. up north, around corals, forget about it, unless you are chasing those large whiting with the bony flesh.
go sure catch,
except you gull, you are still on the road to redemption so i'm not authorising you to discontinue buying quality gear just yet.
spheros for reel of the year
Maverick
Posts: 1261
Date Joined: 06/06/06
Surecatch
Now watch all the 100Lb surecatch leader walk out the tackle stores , when I need some it will all be on Andy Macs boat .
MAV.
One more thing , if tying dropper loops ( I tie the twisted ones now) allways make sure you lube the knots up well before pulling up tight , Surecatch doesn't slip too good with out some lube ( well the 100 and over stuff anyway).
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Matt Kleczkowski
Posts: 30
Date Joined: 20/07/06
k-mart leaders go off
here ye,
i have used the ol' surecatch leader and only ever use saliva as the lubricant. i'm glad some people from the wangler forum aren't ghosting this post, because i can absolutely see it getting out of hand.
the heaviest i have used is 180lb as a leader on 120lb platypus braid for jigging.
i find i can still tie a uni knot to swivel very well. 20kg of drag against sambo;s doesnlt lie i guess.
Maverick
Posts: 1261
Date Joined: 06/06/06
SPIT
Thats what I meant , got to give it some spit to get the stuff to cinch up tight .
I'm going to get Al's Blue Heaven out this season and see what 35 kilo's of drag feels like , Al sent me a message saying plenty of new gear comming soon , looking good for this season .
I recon 35 kilo drag will test my knot tying ability .
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Fly
Posts: 485
Date Joined: 04/02/06
Possibly the best there is! "Knotted Dogs".IMHO
http://www.harro.com.au/lines.php
The knotted dog leaders I tried from Rod Harro never let me down - not once!
They ain't cheap but are probably the best I've ever used!
Cheers!
"Piscator, non solum piscator" which freely translated means something like "A fisherman, not just a catcher of fish"
http://www.flywest.com.au
Adam Gallash
Posts: 15661
Date Joined: 29/11/05
Quote:i'm glad some people
Don't worry Klench, I won't let them evict you. :)
Always rated the schneider leader line for bottom bouncing and the like. Penn 10x is too brittle for my liking and jinkai too soft. Depends what the leader is being used for I suppose.
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Matt Kleczkowski
Posts: 30
Date Joined: 20/07/06
damn you gallash, if i
damn you gallash,
if i didn't respect you so much i would kick your non-fish catching arse for such comments!
you are actually a funny guy, but thats not the point.
this is the return i get for supporting your cause eh?
maverick, i wouldn;t be too worried about your knots using 35kg of drag, i;d be more concerned with the state of your body, and whehter or not you can stay aboard the vessel from whcih you jig.
Matt Kleczkowski
Posts: 30
Date Joined: 20/07/06
dogs of love
i was so incensed at the moderator that i forgot to reply to the issue at hand.
knotted dogs kick arse.
except i make my own, and for copyright-getting sued reasons, i call them twisted leaders.
really easy to make at home. i make light ones for tailor/salmon spinning as well as fuck off phat ones for gt's and the like. they are the fruit.
twisted leaders have changed my life
Maverick
Posts: 1261
Date Joined: 06/06/06
Max Drag
Been helping Al all this winter so I'm getting use to fishing max drag on everything , just would like to see what the Blue Heaven can do.
BTW , what does every one think about pre tying their rigs etc , one of my in laws asked if it affected the strength of leaders when you tie it up and leave it for a while , does any one know if the constant pressure of a knot would affect the the strength of the leader ???
I don't pre tie any rigs anymore for my trips as I allways end up tying a rig to suit the conditions ( besides I can tie up a rig pretty quick these days ), I use to tie from 10 to 100 rigs for trips away ( week ends to 3 week treks), I know a few people that pre tie rigs and they don't really know if the pre tied rig is weaker from being tied for up to 3 months before hand .
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Matt Kleczkowski
Posts: 30
Date Joined: 20/07/06
hmmm, loss of strength of
hmmm, loss of strength of pre-tied rigs over time.
in short, i don;t think this is a problem. i think once a knot is cinched tight, strength loss would be minimal over fishing time scales. i like saying cinched, almost as much as i like saying snatch strap.
anyway, knots over time. i can see how a knot is basically a ball of pressure that ends in a final configuration of mono cinched against mono. now, once cinched, no extra pressure is applied until there is a load on the business end of the rig, ie. a fish, or in gallash's case a snag, followed by a dropped dhuie.
so the question is, does the energy applied by the cinched knot exert damage upon the nylon it is cinching?
its definitely worth scientific testing, but my immediate thoughts say that the loss of strength would be so minimal that any technique used to elucidate such loss wouldn;t be accurate enough to detect it. even if there was a loss, rigs are tied in heavier leader, and any loss of strength would be insignificant given the drag is set in relation to the mainline and not the heavier leader. there is much room for error in knots tied in the heavier leader/rig material so i would be very surprised if knot cinch life would have a significant impact on strength.
i would be more concerned about loss of strength from photo-chemical deterioration of the leader than cinch life. cinch life, thats a good name for a boat. almost as good as snatch life.
i reckon i have said cinch and its derivatives more times on this post than anyone contemplating the world of cinch. do i get a prize gallash?
no? what about if i say snatch strap?
mmm...cinched up snatch strap.
Andy Mac
Posts: 4778
Date Joined: 03/02/06
Pre-tied rigs
I pre-tie most of mine, but have a number of different rigs pre-made minus the terminal tackle in a zip lock rig bag. Haven't expereienced too much in the knot failure department. I go through quite a few rigs when I fish rugged ground so having a supply on hand makes sense to me.
On the odd occaission when something out of the ordinary comes up I will tie a fresh rig to suit the circumstances, but I try and be as prepared as possible. Whilst I can do up a standard twisted dropper loop paternoster in quick time I prefer to reach in and grab one ready to go complete with a selection of attractors (B2 lumo's etc but minus the hooks).
I also find that I constantly supply my inexperienced deckies with rigs as they continually lose fish or gear with their poorly tied rigs. (Obviously experienced fisho's are the exception).
Cheers
Andy Mac (Fishwrecked Reeltime Editor & Forum Moderator)
Youngest member of the Fishwrecked Old Farts Club
Kasey L.
Posts: 1390
Date Joined: 02/03/06
hmm.. interesting, have done
hmm..
interesting, have done some pre-rigs with stiff (Penn 10x) leader, with dropper loops. after a while I feel they might weaken, due to the 180 'bend' at the end of the dropper... managed to snap one off (100lb) that was probably pretty old.. say 4 months? it was in a dark bag, and got snapped off just by bending it back and forth a few times, like wire, if you know what i mean.
Having said that... I can't draw any conclusions from just one incident, as I have yet to loose a fish on a dropper that has just let go, so I'm in no hurry to throw away all my old droppers.
Will pre-tie some rigs until I can do them 1/2-Al-speed. Getting there Brendan ;) slowly. He was tickling me or pulling loose ends as I was trying to concentrate trying to tie knots on-board dammit, and then hiding my pre-tied rigs. Thats why I was so slow. Honest!
Arr. ;)
Kasey L.
Posts: 1390
Date Joined: 02/03/06
Big john - for flourocarbon,
Big john - for flourocarbon, try YGK, or better still, Varivas. Bad = $$, good = too expensive for me to find out yet =)
I have only recently been introduced to Surecatch, but it rocks! I'd prefer it to 10x... too stiff for my soft, supple hands =( Easy on wallet, not too bad to tie, and is pretty strong!
I also like Varivas, but not for dragging across gravel when bottom bouncing. Its clear, soft, supple and thin. Yummy for jigging.
big john
Posts: 8769
Date Joined: 20/07/06
Shallow stuff.
Cheers Kasey.
Was just toying with the idea for shallow water presentations. $$ are a factor, but I might give some a go in a side by side comparison with the momoi mono I use.
WA based manufacturer and supplier of premium leadhead jigs, fligs, bucktail jigs, 'bulletproof' soft plastic jig heads and XOS bullet jig heads.
Jigs available online in my web store!
Gully
Posts: 963
Date Joined: 04/10/05
Kletchy Kletchy Kletchy
Jeez I am glad I read this thread, feel I have to defend my name.
Kletchy boy you know how jealous you were of that lovely expensive reel of mine and all the fish it caught, you know the one! Dont know how many times I had to get it back off you as you tried to run off with its superior fish catching ability over your calcutta :)))))
Leaders are a pretty interesting one but to be honest when bottom bouncing I use mainly 80 or 100lb and as long as it is around those breaking strains I dont really care what it is. However I am not a real fan of jinkai due to all the reasons already posted
Have just got a spool of 80 and another of 110lb Shogun mono which is red and seems to go real good for bottom bouncing. Can buy it in large spools to which makes it cheaper. This red line is another I have to keep out of the hands of Kletch as he tries to accoster alll my superior gear!!! Normally use the 80lb for Perth waters and save the 110lb for the big dirty fighters of more tropical origin.
Trolling I use either surecatch or 10X due to the price really and they seem to be bloody good lines in terms of knot strength and abrasion resistance.
Matt Kleczkowski
Posts: 30
Date Joined: 20/07/06
red leader sucks
gully, you lying k-mart bandit.
its not good to mislead the public on such an informative forum.
we both know that reel cost all that touched it, quality fish. i can still hear that awful grating sound as the gear slipped and failed to disengage from free spool. lets just say i'm glad you own reels these days that deserve to be called just that, reels. my calcutta kicks arse, but it was at home on the day in question so i was forced to borrow the BW destructor.
as for coloured leader, not a fan. they claim it disappears, but i don't believe it, all lies. clear leader is the way. that red stuff is only good for hanging out washing, or selling to unsuspecting fishers.
Gully
Posts: 963
Date Joined: 04/10/05
red leader rocks
Dont forget ROYGBIV there mate = bye bye red colour and bring on the fish.
Maverick
Posts: 1261
Date Joined: 06/06/06
RED colour
Doesn't the colour just change from red to grey , I don't think it goes invisible just because it's red ??? ( JMHO )
I just can't see it dissapearing , and we don't even know if fish see colours .
Better keep that for another thread , we have allready gone from Leader types , to knot strength , to leader colours.
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Baglimitboy
Posts: 39
Date Joined: 11/02/06
Shogun
I have used various weights of Shogun clear leader and found it very tough pliable stuff with limited memory ( sounds like a girl i used to fish ?? with ....) the only problem we ever encountered was that in heavier breaking strains it was designed for crimping and consequently had limited knot strength particularly with twisted dropper loops , we found figure of 8 droppers to have far more tensile strength . This may also be the same problem mentioned for other leader material here ,if it is designed to be crimped it may not have the knot strength ormay require different knots . Any ideas anyone .
Cheers
Bags
Jody
Posts: 1578
Date Joined: 19/04/07
Always learning.....
Interesting & funny stuff in here. Another of the great things about this site. Onya boys.
I do whatever the little voices tell me to do
TWiZTED
Bill
Posts: 437
Date Joined: 24/03/07
Schnieder 110lb stiff and
There's a fine line between fishing and just standing on the shore like an idiot
SPESS
Posts: 3356
Date Joined: 29/12/06
Yeah this is a good post
Yeah this is a good post from all. Penn 10X IMO and Sunline FC for all your flourocarbon needs.
Keep it tight, reeeeeeel tight!
SPESS
Posts: 3356
Date Joined: 29/12/06
IMO i dont really think the
IMO i dont really think the "type" of line will really matter in catching a dhuie........diameter, strength.....maybe! but its more your offering, rig setup, bait, jig etc and more importantly "the ground" were you will have more luck in the hunt for your goal. Good luck.
Keep it tight, reeeeeeel tight!
dogsoldier
Posts: 943
Date Joined: 04/11/05
Cajun red and 10x and yomoto
Cajun red and 10x and yomoto all work for me the sure catch game leader is great stuff
Tackle junkie
Andrew