Department of Fisheries - Meetings Feedback!
Submitted by ROCKPOM on Thu, 2007-10-11 13:13
Hey guys can anyone put up some feedback and info on the fisheries managment meetings
as Iam working away at the moment!
Thanks Guys
Andy Mac
Posts: 4778
Date Joined: 03/02/06
Later tonight hopefully
Biggest take-away from the meeting for me was that if you want to have your say make sure you put in a submission otherwise they will just go ahead and do whatever they want. (Probably will anyway), but I think I would encourage everyone with a constructive view to write in and have their say.
Cheers
Cheers
Andy Mac (Fishwrecked Reeltime Editor & Forum Moderator)
Youngest member of the Fishwrecked Old Farts Club
ROCKPOM
Posts: 629
Date Joined: 23/04/07
Thanks Andy
Hear that Guys have your say and get that submission written up!!!
Ian Keay sent some links to me if any one wants them??
Maverick
Posts: 1261
Date Joined: 06/06/06
NO LIC
But we ALL have to register and pay to be registered,, and then they say excess money will go back into the fishery , how about charging us minimally ( or nothing) and lets see that fly.
Do they NOT listen to anything Recfishwest says , they are just going to do what they want anyway .
OFW member 088
Sponsored by no one and I work for myself so my comments are my own.
TerryF
Posts: 489
Date Joined: 11/08/05
Public meetings on the Fishing rules changes
I have put my photos of the overhead slides at the Hillarys meeting on Tuesday night on to the RFW website at http://www.recfishwest.org.au/HillarysFisheriesPublicMeetingOct2007.htm
These show the topics covered from those Fisheries Management and Research Papers.
About 130 people attended at Hillarys.
The research information was presented by fisheries researcher Dr Rod Lenanton. Management options and information was presented by Nathan Harrison.
Since then there has been another meeting at Fremantle on Wednesday and one at Mandurah on Thursday. More meetings set for Bunbury, Busselton and Geraldton.
Some of Fisheries Minister's staff were there taking lots of notes.
Some of the commercial people wanted to turn it into a political thing about the commercial changes, despite the topic being "Management of the Recreational Share of the Catch"
Questions and comments covered the whole range from irrelevant stuff, side issues, small details, to some very basic stuff already well covered in the presentation and the paper, to the usual conspiracy theory stuff that "they have already made up their minds and it is just a waste of time and effort to comment"... to some quite searching questions....
Lots of stuff covered. I haven't time just now to write a full report, so ask me anything specific and I'll try to answer...
Interestingly, no one said the fish weren't in trouble and all this was a beat up. No one said there wasn't any need to do something drastic to cut the amount of fish caught (including by recreational fishermen) to save the fish.
It's easy to get stuck on the some of the small details.
The important points - not enough fish - too many being caught/dying - any suggested "solutions" MUST change that - or they are just not acceptable.
Remember, these sessions and the links were giving you the information so that you can give them your comments, and suggestions for solutions - maybe including things not covered in the papers.
It's not helpful or useful or even correct to say things like "Do they NOT listen to anything Recfishwest says, they are just going to do what they want anyway..."
This is a complex topic and the answers are not and will not be easy.
No one should expect that recreational fishermen will come up with ONE answer/combination which they'll all agree on.
Recfishwest is writing a response to these papers. We expect to have a version available to the public on the RFW website before the end of October, giving at least two weeks for people to read and use whatever they want to/agree with/ disagree with/ argue with well before the deadline for submissions of 16 November.
I'll publish the link as soon as it's ready.
Again, this is one of those times when my footer says a lot.....
TerryF
=====
Beavering away in the background......
Recfishwest - looking after YOUR recreational fishing future. http://www.recfishwest.org.au/
You need Recfishwest to look after your recreational fishing interests. Who else has the time, the knowledge, the professional approach, the realistic alternatives, the willingness and the contacts?
Recfishwest needs YOUR support. We would really like you to become a member, get involved and help us.
For $20, you can join by post, by phone 9246 3366, by email recfish@recfishwest.org.au , in person, or fill in a website form. See http://www.recfishwest.org.au/MembershipDet.htm
Tell us what you think and ask us to explain anything you don't agree with - you may give new details which will change Recfishwest's decision.
You are the ones who benefit when Recfishwest succeeds, or you will lose out when Recfishwest is ignored.
Andy Mac
Posts: 4778
Date Joined: 03/02/06
Thanks Terry
I would like to perhaps give my own personal view of proceedings (not necessarily the view of fishwrecked) and that is as follows:
Lots of questions asked around how they came up with the numbers of fish, fishermen and tonnes caught given the fact that everyone in the room agreed that they had hardly ever seen a fisheries officer in the last 5 years. (Apparently one chap was checked 40 times during the last creel survey....maybe he was the guy bagging out every day that skewed the numbers
My own personal observation was that in the entire presentation there was no mention of enforcement and how that plays an important part in managing the compliance of new increased regulations. When I asked Mr Harrison about it gave a political answer that the department needed more resourses and when asked how many officers were actually on the ground he resorted to a figure of 15FTE (or Full Time Equivalent staff) which could be a lot more than 15 bodies. Unfortunately I think they are short on numbers with vacant positions in that number and hopefully this will be addressed as part of the changes going forward.
I was going to suggest that in a time when a past fisheries minister can get caught rorting the marron bag limits (or whatever it was that guy did), it should be a wake-up call to get tougher on cheats as there are bound to be plenty of them still out there (but I chickened out). Why should us law abiding fisho's have to tollerate the cheats who will likely ignore the new regulations if there are no fisheries officers policing the ramps? More officers are needed and bigger fines / punishments IMO. Hopefully they will comment on it at the next meeting and perhaps get a sense of how the general fishing community thinks in relation to enforcement. I was very dissapointed it didn't crack a mention at all.
The Abrohlos got a big mention with quite a few comments around why the minister blanket banned a single species (Baldies)when it appeared to go against what the department were advising in terms of multispecies approaches to regulations being needed. I'd love to be a fly on the wall at the Geraldton meeting
Apart from that ,the rest was quite predictable. Wally tried hard to get Dr Lenanton to say that Dhuies don't chase crays, but all he could manage was a "they don;t migrate" and "they may move offshore and inshore in the same local area" I am sure you were dying to get him to say "they don't move period" Wal but he just couldn't bring himself to say it
Lots of talk about barotrauma and for everyone in the room the release weight has been given a commonwealth grant and I think (correct me if I am wrong Terry) but recfishwest are producing a DVD on fish handling to be given away at tackle stores. Great news and well done Wally, Gary Lilley and others that were involved.
Frank was very elloquent and made some good points, but was very balanced in his views too which was good to see.
That's about all I can remember and since I am an old fart and had a few beers with the boys after the event so my memory might have gotten a few of those things a little wrong perhaps, but it is my genuine recollection of major discussion topics.
As I said earlier the biggest message I can send is to PUT PEN TO PAPER AND WRITE A SUBMISSION if you want to influence what is probably going to be the single biggest change in your favourite passtime for decades to come. Apathy will be rewarded with something you might not like.
Cheers
Cheers
Andy Mac (Fishwrecked Reeltime Editor & Forum Moderator)
Youngest member of the Fishwrecked Old Farts Club
Jamie Chester
Posts: 66
Date Joined: 12/11/06
Comments on meetings
Just thought I'd post a few thoughts on the meetings - I didn't bother speaking out at the time which is unusual for me.
Firstly WAFIC seemed intent on pointing out how unjust their ban is and how it was nothing to do with sustainability - and its true I guess - but I see it as a very necessary and just resource reallocation - after all managements job is about getting the greatest community benefit out of fish stocks and a reallocation to the rec sector is doing just that. And there is compo being offered to the pros.
Secondly we obviously now have a minister intent on making changes and decisions rather than procrastinating -and paper shuffling - which is good but it can cut both ways. There will be changes that may upset some recs on the cards.
Also there were some valid points re baldies coming up dead in pro pots that have to be returned and legitimate concerns re the banning of taking baldies at the abrolhos - chances are they will die when taken from deep water anyway - how do you get around that - I have some ideas myself - maybe a ban on fishing baits in water less than 30 metres would afford some protection to baldies(and others) while not unnecessarily killing fish from deep water - I'm talking abrolhos only here - hard to police in reality but would offer a good guide to what management wants to achieve. Maybe any demersals in water less than 30 metres would then be safe - but I am not sure what depth the baldie aggs are so I could be way out on this.
Also legitimate concerns about creel survey results - never been surveyed myself - and its not like I dont fish.
Personally would like to see an acknowledgement of the financial power of the rec sector too - hate the user pays philosophy so prevalent in gov depts.
And YES EXTRA POLICING ESSENTIAL - but I would hate that to be a justification for increased fees/licenses!! Might end up that way though - noted how they used registration system rather than the word license - LOL!!!
Anyway just some thoughts.
www.accessantennas.com.au
Andy Mac
Posts: 4778
Date Joined: 03/02/06
Conspiracy Theories
Just a quick comment on the "conspiracy theory" that the Govt has made up its mind already.... I think not, as they are essentially a political entity and as such will be swayed by a populous opinion. Doing something that is clearly against the wishes of the majority is often frought with politcal danger. So back to my earlier comment on apathy... make the effort....be heard and perhaps some of your ideas and comments may make it through to the final draft.
Consultative Management isn;t just a theory made up to keep MBA students awake all night (I should know). It actually works well in practice, especially in areas where fresh ideas need to be explored.
Put in your submission it will be worth it!
Cheers
Cheers
Andy Mac (Fishwrecked Reeltime Editor & Forum Moderator)
Youngest member of the Fishwrecked Old Farts Club
Maverick
Posts: 1261
Date Joined: 06/06/06
Proven wrong ??
I would love to be proven wrong ,
but we are in for a Lic / Registration system.
AND a TAG system .
JMHO, I can have an opinion ,,,, can't I .
My take on it was;
this is what we think is happening and this is what we are going to do ;
what do you think ;
and make sure you ask only ONE question and don't expect an answer.
OFW member 088
Sponsored by no one and I work for myself so my comments are my own.
TerryF
Posts: 489
Date Joined: 11/08/05
Public meetings on the Fishing rules changes
Andy
Rod Lenanton did say the the 2005/6 creel survey used the same methodology as the previous one.
The link to that creel survey, the methodology, etc is "A 12-month survey of coastal recreational boat fishing between Augusta and Kalbarri on the west coast of Western Australia during 1996-97" http://www.fish.wa.gov.au/docs/frr/frr117/index.php?0401
Sheesh, it seems some don't people understand what "sampling" means. Not everyone gets checked.
The catch survey has been done. The catch estimates have been made. People can spend time arguing whether the conclusion should be xxx tonnes caught or yyy tonnes caught.
Warts and all, these are the best available information, and there's not going to be any more info collected in time to decide what the management rules should be.
Biological research (see the papers and the slides) show that the fish stocks are overfished.
More ongoing research and close monitoring is essential (yes compliance too) to see which way stocks are going.
Would you rather be told: "fish stocks are increasing and going in the right direction" or "fish stocks are still going down - the catch will have to be cut a lot more" ???
===
The comments on the Abrolhos ignored the fact that there is already a three month baldchin closure of the Abrolhos FHPA from 1 November to 31 January, AND that the extension (as announced by the Minister) is just an interim step which may or may not be part of the long term management which is all to be decided using the comments provided.
====
Yes, RFW are producing a DVD on fish handling and release weight/releasing to be given away at tackle stores. I will post more details, timing, etc when I have something firm.
Correct handling/release is essential but only part of the issue.
If a significant percentage of fish will inevitably die from barotrauma injuries when caught from below a certain depth, then that fact could have a big influence on the management proposals.
The real issues here are the facts about "what depth/what percentage?" Different depths and percentages have been used and thrown around - some badly misinformed.
Watch out for more on that....
TerryF
=====
Beavering away in the background......
Recfishwest - looking after YOUR recreational fishing future. http://www.recfishwest.org.au/
You need Recfishwest to look after your recreational fishing interests. Who else has the time, the knowledge, the professional approach, the realistic alternatives, the willingness and the contacts?
Recfishwest needs YOUR support. We would really like you to become a member, get involved and help us.
For $20, you can join by post, by phone 9246 3366, by email recfish@recfishwest.org.au , in person, or fill in a website form. See http://www.recfishwest.org.au/MembershipDet.htm
Tell us what you think and ask us to explain anything you don't agree with - you may give new details which will change Recfishwest's decision.
You are the ones who benefit when Recfishwest succeeds, or you will lose out when Recfishwest is ignored.
Maverick
Posts: 1261
Date Joined: 06/06/06
HA HA
Well I'm out of here , got a red hot bite happening at the cod dam and I'm not going to miss that for nothin' ,there should be good reading when I get back on Monday .
I'm glad I don't need a lic for that ,
YET ?
I'll post pics if I nail that big 1m long bugger that keeps teasing me !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
OFW member 088
Sponsored by no one and I work for myself so my comments are my own.
Andy Mac
Posts: 4778
Date Joined: 03/02/06
Website addicts
Those that are passionate about this passtime generally read fishing mags, watch fishing shows and frequent fishing forums and sites, but they don't always post comments, it is those people who should put that passion into having their say about how to manage our fishery so we can enjoy it for many many years to come. But it shouldn't stop joe blow either, who fishes once or twice a year from having his two cents worth, you never know he might be on to something.
PS: Thanks for the windup, I am supposed to be working and you have distracted me long enough!
Good Night all! Can we stop now, I want to finish my work? Ciao!
Cheers
Cheers
Andy Mac (Fishwrecked Reeltime Editor & Forum Moderator)
Youngest member of the Fishwrecked Old Farts Club
Feral
Posts: 1508
Date Joined: 01/11/06
just thought i would answer
just thought i would answer a question for jamie ... baldies usually spawn between 10m - 30m ..... even at 10m their stomach is expelled out there mouth and the survival rate for that sort of trama would probably be low....
as for liceances i think they are a good thing if the money is used for policing our waters . whats $20 compared to the thousands some of us spend on boats and gear ? i can only see it hurting the once in a blue moon fisher , and for them i feel sorry as they may not take a child for that "first" fishing trip because of it.
SPESS
Posts: 3356
Date Joined: 29/12/06
Every thing that Andy mac
Every thing that Andy mac has said is spot on and im glad and thankful he and TerryF have taken the time the write these comments up........Thanks for all who attended and on a possitive note it was good to meet a couple of fishwrecked members after a long time coming. All up i think i noticed 9 Fishwrecked boys and girls.
The only thing which has been mensioned already is I love how they propose to change these regs but havent got nearlly enough people to police it! Guess whatever happens in the future they are still leaving it up to "honest" people! Im just glad im one of them....
Keep it tight, reeeeeeel tight!
TerryF
Posts: 489
Date Joined: 11/08/05
Submissions on Fishing rules management changes
That should be a big point in any submission anyone/everyone makes - we, the recreational fishing community, want enough policing of the small percentage of people who are STEALING FISH from the rest of us and STEALING FROM OUR KIDS' AND GRANDKIDS' FISHING FUTURE!!!.
I've posted this link lots of times, but will keep posting it when I see suggestions like this one.....
Check out "Conditions for agreeing to a Saltwater Recreational Fishing Licence at http://www.westernangler.com.au/forum/fb.asp?m=134287 It answers all those questions....
And for/to anyone/everyone who cops out and says "putting in submissions is just not listened to - they have already made up their mind - it's all a waste of time"
Read http://www.aaawa.iinet.net.au/RecreationalFishingRuleChangesDec2003.html which covers how I personally got some real and fundamental changes made to some of the stupid recreational fishing rules which were introduced on 1 October 2003.
Yes it's a saga, but it shows that even ONE persistent individual can get significant changes made against some stiff opposition.
Yes I had the "weight" of the Australian Anglers Association (and Recfishwest) behind me, but it was ALL my work.
BTW I am now putting my volunteer efforts into working with Recfishwest where I can achieve much more....
TerryF
=====
Beavering away in the background......
Recfishwest - looking after YOUR recreational fishing future. http://www.recfishwest.org.au/
You need Recfishwest to look after your recreational fishing interests. Who else has the time, the knowledge, the professional approach, the realistic alternatives, the willingness and the contacts?
Recfishwest needs YOUR support. We would really like you to become a member, get involved and help us.
For $20, you can join by post, by phone 9246 3366, by email recfish@recfishwest.org.au , in person, or fill in a website form. See http://www.recfishwest.org.au/MembershipDet.htm
Tell us what you think and ask us to explain anything you don't agree with - you may give new details which will change Recfishwest's decision.
You are the ones who benefit when Recfishwest succeeds, or you will lose out when Recfishwest is ignored.
SPESS
Posts: 3356
Date Joined: 29/12/06
Thanks terry i think its one
Thanks terry i think its one of the major conserns for us fishos and IMO proberly the only piont we can put across as they will make there decision on the rest anyway with or without our comments! But i hope not.......i will be deffently submitting my thoughts. Cheers Chris.
Keep it tight, reeeeeeel tight!
ROCKPOM
Posts: 629
Date Joined: 23/04/07
Thanks Guys for the
Thanks Guys for the feedback,sorry i didn't respond as night shift knock it out of me!
Policing will be a huge problem as stated in other posts due to the lack of officers.
Licence money would maybe make it look more attractive??
but if a licence is a coming a no payment for kids i would strongly recommend.
I know that rec log books are available but if people disagree with the research
info at the meetings this could be easily sorted in the future by simply filling it out
and then drop it in the post(research guys would gladly pick up?).Surely this would
help bring a more accurate survey!
Most people have a record of what we've caught and when and its simple, their
posted on here all the time (Photos) They carry a Date and give a clear veiw of
what species,how many and a rough size all thats needed is a rough area!!
This site has alot of them and if bought all together that adds up to a hell of a lot of fish!!
(and thats just the good pics)
Just a suggestion But could it be done thats up you!!!!
Thanks again guys for your feedback