DPIRD science shows slow recovery of demersal scalefish stocks
The latest scientific stock assessment of pink snapper and dhufish stocks from Kalbarri to Augusta has found the West Coast Demersal Scalefish Resource is not recovering fast enough to safeguard the sustainability of these prized fish.
Department of Primary Industries and Regional Development (DPRID) principal fisheries management officer Clinton Syers said the latest stock assessment showed the recovery rate of scalefish stocks was slower than anticipated in the 20-year recovery plan.
DPIRD fisheries scientists have completed three major stock assessments focussing on pink snapper and dhufish since 2010 to monitor stock recovery.
This followed a period of overfishing that resulted in recreational and commercial catches being reduced by 50 per cent in 2010 as part of a 20-year recovery plan.
Current management arrangements have successfully halted the decline in dhufish and pink snapper stock but there has been limited recovery of these species.
Mr Syers said the sustainable management of the West Coast Demersal Scalefish Resource was based on world class fisheries science and research.
Pink snapper is a prized catch for commercial and recreational fishers
“Pink snapper and dhufish are used to indicate the health of the entire scalefish resource, which is comprised of more than 100 species of fish,” he said.
“We are now more than half-way through the recovery plan period and have been carrying out science assessments to measure the rate of recovery of the resource under the current management measures.
“The demersal scalefish resource is not recovering as quickly as necessary to ensure the long-term sustainability of these important fish species.
“Pink snapper and dhufish can live up to 40 years and our latest stock assessment shows a continued lack of older fish in the population required for the resource to recover.
“This is due to only having a few successful breeding years since 2010 to replenish populations combined with increased fishing pressure resulting in less of these fish surviving long enough to add to the breeding stock and support stock recovery.”
Mr Syers said WA’s commercial and recreational fishers highly valued the resource and are abiding by the current rules and also donating fish frames for aging purposes as part of the science assessment.
“The stock assessment makes it clear that changes to management arrangements are required to get the recovery of demersal scalefish to sustainable levels back on track,” Mr Syers said.
“It is vitally important we continue to work together to enable the demersal scalefish stock to replenish to sustainable levels or risk further depletion of the fishery in the future.”
In July this year, DPIRD released the West Coast Demersal Scalefish Resource Harvest Strategy, developed by representatives from the Department, Recfishwest, Marine Tourism WA, WA Fishing Industry Council and commercial and recreational fishers.
The strategy outlines the agreed objectives, milestones, timeframes and control rules to ensure the recovery of the West Coast Demersal Scalefish Resource.
A Reference Group comprising government and peak industry body representatives will meet and review the latest stock assessment against the recovery targets within the Harvest Strategy and provide advice on appropriate management responses for further consultation.
Heading down the same path that those of us that also hunt on the land have to endure. You will need to know someone that owns a private piece of ocean to fish on it.
Not at all intended as sounding impolite, but just a question for clarity, can you please elaborate who "we" are?
As it sounds as though you are (or represent) a lobby group or regulatory body, and it would be good to know who you represent or are speaking on behalf of.
Even better maybe, update your profile to reflect this.
Fishwrecked is a great reference resource that can be utilised both for and (unfortunately) against rec fishers interests just as effectively
No Impoliteness taken thats a Totally fair comment.
And I agree
A little about "me" and a litte about "we"
So
My name is Daniel,
I am the Director and Founder of Emission Apparel.
Just like alot of you probably are I am a 38 yr old Dad with a Fiance/Wife and 2 daughters 3 and 5. (kid A was a suprise and we had to can our wedding )
I am a Mad keen Fisho...If i am not working or with my family im out fishing enjoying time on the water.
"We"
This will be brief as i could write a book on this...... But I encorage anyone who is interested and would like to chat more in depth to contact me via DM and ill give you my contact details.
Emission was founded as a clothing company for fisherman the idea came about 2.5 years ago weve been workin on it for 2 years and we became a PTY LTD. Dec 31 2020
currently by myself family and friends.
We put out super high quality Apparel hand screen printed in W.A that is comfortable to wear anywhere...... Fishing, The Pub, down the park ect ect.
satisfaction gaurenteed!
Comfort and quality is a huge thing for us, We have a few " Loud " Ts and singlets, but also some more subtle Ts aswell. feel free to check it out at www.emissionapparel.com.au/shop
We have also got a $2,500 "Best photo comp" For any purchases made out of any apparel purchase online.
But as Fisherman we wanted to do more than just sell apparel.
We want to be "proactive" and contribute back into recreational fishing and basically give back from where we take.
We currently have been alocating a "portion" of money on items between $2-$5 varied on item to be directly put into a fund...We have raised a sum of $2000 which enables us to now start our
"Emission Fishing Fund" with Australian Communities Foundation.
This money will be invested like a super fund and will made to grow so we can then reinvest it directly back into recreational fishing.
(getting the best bang for buck and regenerating the invested amounts to use over and over)
currently we have been doing a bit behind the scenes so far but....
Our big ticket goal is to get The Dhufish a restocking programe like they have with other species.
Other interests on our agenda is we want to give back to Comunity, Edcucation about our fishery , Development of improved fishing techniques, Beter Science techniques, more safety for remote locations and most importanlty
The protection of recreational fishing.
We want the rec fishing comunity as a whole be seen as the custodians that want to protect our fishery for generations.
to stop any negative groups trying to take these things away from us... we have done and will be doing for generations to come.
I hope this answers any questions
And as i said Anyone can feel free to contact me and ill be happy to have a chat to anyone about anything.
We totally get your concerns about depositing skeletons.
Basically We're dammed if we don't and dammed if we don't
no fish getting collected and no information being received could mean to them thes a problem with stocks and they will shut us out
We feel that having corrected information and scientific research will give us and the government at the time more informed information about stocks ...it is an important part of helping demersal fish
we can also make it work in our favour if science proves what is happening is correct
they've already acknowledged the decline has stopped and biomas is recovering albeit slowly.
maybe if more skeletons were donated and they collected good information they may see it as being healthier than the report says now...
We think the way they gather some of the information for these studies is floored. and more needs to be done in regards to studies in our opinion so more informed decisions can be made
but this is all we have at this time and we need to make it work for us
it's a public resource we have a voice on what happens to it. we just need to make ourselves heard
through letters to members Parliament or through recfishwest
last season we saw and caught more Dhuie's than we have ever seen. (touch wood it continues). We have seen and caught more Snapper last season than I've ever caught, but I will admit they were mostly undersized but we never used to see them, and this is Snapper central down here. I just don't see their logical reason what they are suggesting as I personally think the stocks have increased.
All depends on who does surveys and hands in there frames. You may get a few who catch nothing . May get few who do well . Then they average it out . No science involved at all ( only my opinion), I admit I was a sucker in early days ( handing in tags , frames ect ) I must admit over the years never caught a tagged dhue.
I think this is were there getting there surveys from. There watching all social media sites and that's were there getting the numbers from.
The only reason they pulled the cockbourn sound Snapper ban forward 2 weeks is they monitored social media sites and realised they were 2 weeks short and people were catching Snapper. Right or wrong I'm not bothered but, was it based on science. Mmm
Bring it month prior to what it is . I have noticed over the last few years on big moons huge schools on surface doing there deed outside the sound . Is it the water quality stopping big schools entering sound ? Not overfishing , Heaps of sea grass gone .natural mussel beds gone. It’s also great seeing young kids get a trophy fish in safe conditions.( sheltered water) that would be a shame.Whatever happens won’t be end of world. I still think surveys guess work . Ones who do surveys ( frames daily catch ect) . Then do average of all other fisherman. Could be wrong unsure. Figures don’t add up.i honestly don’t think frame bins will help amateurs at all . Return back to ocean ( cray bait) or crab food. Be interesting outcome . I know what my moneys on .
Conversation on Greay Whites has certainly worked out very well not only around Australian beaches but world spread,but coupld with the elimination of wet line/net fisheries that saw quite a few employment prospects go ,the deininying of local Austrialiaan people fresh fish (Flake) at a very reasonable price we now see a dramatic encrease in ohter shark 's I can honeslty say that I have never know or seen so many Bronzies ,Tigers & the odd GW as I have in the past 5/6 years.But on the good side ? I have also seen a dramatic decrease in divers & snorkelers
To be honest. IF the science says that an extended ban would be highly beneficial to demersal stock I wouldn't be putrid knowing it's the time of year I can chase crabs, flatties, YFW etc and take the family to GI/Rotto etc.
My son was randomly surveyed and the latest plan is to have an annual limit on demersals.A tag system where you record your catch on a card and you have a limit of species.How that will be policed is beyond me.The system we have is great and working
There is no transparency in fisheries/recfishwest decisions, just generic crap given as the reason. Public surveys don't justify judging fish stocks imo and using social media in the same way is lazy research. We are damned if we do and damned if we don't. If alot of fish pics are posted then we are catching too many, if only a few are posted there must be low numbers out there. Give us some real scientific data! Even the paper released doesn't give any real data.
I read the 2021 Stock Assessment and also found it lacking in any sort of data that explained 'where we were vs where we are'. This is the data people want to see. The following is a cut and paste from the stock assessment.
"2.1 Catch and effort data
Compulsorily reported catch and effort data from each commercial fishery that retained demersal scalefish including West Australian dhufish and Snapper in the WCB since 1975 were obtained from DPIRD databases. These fisheries include the West Coast Demersal Scalefish (Interim) Managed Fishery, the Temperate demersal gillnet and long-line fisheries (i.e. West Coast Demersal Gillnet and Demersal Longline Managed Fishery and Southern Demersal Gillnet and Demersal Longline Managed Fishery, West Coast Rock Lobster Managed Fishery, South-west Trawl Managed Fishery and the Cockburn Sound Line and Pot Managed Fishery. Charter catch and effort data were obtained from compulsory logbooks introduced in 2001/02. Catch and effort data of private boat-based recreational fishers were derived from periodic surveys at boat ramps (creel surveys) prior to 2011/12 (Lai et al., 2019) and from integrated phone-diary surveys from 2011/12 onwards (see Ryan et al. 2019)."
This is hardly what I would call comprehensive data. Boat ramp surveys prior to 2011/12 and phone-diary surveys from 2011/12 onwards. Where is the science?
I see lots of theoretical data being applied to purported trends where the information / data has been collected from ramp surveys and phone polls. Hardly convincing. I'm not saying the stock assessment is incorrect. I'm wary of the accuracy of the findings when theoretical data, based on previous assumptions is inputted into a model. I'm sure you are familiar with the expression shit in, shit out.
How can you save stock . Tag method won’t work . You won’t keep 6 to 7 kilo dhue.( if we had so many tags per person a year) you will let it go . Possible bad outcome for dhue. Size over the years has dropped agree but there is never a issue getting your 2,dhues . Ban won’t work for dhues and pinks only. Kg gear lands them easy. Pinks on surface in sound yesterday 3 big seperate schools . In a 2 k area. Fins out of surface ( swirling) if no one posted fish agree ( there is none) post pics getting to many . Interesting times ahead . I don’t think it will happen this season . Next year I would say. If there is scientific tally’s that support the decline all good . If it’s a hand full of people doing there frames/ catch rate ect. Then it’s guess work .
for my two cents worth, I have caught many dhu fish, late january & Febuary, that are still spawning, but the pollies wont close the season till end of Febuary, because they are to conserned about loosing vote, so for a full spawning, we have to exstend the demersible ban till the end of Febuary, and that also include the profectonal fisher s as well, or at least half there catch through that time, cheers Don.
Ive caught snapper multiple times that are spawning way out of the main spawning season and if dhuies and snapper are treated by fisheries as one and the same, you could expect the same from dhuies for research purposes.
From what i understand recs and pros will suffer the same.
I would love to know why current up to date research is not made public.
Put under recreation catch quota. I thought they where pros ? Reading article from abc . Pros want us recreational to fix issues with stocks .( we drop ours) they stay same . I would love to see charters catch ( has to be recorded) also pros which also has to be recorded ( type of fish ect). Then put amatures details up . There surveys (on people who do them ). True facts not fictional
Was actually some good info was provided and certainly the people I spoke to came away with a better understanding of what was going on.
A few points for fisheries to consider were raised on the night which RFW will take on as well. Key will be to get some good engagemnt from the community when it goes to consultation.
Rec fish would keep everyone informed from start . Rather than secret service .and only few find out . Doesn’t matter really . They all have same agenda .
The Government & its QUANGOS use the euphemism that they "consult widely " then go ahead & do what they had already decided anyway. It's just to give the impression of consultation. The Minister is able to look directly at the camera and say "We consulted widely ". It's all smoke and mirrors. I've seen it happen repeatedly when I was working.
Yep saw that first hand when a big company decided they wanted to build a huge transfer/rubbish station next to our factory units. City of Canning had an open "consultation meeting" but a fellow unit owner who attended said it was a waste of time, the decision had already been made.
We all have a choice. Actually make the effort to learn what is being proposed so you can make an informed decision around what to do about it or to sit back and do nothing.
Seems a lot of people think complaining on social media these days is enough effort for them and then blame everyone else when it doesnt go their way.
however people want to be informed of the science behind any proposed restrictions. We are continually reminded that all decisions are based on the best science available and yet I see none. See my post further up. If I've missed something please direct me to the page(s) of the report that refer to the science which supports the decresing / increasing stock numbers. Ramp surveys are not science.
From what I’ve heard ( could be wrong) . Doesn’t matter about who says what , where and when . ( social media ect) decisions have been made.and it’s final .
You seem to know whats going to happen more than me johnny. Didnt you say a long ban is a done deal?
I just want people to get up to speed with whats going on rather than sit back and get stuck with whatever comes our way which is why I arranged a talk at CPBC. Mangles is looking to do the same as well as other clubs and for the same reason.
The greenies and animal rights groups get organized with this stuff. Us not so much.
Only way to offer any options will be by understanding what they are looking for and offering alternative options. Politics will come into the result as much as anything else.
All is set in concrete . Doesn’t matter who you are . What you do . Whinge/ cry / post on social media. Means nothing you are right . If there scientist think stocks are in danger it’s a done deal . Ask twiggy Forrest about snapper stocks in sound . Every mussel line smashed. Pinks have come back in huge numbers .even out deep can’t get away from them . Dhues different story. Any dhue you have to let go on release led is f$&@ed. But you have to carry one . Is that so they are not seen floating dead on surface ? I’ve been around long time in fishing . More and more trial bans come in ( then they are set in concrete) this will be. No different .i do not know answer to dhue situation at all . But I never struggle with them ( not being smart ass) is it education on how to harvest one area . Then following week go completely different direction from where you know where fish are. Who knows? Not you not me . I have always been against realease leds for dhues . Recfish got smart deal done for deep droppers years ago . They allowed 1 banded cod over a meter long ( good for deep droppers) and for fish stocks .try realease 25 kilo plus cod in 200 plus meters . Yep won’t happen . Just sinking dead fish.( out of site out of mind) cray bait
Swompa
Posts: 3786
Date Joined: 14/10/12
Saw something on ABC. Pros
Saw something on ABC. Pros wanting to cut back rec catches? Not going to make friends that way.
little johnny
Posts: 5330
Date Joined: 04/12/11
There also including
Charter boat catches. Adding them on rec fishing quota . Big changes on the way.
sea-kem
Posts: 14857
Date Joined: 30/11/09
Has any of this really
Has any of this really surprised us. Slowly losing it, lock out areas and reduced bag limits again FFS
Love the West!
Reefsta
Posts: 281
Date Joined: 03/08/19
There can be only one?
Maybe an extended demeral ban period or a demersal limit of one?
little johnny
Posts: 5330
Date Joined: 04/12/11
Be an extension
Not limit drop. My guess
backlash
Posts: 335
Date Joined: 12/10/10
Link for interest
www.fish.wa.gov.au/About-Us/News/Pages/west-coast-demersal-scalefish-resource-stock-assessment.aspx
http://www.fish.wa.gov.au/Documents/research_reports/frr316.pdf
DPIRD science shows slow recovery of demersal scalefish stocksPink snapper is a prized catch for commercial and recreational fishers
Gav475
Posts: 393
Date Joined: 16/11/11
private
Heading down the same path that those of us that also hunt on the land have to endure. You will need to know someone that owns a private piece of ocean to fish on it.
Emission appare...
Posts: 30
Date Joined: 21/01/21
We were talking with
We were talking with recfishwest today
We are working with them on a trial of filleting stations down at Hillary's.
this topic came up and they asked whilst doing our trials if we could gather some public opinion and information about this and
ways we can mitigate this without lockouts ect ect.
By the Breif convo the feeling I got is they want to keep things similar and have no drastic changes
as it is recovering
so please make your opinions known to recfishwest so they can be a voice for you.
it is also true that
recreational; commercial, charters and other forms of fishing will be under one banner as a whole
this makes sense in a management point of view as it's a whole
however if times are changing....and it's going down the pro vs rec route
it would be considered a public resource for the average person to enjoy rather than for business profiting from it.
thats what needs to be protected
Rob H
Posts: 5745
Date Joined: 18/01/12
Not at all intended as
Not at all intended as sounding impolite, but just a question for clarity, can you please elaborate who "we" are?
As it sounds as though you are (or represent) a lobby group or regulatory body, and it would be good to know who you represent or are speaking on behalf of.
Even better maybe, update your profile to reflect this.
Fishwrecked is a great reference resource that can be utilised both for and (unfortunately) against rec fishers interests just as effectively
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
Emission appare...
Posts: 30
Date Joined: 21/01/21
Hey Rob,No Impoliteness
Hey Rob,
No Impoliteness taken thats a Totally fair comment.
And I agree
A little about "me" and a litte about "we"
So
My name is Daniel,
I am the Director and Founder of Emission Apparel.
Just like alot of you probably are I am a 38 yr old Dad with a Fiance/Wife and 2 daughters 3 and 5. (kid A was a suprise and we had to can our wedding )
I am a Mad keen Fisho...If i am not working or with my family im out fishing enjoying time on the water.
"We"
This will be brief as i could write a book on this...... But I encorage anyone who is interested and would like to chat more in depth to contact me via DM and ill give you my contact details.
Emission was founded as a clothing company for fisherman the idea came about 2.5 years ago weve been workin on it for 2 years and we became a PTY LTD. Dec 31 2020
currently by myself family and friends.
We put out super high quality Apparel hand screen printed in W.A that is comfortable to wear anywhere...... Fishing, The Pub, down the park ect ect.
satisfaction gaurenteed!
Comfort and quality is a huge thing for us, We have a few " Loud " Ts and singlets, but also some more subtle Ts aswell. feel free to check it out at www.emissionapparel.com.au/shop
We have also got a $2,500 "Best photo comp" For any purchases made out of any apparel purchase online.
But as Fisherman we wanted to do more than just sell apparel.
We want to be "proactive" and contribute back into recreational fishing and basically give back from where we take.
We currently have been alocating a "portion" of money on items between $2-$5 varied on item to be directly put into a fund...We have raised a sum of $2000 which enables us to now start our
"Emission Fishing Fund" with Australian Communities Foundation.
This money will be invested like a super fund and will made to grow so we can then reinvest it directly back into recreational fishing.
(getting the best bang for buck and regenerating the invested amounts to use over and over)
currently we have been doing a bit behind the scenes so far but....
Our big ticket goal is to get The Dhufish a restocking programe like they have with other species.
Other interests on our agenda is we want to give back to Comunity, Edcucation about our fishery , Development of improved fishing techniques, Beter Science techniques, more safety for remote locations and most importanlty
The protection of recreational fishing.
We want the rec fishing comunity as a whole be seen as the custodians that want to protect our fishery for generations.
to stop any negative groups trying to take these things away from us... we have done and will be doing for generations to come.
I hope this answers any questions
And as i said Anyone can feel free to contact me and ill be happy to have a chat to anyone about anything.
Regards,
Daniel.
diver
Posts: 146
Date Joined: 25/09/08
Hi Daniel.
I enjoyed reading the above article I just wish there ere more people who want to actually help improve rather than just take & destroy.
little johnny
Posts: 5330
Date Joined: 04/12/11
How will trial
Filleting stations help fish ? What is the benefit ? I would think it would get used against you .
Emission appare...
Posts: 30
Date Joined: 21/01/21
Hey little JohnnyWe totally
Hey little Johnny
We totally get your concerns about depositing skeletons.
Basically We're dammed if we don't and dammed if we don't
no fish getting collected and no information being received could mean to them thes a problem with stocks and they will shut us out
We feel that having corrected information and scientific research will give us and the government at the time more informed information about stocks ...it is an important part of helping demersal fish
we can also make it work in our favour if science proves what is happening is correct
they've already acknowledged the decline has stopped and biomas is recovering albeit slowly.
maybe if more skeletons were donated and they collected good information they may see it as being healthier than the report says now...
We think the way they gather some of the information for these studies is floored.
and more needs to be done in regards to studies in our opinion so more informed decisions can be made
but this is all we have at this time and we need to make it work for us
it's a public resource we have a voice on what happens to it. we just need to make ourselves heard
through letters to members Parliament or through recfishwest
little johnny
Posts: 5330
Date Joined: 04/12/11
What have they asked for
?
Emission appare...
Posts: 30
Date Joined: 21/01/21
I just sent a dm with my
I just sent a dm with my contact details.
Feel free to call and we can have a in-depth chat if you like
little johnny
Posts: 5330
Date Joined: 04/12/11
Make occy and squid
Shirts :)
Emission appare...
Posts: 30
Date Joined: 21/01/21
Hey LJ thanks for the
Hey LJ
thanks for the chat!
Love the feed back mate
You might be onto something with those T's
Shark1
Posts: 1084
Date Joined: 21/05/12
the amount of small pinkies
the amount of small pinkies has certainly increased tenfold- frquent observatons by members on here, no mention of it in study
looking at what happened in Shark bay with new demerasl limits , without any real data makes me wonder about their survey methods and intent
little johnny
Posts: 5330
Date Joined: 04/12/11
Price of fuel atm
Will save fish .far out incredible
Alpha
Posts: 193
Date Joined: 13/02/17
My thoughts are it's ridiculous
last season we saw and caught more Dhuie's than we have ever seen. (touch wood it continues). We have seen and caught more Snapper last season than I've ever caught, but I will admit they were mostly undersized but we never used to see them, and this is Snapper central down here. I just don't see their logical reason what they are suggesting as I personally think the stocks have increased.
little johnny
Posts: 5330
Date Joined: 04/12/11
Agree
All depends on who does surveys and hands in there frames. You may get a few who catch nothing . May get few who do well . Then they average it out . No science involved at all ( only my opinion), I admit I was a sucker in early days ( handing in tags , frames ect ) I must admit over the years never caught a tagged dhue.
Alpha
Posts: 193
Date Joined: 13/02/17
Social media
I think this is were there getting there surveys from. There watching all social media sites and that's were there getting the numbers from.
The only reason they pulled the cockbourn sound Snapper ban forward 2 weeks is they monitored social media sites and realised they were 2 weeks short and people were catching Snapper. Right or wrong I'm not bothered but, was it based on science. Mmm
little johnny
Posts: 5330
Date Joined: 04/12/11
They should honestly
Bring it month prior to what it is . I have noticed over the last few years on big moons huge schools on surface doing there deed outside the sound . Is it the water quality stopping big schools entering sound ? Not overfishing , Heaps of sea grass gone .natural mussel beds gone. It’s also great seeing young kids get a trophy fish in safe conditions.( sheltered water) that would be a shame.Whatever happens won’t be end of world. I still think surveys guess work . Ones who do surveys ( frames daily catch ect) . Then do average of all other fisherman. Could be wrong unsure. Figures don’t add up.i honestly don’t think frame bins will help amateurs at all . Return back to ocean ( cray bait) or crab food. Be interesting outcome . I know what my moneys on .
Alpha
Posts: 193
Date Joined: 13/02/17
You wait LJ
when they start dredging the sound for the new outer harbour, and wreck all the weed beds all through the sound and the Snapper breeding sanctuary.
Then numbers drop who will get the blame for the lack of Squid and Snapper stocks then? Or is that just the cost of progress?
diver
Posts: 146
Date Joined: 25/09/08
Conservation
Conversation on Greay Whites has certainly worked out very well not only around Australian beaches but world spread,but coupld with the elimination of wet line/net fisheries that saw quite a few employment prospects go ,the deininying of local Austrialiaan people fresh fish (Flake) at a very reasonable price we now see a dramatic encrease in ohter shark 's I can honeslty say that I have never know or seen so many Bronzies ,Tigers & the odd GW as I have in the past 5/6 years.But on the good side ? I have also seen a dramatic decrease in divers & snorkelers
Jackfrost80
Posts: 8050
Date Joined: 07/05/12
To be honest. IF the science
To be honest. IF the science says that an extended ban would be highly beneficial to demersal stock I wouldn't be putrid knowing it's the time of year I can chase crabs, flatties, YFW etc and take the family to GI/Rotto etc.
Officially off the Pies bandwagon
duncan61
Posts: 375
Date Joined: 21/11/14
numbers
My son was randomly surveyed and the latest plan is to have an annual limit on demersals.A tag system where you record your catch on a card and you have a limit of species.How that will be policed is beyond me.The system we have is great and working
just do it.
Jim
Posts: 1321
Date Joined: 05/05/06
There is no transparency in
There is no transparency in fisheries/recfishwest decisions, just generic crap given as the reason. Public surveys don't justify judging fish stocks imo and using social media in the same way is lazy research. We are damned if we do and damned if we don't. If alot of fish pics are posted then we are catching too many, if only a few are posted there must be low numbers out there. Give us some real scientific data! Even the paper released doesn't give any real data.
Bend over
Beef Slater
Posts: 7
Date Joined: 19/10/21
Data data data
Agree will some of your points i.e. damned if we do damned if we dont.
I am not sure what you mean by no data though? Which paper did you read? The media release (www.fish.wa.gov.au/About-Us/News/Pages/west-coast-demersal-scalefish-resource-stock-assessment.aspx) is a short summary and directs you to the 2021 stock assessment (www.fish.wa.gov.au/Documents/research_reports/frr316.pdf) which is +150 pages long and is full of data, very comprehensive.
Cheers
Alan James
Posts: 2206
Date Joined: 30/06/09
Data
I read the 2021 Stock Assessment and also found it lacking in any sort of data that explained 'where we were vs where we are'. This is the data people want to see. The following is a cut and paste from the stock assessment.
"2.1 Catch and effort data
Compulsorily reported catch and effort data from each commercial fishery that retained demersal scalefish including West Australian dhufish and Snapper in the WCB since 1975 were obtained from DPIRD databases. These fisheries include the West Coast Demersal Scalefish (Interim) Managed Fishery, the Temperate demersal gillnet and long-line fisheries (i.e. West Coast Demersal Gillnet and Demersal Longline Managed Fishery and Southern Demersal Gillnet and Demersal Longline Managed Fishery, West Coast Rock Lobster Managed Fishery, South-west Trawl Managed Fishery and the Cockburn Sound Line and Pot Managed Fishery. Charter catch and effort data were obtained from compulsory logbooks introduced in 2001/02. Catch and effort data of private boat-based recreational fishers were derived from periodic surveys at boat ramps (creel surveys) prior to 2011/12 (Lai et al., 2019) and from integrated phone-diary surveys from 2011/12 onwards (see Ryan et al. 2019)."
This is hardly what I would call comprehensive data. Boat ramp surveys prior to 2011/12 and phone-diary surveys from 2011/12 onwards. Where is the science?
Beef Slater
Posts: 7
Date Joined: 19/10/21
It is there...
Hi Alan,
You are right that is not comprensive but that is just ONE of MANY inputs which feeds into the model they use in the assessments.
You say "where is the science" - there is 150 pages of science.
The whole of section 2.0 is methods plus more information in the appendix.
Suggest you have another look - I put the link here as the old one wasnt working (www.fish.wa.gov.au/Documents/research_reports/frr316.pdf)
Cheers
Alan James
Posts: 2206
Date Joined: 30/06/09
I'm not convinced
I see lots of theoretical data being applied to purported trends where the information / data has been collected from ramp surveys and phone polls. Hardly convincing. I'm not saying the stock assessment is incorrect. I'm wary of the accuracy of the findings when theoretical data, based on previous assumptions is inputted into a model. I'm sure you are familiar with the expression shit in, shit out.
little johnny
Posts: 5330
Date Joined: 04/12/11
Well said agree
How can you save stock . Tag method won’t work . You won’t keep 6 to 7 kilo dhue.( if we had so many tags per person a year) you will let it go . Possible bad outcome for dhue. Size over the years has dropped agree but there is never a issue getting your 2,dhues . Ban won’t work for dhues and pinks only. Kg gear lands them easy. Pinks on surface in sound yesterday 3 big seperate schools . In a 2 k area. Fins out of surface ( swirling) if no one posted fish agree ( there is none) post pics getting to many . Interesting times ahead . I don’t think it will happen this season . Next year I would say. If there is scientific tally’s that support the decline all good . If it’s a hand full of people doing there frames/ catch rate ect. Then it’s guess work .
donnyboat
Posts: 51
Date Joined: 16/09/17
everone read the newspaper release today
for my two cents worth, I have caught many dhu fish, late january & Febuary, that are still spawning, but the pollies wont close the season till end of Febuary, because they are to conserned about loosing vote, so for a full spawning, we have to exstend the demersible ban till the end of Febuary, and that also include the profectonal fisher s as well, or at least half there catch through that time, cheers Don.
br3nno
Posts: 351
Date Joined: 25/12/12
Selfishly I'd prefer if
Selfishly I'd prefer if commerical fishing was banned in the metropolitan region ...
The current system seems to be working but I havent seen the data. Has the fisheries published this?
BC
Brody
Posts: 1021
Date Joined: 06/02/07
Already is.
Already is.
Jim
Posts: 1321
Date Joined: 05/05/06
Ive caught snapper multiple
Ive caught snapper multiple times that are spawning way out of the main spawning season and if dhuies and snapper are treated by fisheries as one and the same, you could expect the same from dhuies for research purposes.
From what i understand recs and pros will suffer the same.
I would love to know why current up to date research is not made public.
Bend over
rob90
Posts: 1522
Date Joined: 06/02/13
Think I'm gonna take up lawn
Think I'm gonna take up lawn bowls. Fishing is becoming to political
Hi my name is rob............. and I'm a........... fishaholic
Jackfrost80
Posts: 8050
Date Joined: 07/05/12
Sporting clubs are no better
Sporting clubs are no better for politicts these days... especially bowling clubs
Officially off the Pies bandwagon
sea-kem
Posts: 14857
Date Joined: 30/11/09
But they do have cheap beer
But they do have cheap beer
Love the West!
rob90
Posts: 1522
Date Joined: 06/02/13
And beer fixes everything
And beer fixes everything
Hi my name is rob............. and I'm a........... fishaholic
Jackfrost80
Posts: 8050
Date Joined: 07/05/12
Best cure for a hangover
Best cure for a hangover
Officially off the Pies bandwagon
little johnny
Posts: 5330
Date Joined: 04/12/11
I can’t understand Charter boats
Put under recreation catch quota. I thought they where pros ? Reading article from abc . Pros want us recreational to fix issues with stocks .( we drop ours) they stay same . I would love to see charters catch ( has to be recorded) also pros which also has to be recorded ( type of fish ect). Then put amatures details up . There surveys (on people who do them ). True facts not fictional
Jim
Posts: 1321
Date Joined: 05/05/06
Jazz charters smashing the
Jazz charters smashing the pinks day in day out in nearly all weather shits me.
Bend over
rob90
Posts: 1522
Date Joined: 06/02/13
Don't go there mate, I
Don't go there mate, I copped shit for mentioning that here before.
Hi my name is rob............. and I'm a........... fishaholic
little johnny
Posts: 5330
Date Joined: 04/12/11
All goes on
Our catch rate . Pinks dumb as bat s-it . Burley spot day in day out . They are there ,hence why he fills boat every trip .
Tim
Posts: 2497
Date Joined: 26/09/06
Info Session
Hi All. We have arranged an info session from fisheries via RFW on this at Cockburn Power Boats Club friday 10/12.
Will be good for everyone to be informed before this goes to the next stage.
Link to the event here https://www.facebook.com/events/1109293172941341 or direct to free tickets here https://www.trybooking.com/BWBRS
rob90
Posts: 1522
Date Joined: 06/02/13
How did this info session
How did this info session go? Good turn out?
Hi my name is rob............. and I'm a........... fishaholic
Tim
Posts: 2497
Date Joined: 26/09/06
Session
About 30 in attendance Rob.
Was actually some good info was provided and certainly the people I spoke to came away with a better understanding of what was going on.
A few points for fisheries to consider were raised on the night which RFW will take on as well. Key will be to get some good engagemnt from the community when it goes to consultation.
little johnny
Posts: 5330
Date Joined: 04/12/11
Would have thought
Rec fish would keep everyone informed from start . Rather than secret service .and only few find out . Doesn’t matter really . They all have same agenda .
Tim
Posts: 2497
Date Joined: 26/09/06
They are
They have already put stuff out for info. They are also looking to do these sessions at lots of places. Mangles has been asked if they want one too.
sealure
Posts: 106
Date Joined: 19/05/12
The Government & its QUANGOS
The Government & its QUANGOS use the euphemism that they "consult widely " then go ahead & do what they had already decided anyway. It's just to give the impression of consultation. The Minister is able to look directly at the camera and say "We consulted widely ". It's all smoke and mirrors.
I've seen it happen repeatedly when I was working.
sea-kem
Posts: 14857
Date Joined: 30/11/09
Yep saw that first hand when
Yep saw that first hand when a big company decided they wanted to build a huge transfer/rubbish station next to our factory units. City of Canning had an open "consultation meeting" but a fellow unit owner who attended said it was a waste of time, the decision had already been made.
Love the West!
Tim
Posts: 2497
Date Joined: 26/09/06
Choice
We all have a choice. Actually make the effort to learn what is being proposed so you can make an informed decision around what to do about it or to sit back and do nothing.
Seems a lot of people think complaining on social media these days is enough effort for them and then blame everyone else when it doesnt go their way.
Alan James
Posts: 2206
Date Joined: 30/06/09
Fair comment Tim
however people want to be informed of the science behind any proposed restrictions. We are continually reminded that all decisions are based on the best science available and yet I see none. See my post further up. If I've missed something please direct me to the page(s) of the report that refer to the science which supports the decresing / increasing stock numbers. Ramp surveys are not science.
Beef Slater
Posts: 7
Date Joined: 19/10/21
Could not agree more
Completely agree Tim - good stuff.
Beef Slater
Posts: 7
Date Joined: 19/10/21
Could not agree more
Completely agree Tim - good stuff.
little johnny
Posts: 5330
Date Joined: 04/12/11
What is will be not end of world
From what I’ve heard ( could be wrong) . Doesn’t matter about who says what , where and when . ( social media ect) decisions have been made.and it’s final .
Scotte
Posts: 1142
Date Joined: 07/12/06
What is the proposal?
What is the proposal?
little johnny
Posts: 5330
Date Joined: 04/12/11
Ask Tim
He will know .
Tim
Posts: 2497
Date Joined: 26/09/06
Know
You seem to know whats going to happen more than me johnny. Didnt you say a long ban is a done deal?
I just want people to get up to speed with whats going on rather than sit back and get stuck with whatever comes our way which is why I arranged a talk at CPBC. Mangles is looking to do the same as well as other clubs and for the same reason.
The greenies and animal rights groups get organized with this stuff. Us not so much.
Only way to offer any options will be by understanding what they are looking for and offering alternative options. Politics will come into the result as much as anything else.
Scotte
Posts: 1142
Date Joined: 07/12/06
I heard the news
I heard the news today.
Doesn't sound too good
little johnny
Posts: 5330
Date Joined: 04/12/11
Tim not having a dig at all
All is set in concrete . Doesn’t matter who you are . What you do . Whinge/ cry / post on social media. Means nothing you are right . If there scientist think stocks are in danger it’s a done deal . Ask twiggy Forrest about snapper stocks in sound . Every mussel line smashed. Pinks have come back in huge numbers .even out deep can’t get away from them . Dhues different story. Any dhue you have to let go on release led is f$&@ed. But you have to carry one . Is that so they are not seen floating dead on surface ? I’ve been around long time in fishing . More and more trial bans come in ( then they are set in concrete) this will be. No different .i do not know answer to dhue situation at all . But I never struggle with them ( not being smart ass) is it education on how to harvest one area . Then following week go completely different direction from where you know where fish are. Who knows? Not you not me . I have always been against realease leds for dhues . Recfish got smart deal done for deep droppers years ago . They allowed 1 banded cod over a meter long ( good for deep droppers) and for fish stocks .try realease 25 kilo plus cod in 200 plus meters . Yep won’t happen . Just sinking dead fish.( out of site out of mind) cray bait