Cockburn Sound Fish Kill - Considered Hypothesis

There has been much discussion about the “mystery” of the Cockburn Sound fish kill over the last couple of weeks.  I have read it with interest, and have a career of dealing with pollution issues and management of hazardous sites.  I have investigated a number of fish kill instances, and have had to respond to environmental emergencies for clients to direct works so as to prevent pollutant release.

In my opinion, the fish kill was caused by an acute toxic event that was short lived.  The fish were previously healthy (undigested food in the gut) but were killed in an instant.  The event was indiscriminate as a number of fish species were killed by it, including cephalopods, bivalves and everything else as well.

When a pollutant is added to water it will mix, dependent on a number of factors.  This will create a “plume” that disperses based on the conditions that prevail.  The concentrations of the pollutant, and whether it will kill biota on contact, will vary throughout the plume.  It is a complex science, particularly in an estuarine environment.

My hypothesis is, and it is only a hypothesis, that there has been a spill of a strong acid or a strong base, or a deoxygenating substance, that has been released to waters in significant quantities.  Fish, and other marine life is killed instantly if it has to swim or exist in water (the plume) with a pH lower than 3 or greater than 11, or dissolved oxygen <1mg/L. 

There are a number of other pollutants that will also indiscriminately kill biota instantly in a plume, again adding to the uncertainty of the cause of the event.  I don’t think there is much doubt that the event is a chemical spill of some type however.

Will the Government find the business that caused this, probably not.  In a lot of situations the plume disperses and is gone and no “after event” testing will ever discover the real cause of something that diminishes to background levels over a few hours.  I suspect that this is why there has been no cause identified.  I would expect fish biologists to shed some light on the mechanism of mortality when all the detailed autopsies are complete though.    

The loss of the big breeding pinkies is a tragedy.  I note there have been further recent reports of fish deaths but I would think this is a residual “wash up” of the original event where dead individuals are only “floating” now.

Anyway, that’s my opinion for what it’s worth. 

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Awesome input

Wed, 2015-12-02 10:18

 Great information there Mick sounds like you know your stuff bit of a shame the culprits may never be known so this sort of thing dose not happen again however there were reports yesterday of fresh pink snapper kills and numerous blowies dead aswell ? 

 

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Wed, 2015-12-02 10:22

 Interesting read Mick, but it would need to be a massive spill I would think and that wouldn't  / shouldn't be hard to hide surely. There's a handful of sites along the Kwinana strip that could fit the bill, but a spill from any of them wouldn't make it's way too far into the sound before it dissipated I wouldn't have thought.

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Doesn't have to be massive

Wed, 2015-12-02 10:29

I dealt with a situation wherby a business "lost" an intermediate bulk container of concentrated sulphuric acid to waters.  It was less that 1,000L but it killed everything.  We did manage to contain that, and create a refuge for the fish, but the clean-up cost was very high.  All that carnage with less than a cubic metre of liquid being released (the pH in the creek was less than 1).  

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 Is it possible that the

Wed, 2015-12-02 10:37

 Is it possible that the water samples taken were taken from too far from the cause to indicate a presence of abnormal substances / levels ? 

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Samples

Wed, 2015-12-02 10:44

Yes, and too late as the cause has dispersed. Although the fish death numbers seem high, they are realisticaly a fraction of the total population in the Sound at the time.  I think the dead fish were just in the wrong place at the wrong time by swimming through the "wrong" volume of water. 

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I read on fisheries website

Wed, 2015-12-02 10:40

I read on fisheries website that fresh dead fish were found yesterday 

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Residual Pollutants

Wed, 2015-12-02 11:03

Some pollutants are also residual, and can surface to kill again.  I dealt with another situation where 100 odd tonnes of honey was released to waters after a factory fire.  Honey doesn't dissolve in water that well and there were pockets of it all through the system.  The bacteria would consume the honey and consume the oxygen in the water at the same time.  When this water moved it caused further mortality, long after the original event.  In the end we had to "chase" it all the way up the drain system and get it out from where it was trapped.  We only really discoverd that we had trapped honey in the system through extensive monitoring at lot's of locations. 

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Just out of interest with

Thu, 2015-12-03 21:41

Just out of interest with honey Mick, to my knowledge it was an antibacterial agent. Interesting that this particular bacteria fed off it

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It is useful as an antibacterial agent

Mon, 2015-12-07 12:52

in certain conditions, like wound infection and chronic ulcers. But the effect lamby is basically Osmotic. It is such a concentrated source of Carbohydrate that it draws out moisture out of bacteria and causes them to dehydrate. Remember the old school science, fluid will move across a semi permeable membrane to an area of high concentration to rebalance the concentrations.

As a substance it has some extra properties that stop some bacteria from "spoiling" it in the hive, but in the end it is just sugar and bacteria will certainly be able to digest this especially when it is slowly diluted in water. No surprise to me by Mick's tale.

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Not doubting Mick's account,

Tue, 2015-12-08 18:13

Not doubting Mick's account, in fact I was intrigued hence my comment. Yes quite familiar with osmosis & cheers for your input but makes more sense given the hygroscopic property of honey

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Thank you very much for your educated post/comments

Wed, 2015-12-02 10:59

Thanks Mick C for some insight as to what may have happened, in my view it will be an absolute crime if the source of the spill is not identified. However I believe that most of the industries along the Kwinana strip are on a "self regulating and reporting system", which basically means they will get away with what they can if it means an increase in profit for the share holders.
remember the BP deep water endeavour rig incident in the gulf of Mexico.

Being held accountable for such a catastrophe to the spawning snapper bio-mass is certainly reason enough to stay silent, as the costs to try to counter the damage would be the stuff to make your eyes water, (quite apart from effecting cash and share bonuses of the CEO)

Never the less, I believe that the cause of this disaster should be pursued with all the resources of government and vigour that can be mustered.

A couple of years back there was a major blow out on an oil rig off shore at the top end of WA (not sure of the name of the company involved) and it was a case of the government of the day doing all it could to facilitate a "friendly outcome" with no bad press for the company, and that is what I fear will happen here.

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Montara

Wed, 2015-12-02 11:09

The oil company was PTTEP (thai Government owned) and the field was Montara.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montara_oil_spill

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Thanks for that

Wed, 2015-12-02 14:20

Thanks for the info I just couldn't remember the name of the company involved, I remembered that it was a big spill though.

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NOPSEMA

Wed, 2015-12-02 20:24

There was an enquiry into the Montara fire and spill that came up with many recommendations after examining what went wrong.  One of these was to have a regulatory body and the National Offshore Petroleum Safety and Environmental Management Authority (NOPSEMA) came into existence.  It is fair to say the Australia has some of the most stringent laws in relation to offshore oil and gas activities now.  Accidents still happen though.  

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 I've seen a nopsema report

Wed, 2015-12-02 21:00

 I've seen a nopsema report before Mick while working offshore, like a phone book. And you are right about stringent laws, I've heard of rigs sitting for months at a mill a day waiting for NOPSEMA approval just to move to their sit of operations. It's a fantastic industry but sadly farked at the moment and for a while yet thanks to the arabs.

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People don't understand how

Fri, 2015-12-04 07:05

People don't understand how heavily scrutinised and heavily regulated the offshore O&G industry is in Australia. Cant tip your coffee cup dregs overboard without it being a reportable incident.

How many bait bags do you see floating around? how much discarded fishing line?

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Fri, 2015-12-04 08:47

 

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NOPSEMA

Mon, 2015-12-07 17:35

 NOPSEMA is funded by industry. Management appointed by government. Personally I think theyre on the side of the company. Previously was NOPSA which was the regulator well before NOPSEMA. 

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Lets remember that we only

Wed, 2015-12-02 11:02

Lets remember that we only saw a small % of what was killed in this event 800-1000 pinks, IMO the number would be a lot higher. I agree with Mick, IMO something was released into the sound. For all we know it could have come of one of the bulk carriers in the sound. If the PH was reduced or increased, then signs of this should be evident on the gills. as mussels are bio feeders I believe they would show any toxin that was released. smarter people than me looking at this, just my 2c

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Lets remember that we only

Wed, 2015-12-02 11:04

double post

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More drum lines, kill the bloody sharks!

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So it would be logical to

Wed, 2015-12-02 11:06

So it would be logical to ascertain what kinds of substances in the local area would change the water quality to the extent you described above, Mick C, and we would be closer to finding those responsible ? Cheers for the great insight. 

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good read

Wed, 2015-12-02 11:10

Thanks Mick C,

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navy doing deep probe sonar testing

Wed, 2015-12-02 11:13

 At frequency of 60 khz which is known to be fatal to fish life

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Possible

Wed, 2015-12-02 11:18

Possible, but Defence is usually fairly aware of its hazardous activities and conducts them to minimise harm.  Testing its equipment where there are known aggregating breeding fish schools seems unlikely.  If this was the cause, I think the autopsies would probably pick it up. 

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 Does it f*@k with their

Wed, 2015-12-02 11:15

 Does it f*@k with their gills but ?

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Impact of Severe "Noise" Event

Wed, 2015-12-02 22:33

If it was a "noise" event the fish ear bones would be destroyed, and the lateral nerves along the skin would be impacted.  A fish biologist would discover this quickly on inspection. 

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Fish Kills

Wed, 2015-12-02 11:45

I heard a rumour last night that there was a dolphin and penguins found washed up now.
Has anyone else heard or seen this?

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Wed, 2015-12-02 12:07

 One of these ships that come in to bring different chemicals etc to CSBP and Alcoa to name a couple could have easily opened the wrong valve or something too. You probably wouldn't know a thing if something like that happens 

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Fisheries WA

Wed, 2015-12-02 12:53

We as a community are major stake holders of our local waters and waterways. Therefore, as for any major stake holders we should be getting regular and detailed updates from fisheries WA outlining theories and the testing they are conducting or propose to carry out.

I understand it can be difficult to ascertain the cause of such an event, but the lack of information being provided by the experts is leading to speculation by the community. Moreover, last Friday the department actually sounded out the all clear for the Sound with a caveat reading "We remind anyone not to swim or fish in water that looks discoloured, murky, or smells unpleasant, or where there are large numbers of dead fish".

I think someone on the forum already commented on how fisheries is able to sound the all clear on the Sound if they are unaware of the causes? which is alarming knowing 3 days after the communique the fish kills are still evident.

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I worked

Wed, 2015-12-02 14:13

I worked in the chemical industry on the strip for apox 7 years. There are a few companies that could easily be the offenders but may never be known.
If an operator accidently turned the wrong valve or introduced the wrong fluid etc to the wrong system, it might not have been reported.
Now it might have been an error that was not even noticed or the shift on duty covered up the mistake.( speculation )
In the reports by fisheries is was stated that the fish had abnormal liver and kidney issues. We all know what normally would cause these abnormalities, Drug and alcohol abuse over many years of use. But it would be fair to say that the fish killed were unlikely to have been getting pissed and smoking meth all their lives.
So there are a only a few chemicals that could cause the liver and kidneys to deform in such a short time. And there are only a few companies on the industrial strip with said chemicals and with outlets or access to the shore line and waters of Cockburn Sound.
Another option could be old discarded chemicals of some type that were dumped back in the day when it was accepted practice. We know the old power station dumped hundreds of transformers and drums of PCB's of the beach at Coogee many years ago as an example.
Many companies dumped in the ocean before legislation forced them to store the chemicals, then years later they were forced to remove them from storage and destroy them.
So if an item were to finally rupture and spill its contents this could create the fish kill we have now, but again it would be hard to prove or even find the source after it dispersed in the ocean.
IMO , it is possible all round the world we might see this type of event happen more frequently, because we have no idea of how much toxic waste was dumped at sea before regulations were introduced.
These are just my thoughts and speculation, I am not chemical engineer but when I was in the industry and learned a lot about the practices of dumping chemical waste, it scared the shit out of me and to this day still worry about the problems we will encounter in the future.

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Re: Chemical Spill

Wed, 2015-12-02 15:25

 Back in the early seventies it was the norm for one chemical plant in cockburn to pump their spills into cockburn sound (huge amounts that could be seen from shore) but that never caused fish deaths in the area, still not convinced it was a chemical it would have to quite a heavy concentration not to disapate ???

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Toxicity

Wed, 2015-12-02 20:52

Different chemicals have different toxicities to marine life.  The usual measure of toxicity in water is the LC50 (the concentration of the contaminant that kills 50% of the test specimins - LC = lethal concentration).  There are lots of issues with this test which I won't go into, apart from you have to kill things, but some substances will kill fish at sub milligram per litre levels.  You don't need to lose many kilos of a highly toxic substance to achieve these levels in a large volume of water.  Mixtures of pollutants also complicates things.

Another fish kill event I investigated was at a remote island in PNG.  A gold mining company used a cyanide leach process and through equipment design failure, the waste was seeping through the ground into the lagoon and killing all the fish - the villagers food supply.  The volume of the release was very small but the substance was that toxic nothing had a chance.  Of course the mine was shut down and our subsequent work was about ensuring systems were in place so that it did not happen again.

It is usual that the more toxic the substance you store/use the more stringent the controls are to minimise the risk of release.  But, accidents do happen, particularly if you are dealing with older facilities where the required controls were not built in initially.

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 So we don't really know how

Wed, 2015-12-02 17:36

 So we don't really know how safe land based fishing is north of floreat and south end of mandurah... guess i will just have to catch and release dor the next couple of years..

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Canola according to ch 9

Wed, 2015-12-02 18:40

 Also skin rashes on  some swimmers, didn't they watch for plumes etc.

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grantarctic1

Wed, 2015-12-02 18:44

I don't know anything about the dumping, but I can only imagine it went on commonplace before rules were made or enfornced. What kind of companies discarded what kind of products / wastes ?

On another note, as for the Coogee powerstation are any of these old transformers still lying at the bottom to see or fish around ? 

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In the late 60s

Wed, 2015-12-02 21:40

 In the late 60s, toxic waste was phased out from being dumped into landfill sites around Australia. With no where to get rid ot the stuff , companys started to offload most of it illegally, on land and into the ocean. 

There are not alot of records about it in WA, but it was documented in Sydney somewhat.  www.abc.net.au/4corners/stories/2011/08/08/3288464.htm

Old transformers were dumped into the cooling pond in front of the south Fremantle power station. PCB oils were also poured into the pond resulting in it leaching into the ocean and surounding land.

After the authorities started to clamp down on the toxic waste dumping, companies then had to store all these waste products until destruction was available.

In the late 90s, time had run out and the government set a deadline for the removal and destruction of the stored products. I was involved in the clean up and destruction processes for aprox 7 years. 

I cant go into too much detail, but many transformers and drums of unknown materials were removed from hundreds of sites around Western Australia including the power plant. 

Many sites had to have the soils removed, as containers stored had leaked after years of storage. You can do a search of Coogee and see the dramas they have had with the development of the area for housing. In the 80s there were signs all around Coogee beach saying not to swim or eat any sea food from the area.

PCBs will dissipate over time, this means they didnt go away, just spread out with water movement and leached deeper into the ground. This goes for most other chemicals too, they never disappear, just thin out and spread out until testing shows they are within acceptable levels for us to live with ( so to speak ) 

 

 

 

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What would 20 litres of Biocide do?

Wed, 2015-12-02 18:53

The situation is not very good. I can't imagine how many juvenile fish have been lost. 

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Good read Mick

Wed, 2015-12-02 20:54

 Answer 1 question. Almost had me. Why is d9 inside pinny bubbles ect full off life? Under coat hanger outside coat hanger. Causway fish  dead. If it was company wouldn't strip have first deaths ? Only time fish washed up on challenger beach Alcoa power station dog beach. Was on s wester 4 days after fish where found dead near coat hanger. Hmmmm. If it was any company it would be known .and herring crabs and yellow tail would not be hanging around under lights at night around jetty where I work . Iam still going with fish pox from Rex hunt kissing them years ago. Good read but bull s-- t. Why where fisheries picking up dead fish outside coat hanger today. Surely they would be in front off strip. Bp. Alcoa . Austral ships. Csbp. Lol nothing dead that way. If it was that end of sound . All off us would be sick. Hint fresh water from salt still running into our water supply . Hmmm unsure . Once again we will never know. Could be act of God?. 2 freshys yesterday 300 meters of shore. Rocko end long way to swim from strip to die???

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Correction

Wed, 2015-12-02 21:05

 They may not have been picking them up. Just very close to them. Didn't see them scoop any. Just right place at wrong time maybe. Why where news rocko end.? Why did news go to rocko sea rescue? Surely cockburn sea rescue closer to strip if that's where it started. Need to understand currents and flows through sound.mmmmmm

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Nail on the Head

Wed, 2015-12-02 21:14

I think you hit the nail on the head mate.  The event happend a while ago and the location of the "wash ups" is likely to be dictated by the prevailing currents, winds, fish bouyancy, fish mass, fish surface area, etc, etc

My hypothesis is really just an informed guess, but all the signs are pointing to a short term acute toxic event of some description.  

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Agree

Wed, 2015-12-02 21:45

 With the reports i have read, i have to agree.

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No dig

Wed, 2015-12-02 21:29

 Most deaths now are bottom dwellers ( scabs off ocean) . Blowies trumps and butterfish. Could it be repercussion of original pink deaths.?? Didn't see anything today( pink wise) . If it is good bye crabs .

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Hydrophobic Compounds

Wed, 2015-12-02 22:08

Hard to say and any comment is pure speculation as I don't have enough facts.

Some toxins are hydrophobic, which means they are quite water insoluble and will be attracted to and absorb to sediments.  When in the water column just after the release they may have been at toxic concentrations to kill the pinkies, but ultimately ended up in the sediment near the source (sediment contains "fats" that will dissolve the compounds).  Bottom dwellers may then be exposed to lethal concentrations due to proximity or injestion (even very water insoluble compounds will partition between water and sediment, but with most in the sediment) and this may explain your observation, with no certainty whatsoever.

It would actually be a good thing, if that is possible, if it was this type of chemical involved.  Hydrophobic compounds can generally be detected at very low (nanograms or picograms per kg, if they contain halogens) levels in soils/sediments and it would make tracking the source quite possible.  The costs of doing this stuff are very high (boats, drill rigs, laboratory testing, reporting, more tests, etc, etc).  If you couldn't make the polluter pay it would be quite a draw on State resources.  

The first thing to really look at is whether the mortality is actually continuing or we are just observing further "wash ups".  If mortality is continuing then the matter is very urgent, and someone should spend the money to stop it as soon as practicable.

 

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1 last thing

Wed, 2015-12-02 21:42

 Snapper tagging . I know off 2 guys who tagged heaps weeks before deaths . Other end off sound. Any wash up with tags????

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 There was def one tagged one

Thu, 2015-12-03 10:30

 There was def one tagged one found, was on the tv! They didnt say anything about the id but that's a very good question where it was tagged!

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 Side track here, but did I

Thu, 2015-12-03 11:00

 Side track here, but did I see a large boat parked in your drive Vin??

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 Stick to the topic!

Thu, 2015-12-03 13:09

 Stick to the topic!

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Thu, 2015-12-03 13:57

 

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Its not hard to point a

Wed, 2015-12-02 22:21

Its not hard to point a finger at Careening Bay being the main starting point of this event with the outgoing tide killing more on its way out under the Causeway Bridge as well as fish deaths along the south side of Garden Island.
I cant see the current users of this bay owning up to any incidents they may have had with loss of containment!!

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Good post Mick

Thu, 2015-12-03 08:58

 Good to hear some rational explanation for a possible cause.

Your post also highlights the very real possibility that a definitive cause and/or source of the event may never be known, despite the efforts of government and other bodies to investigate.

Makes a welcome break from some of the conspiracy theories.

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I'm no expert

Thu, 2015-12-03 09:35

 But seems pretty coincidental that there was a grain spill at the time the fish started carking it and why the fuck are we only hearing about this now ???? 

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There was plenty of news on

Thu, 2015-12-03 09:42

There was plenty of news on the grain spill when it happened, more coverage than there was on the fish deaths anyway.. nothing linking them until now though

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Grain Spill

Thu, 2015-12-03 10:08

Grain in water would have a high biological oxygen demand (BOD).  This situation would be quite similar to the honey event I described above.

The grain would sit in the water and be consumed by microbes that through their growth and reproduction would consume oxygen in the surrounding water.  This "bad" water could then be flushed by currents into the Sound.  If the dissolved oxygen level in the water was low enough it would kill fish immediately and would be an acute toxic event consistent with my hypothesis.  This is not a chemical toxicity rather the introduction of grain to the water and its subsequent decomposition significantly alters the water quality to the point that it is toxic to fish bacause they can't "breathe" in it.  Death is rapid if a fish can't extract oxygen from the water it is swimming in.  This is also consistent with the reports that the dead fish showed signs of respiritory distress.

Should the company that spilled the grain be aware of the risk it would pose if left to "rot" in the water - of course they should.  I conducted environmental audits on a number of bulk grain terminals many years ago and one of the major reccomendations was to prevent excessive grain being discharged to water, for exactly the reason above.  If this is the cause then is the company negligent in not cleaning up sufficiently, I would think that there is certainly a case to answer.  

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id assume mick the grain

Thu, 2015-12-03 11:14

id assume mick the grain being spilt into the water would also act like a natural burley for some species like snapper first off ??
potentially bring in large numbers to feed on it ?/ as the water quality around them deteriorated quickly with oxygen depletion ?

this would be especially excarberated in shallow water on hot days ?

hezzy

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Lured to their Death

Thu, 2015-12-03 11:18

I'd say there is a fair chance your right there.  It would probably take some time (days) for the grain to "rot" and before that, it would be a free feed.  The fish may then know about the food source and potentially return.  After some time, the water surrounding the grain would be oxygen deprived and kill them quickly.  Quite plausible really.  

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 Sounds like the most logical

Thu, 2015-12-03 11:23

 Sounds like the most logical reason so far. I'd lay my money on this scenario.

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Not an expert

Mon, 2015-12-07 13:05

But sus on this, due to reports kidneys and liver showed signs of toxicity. Suffocation wont cause this. Needs another "toxin" to do this.

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Grain ?

Thu, 2015-12-03 11:27

The dead ones were said to have full stomachs so was there grain found in there ?

If there was then the fish were obviously around that area !!

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it would be interesting to

Thu, 2015-12-03 11:29

it would be interesting to correlate the water temps & land temperatures/prevailing winds with the dates of the grain spill , known tides, water depths etc in that grain spill area & volume of grain spilled

im thinking it may shine the light on a chain of events that have taken place here & could explain it

would also be good to know what measures where put in place to remove or contain the spilt grain by the company involved to discount or confirm the above possibility

hezzy

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axey45's picture

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 Just as i thought, thanks

Thu, 2015-12-03 11:33

 Just as i thought, thanks Mick C the nail on the head rite there.

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Just remember Canola seed is

Thu, 2015-12-03 11:58

Just remember Canola seed is in fact "Rape" seed, member of the mustard seed family, GM.

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They also

Thu, 2015-12-03 12:04

They also use fungicides and pesticides on grain that is to be stored.
However, The types used are supposed to disperse quickly without adverse effects to the environment.

Mick C's picture

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Pesticides

Thu, 2015-12-03 21:36

It is possible that an initial pesticide release from the spilled grain was the cause of mortality.  I don't know a lot about the spill event, but if a lot of grain was released to waters then kilograms of pesticide could go with it.

Pesticides are very toxic to marine organisims, and this is a well documented fact (plenty were banned years ago because of toxicity and bioaccumulation issues).  The LC50's for many pesticides used now are probably in the milligrams per litre range.

This cause is plausible as well, subject to review of facts.

 

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 What will it do to the

Thu, 2015-12-03 12:20

 What will it do to the mussel farm near the grain terminal? Mussels that is.

 

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 Well Bob Maumill is onto

Thu, 2015-12-03 13:58

 Well Bob Maumill is onto this with a rage. If anyone follows him on facebook or not check out his comments.

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ok here goes with my therory

Thu, 2015-12-03 23:03

we will never know what caused the fish kill not being paranoid just stating a fact , aussie navy are testing a new sonar system , and testing it in the sound wouldn't have any thing to do with that would it????

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I cant understand how grain

Thu, 2015-12-03 23:36

I cant understand how grain can be an issue on the other side of the sound??? For those people miss informed the fish kill started within the naval base Harbour!
This is miles away from any grain or Desal issue even with the prevailing winds(strong SW).
The fish were spawning in the bay one day and all dead the next! very fast acting? it has also been a mention of fire fighting foam finding its way into Careening Bay?
It has all so been recorded that the water Temps were normal for this time of year.

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With all I have read I am

Fri, 2015-12-04 06:29

With all I have read I am thinking that its the water in the sound, with all the BP, Alcoa, CSBP, CBH, Kwinana Power Station, Desal plant etc playing a part in reducing the quality of the water in the sound. It may have taken only a small incident or spill to push it over the edge. hence no smoking gun.... Yet

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 was out fishing just before

Fri, 2015-12-04 07:20

 was out fishing just before this all happened as we went out passed a ship that was named ISIS wtf then this happened hmmmm  bloddy good read and comments by all though is very hush hush as to the truth as if the ban wasnt enough now this 

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No need for a ban now that

Fri, 2015-12-04 08:10

No need for a ban now that every thing has gone

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Hopefully someone who works

Fri, 2015-12-04 08:21

Hopefully someone who works at one of the chemical plants who knows what happened will blow the whoistle on their employer, it is about the only chance we have.

Fisheries will no doubt call it an environmental event!

I am guessing it is not the first time these spills have occurred, the lower numbers of squid, and crabs in the sound for the last couple of years may well be far more than environmental.

I also happened to hear that there is a regulator for cockburn sound that does water sampling on a regular basis (not sure how regularly) and they only do it over summer and were due to begin on Dec 1.

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http://www.csmc.wa.gov.au/ind

Fri, 2015-12-04 08:41

http://www.csmc.wa.gov.au/index.html
Good reading is you have some time on your hands.
When I look back 45 years at how Cockburn Sound was, and how it is today its no wonder the fish are dying

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spills what spills?

Fri, 2015-12-04 09:04

remember all the crap that goes on when they put industry in the sound, nuhh safe as houses, it would never happen, impossible, what does history tell us,bullshit!! over and over again and for that member of parl. to say it wouldn't happen under a labor gov, heard it all now, going under the carpet!!

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It's not industry

Fri, 2015-12-04 20:15

 Load of cods. Why did gills look fried. All industries chemicals would have been picked up in tests?? 

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still my opinion

Fri, 2015-12-04 20:35

the aussie navy are complist in this scandal we will never know what happened as they will use the national secrecy act to cover it up and yes I do support our ADF as an ex army regular serviceman myself but they should come clean on what they have been testing in the sound going to ask my federal mp to ask questions of the minister for defence in parliament as to what sonar testing the navy has been doing in the sound

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 https://www.youtube.com/watc

Sat, 2015-12-05 13:21

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZhApBm5eCU

 

Interesting that this has happened during all the environmental discussions/debate over Fremantle Port, Beeliar Wetlands/Roe 8, outer habour in Cockburn... 

 

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 Some of the conspiracy

Sat, 2015-12-05 19:50

 Some of the conspiracy theory's are sensational.just curious, how many people believe Neil Armstrong was first on the moon?

 

ROCKPOM's picture

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If you find Dead tagged

Sat, 2015-12-05 23:09

If you find Dead tagged Pinkies please try to capture the lenghts of the snappers with the tag numbers as it will help not waste important research information! At least they wouldnt have died for nothing!!

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 I have been following this

Sun, 2015-12-06 05:42

 I have been following this thread with great interest,  I even contacted my local AFANT guy who gave me the info to contact recfish west, where I sent a Facebook message to give them a heads up.

Its sad to see you are no closer to finding answers even Sundays with MACA on Australia all over, that weekend had nothing on this event.

 

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Fisheries Scientists

Sun, 2015-12-06 19:08

With all due respect, I don't think the fisheries scientists are the best people to be investigating this - in reference to meglodon's comment in the "rally" thread.

I don't think there is a lot of doubt that this is a pollution event of some sort, and investigation of the cause requires skills and experience that people trained specifically in fisheries science probably don't have.

Unfortunately the more time that passes makes it harder and harder to identify the cause.  I agree that the Department needs to source people with relevant expertise and experience, but this should have been done as soon as the gross mortality was observed - something like this is "no time to learn on the job". 

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 Spot on there, think most of

Sun, 2015-12-06 19:44

 Spot on there, think most of the fisheries guys are a bunch of under experienced muppets, but that's what you get for under paid government  workers. I have made  a request for Fisheries to publish  any autopsy findings to be made public as this would allow better scientists to view the results to possibly uncover the source and give some transparency to this debacle.

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Jason you should meet the

Mon, 2015-12-07 15:45

Jason you should meet the research department guys and share your thoughts as it seems you are well versed in sharing your veiw of hard working under paid PHD scientists.

These guys and girls over the last 15 years have been trying improve Snapper/Crab biomass recovery in the metro area only to be hindered by profit makers that use these waters as a free resource/dumping ground!

 

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 Yeah good point Rockpom. My

Tue, 2015-12-08 06:36

 Yeah good point Rockpom. My missus looks after a lot of the guys union wise and has said on many occasion they could be earning big bucks in the private sector but choose to do the job they do for the love of it and  a just reasonable salary. As I said beforwe there would be guys in the fisheries dep just as devastated as we all are as this is the job they do to look after the ocean and waterways with the funding they have and to see it go down the toilet would break their hearts. Some fucker knows something and I'm betting one of the private companies along the sound somewhere.

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Thoughts...

Mon, 2015-12-07 16:03

Rockpom is spot on there!

Also a few issues with your idea of releasing autopsy finding. If they release data to the public (ie. fisheries website) then the data cannot be published in peer-review journals as it is then deemed to be in the public domain and hence public knowledge. On the other hand if they submit the data for peer-review publication it can take months to be accepted and the only way the general public can access this is if the "under experienced muppets" willingly pay up to about $3000 to have the data made public.

Alot easier said than done...

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 Still can't belive that they

Mon, 2015-12-07 19:23

 Still can't belive that they can't find anything wrong with so many fish dead give Gil Grissom a call, and if what your saying about the releasing the findings for public knowledge sounds like too much red tape. Just way too suss for my liking.

" rel="nofollow">[IMG]http://i1372.photobucket.com/albums/ag359/jason_pearson1/there-is-always-4ypmiz_zpsx6pesugp.jpg[IMG]

 

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Unfortunately real-world

Tue, 2015-12-08 12:59

Unfortunately real-world science isnt done overnight as CSI would like everyone to believe.

Im sure they have found things wrong with these fish but due to the nature of the accident and the huge public interest they would have to be 100% certian they have the correct cause. If they state that company X is the reason behind the deaths and then a few days later realise they might have it wrong their ass is on the line bigtime.

I wouldnt call it red tape more jumping through hoops and then back through the same hoops again. Its the way all science works unfortunatly but its to ensure that someone can claim the work/findings as their own if there is ever a dispute as to who found it first. It can be a real pain in the ass!

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Never

Mon, 2015-12-07 16:41

Just heard Dr Andrew Rowland, Recfishwest's Chief Executive say on ABC720 radio that 'he' believes the cause of this will never be known. He also stated he'd be happy to now eat seafood caught in the sound.

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Lol big John

Mon, 2015-12-07 19:43

 I will give him a pack off fillets. From ocean floor . :):):)

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.

Mon, 2015-12-07 20:10

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There you go

Mon, 2015-12-07 18:13

 Natural causes!! Whos going to swallow that!!

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