V5 BAN West Australia Paper
Have you all read the West Australian this morning, (Page 75) I quote,
"Charter boat operators are believed to be close to brokering a deal for concessions on the new seasonal fishing bans covering vulnerable species, including pink snapper and dhufish.
The Department of Fisheries is considering a short-term reprieve that will allow tour operators to fish for the so-called vulnerable five on limited days during this year's seasonal restriction."
Hubbie (Bob) reckons it is a disgrace, one out all out, Why should a person that doesn't own a boat be able to go and fish what I can't fish in the V5 Ban, after I have spent money servicing boat, registeration boat/trailer, buying fishing tackle, bait and doing the right thing, returning unsize fish/crayfish etc. Don't know about you lot on this site but I'm angry, very angry if this is given the ok.
Stoinka
Posts: 52
Date Joined: 02/09/06
Unbelievable
Good law abiding citizens getting pushed closer to the edge,
Well i reckon your only a criminal when you get caught.
Dont no nothin about a V5 Ban, said a person from Collie
They have also taken away the ban on catching Blue Bone at the Islands.
TerryF
Posts: 370
Date Joined: 11/08/05
More about possible charter boat concessions
More of that story from Saturday's West Australian:-
There's more than 1 way to manage the total catches of fish.
The most important thing is to manage, limit and control the number of fish killed.
Limited fishing days for charter boats would mean that they can't fish on some days when other recreational anglers can fish.
It's swings and roundabouts if all the sums are done properly and openly and equitably and details are available to the public. Yep, see the IF
TerryF
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Beavering away in the background.......
Shag
Posts: 914
Date Joined: 15/10/06
If they dont give the
If they dont give the charter boat guys a bit of lee way then they will go out of bussiness .Its already a risk to pay $200 to go out fishing with them and have the chance of catching SFA let alone catch something decent and have to release it CHEERS SHAG
Dreamweaver
Posts: 4561
Date Joined: 01/12/07
Actually....
I could see this as an absolute boon for the charter boats. On the days that they receive concessions within the WCB, anyone that wants to target V5 would be compelled by legislation to book on a charter! If you can afford it and get on that is.
The other side of the coin of course being that you may now have an opportunity to fish the V5 (via charter) - but, of course at a cost and not on your own boat!
That said I really can understand REC fishers within the WCB being upset.
First season up, it IS a hard pill to swallow - no you can't retain V5 fish (remember, it's not illegal to fish for them!), but then there is now the prospect of a second pill in the very first season that REC fishos could be asked to swallow:
'They can and you can't'.
Ever tried to swallow two very large pills at once? They usually get stuck in your throat!
Setting aside the divided perspectives on the veracity of the WCB V5 seasonal retention ban for a moment, the inaugural introduction of this season, entailing curtailment of prized species during the prime recreational period, is unarguably, a very big change for many recreational fishos within the WCB.
Should these possible concessions come to fruition, many would see this as a very large quantity of salt being poured into a very fresh wound.
On the issue of divided perspectives on the veracity of the WCB V5 seasonal retention ban, there will, no doubt, be many that hitherto begrudgingly accepted and tenuously even respect the ban, but who's tenuous strings will be sorely tested and even snapped by what could reasonably be seen as inequittable.
Many would put forward the view and out cry that concessional days should apply to all. This would appease and address the commercial criticality of commercial fishing charter owners and, at the same time, provide equitability and palatability. It would, by the way, also address one of the lynch pin points put forward by many recreational fishos, and that was to have a longer period, with some windows of opportunity.
For the tackle industry, sorry guys but it would appear that your commercial criticality is apparently less imperative than others.
Colin Molloy
(Colin 2 - Co-founding member of the prestigious Colin Club)
jersey
Posts: 93
Date Joined: 12/06/08
Apathy amongst recreationals
We only have ourselves to blam,When submissions were first called by the former (I hope ) minister for fisheries only 1300 were recieved from the recreational community I have been told,wereas over 20.000 were recieved from the commercial interests,it would seem they got united and took the time to mount a coordinated effort to get their own way,much as the proffessional cray lobby have done over the years,lets face it,we all pay taxes,buy boats ,trailers ,fuel,bait ,gear, licenses and regos in the thousands or hundreds of thousandsof dollars,most of these recreational fisherman work 5 days a week and only get 3 or 5 weeks holidays per year.There are 52 Saturdays,and 52 Sundays in the year,of which we have inclement weather that stops us from giong out fishing inboats plus the odd family or personal weekend we do not fish ,so I reckon on average we fet out boating about 26 Saturdays and Sundays If we are lucky,and out of those days how many allow us to go out wide after the better table fish,Most of us ,have boats that can only fish 3-5 people and only a small proportion of these will ever catch any were near the limit of fish. The cray boats that are allowed to continue bottom fishing as they supplied proof of history in catching bottom fish go out most days during the cray season,and are not restricted as much by weather,they also have a far more sophisticated electronics that the vast majority of recreationals,Im sure many of you have heard stories of the pro cray fisherman bringing in heaps of bottom fish,They claim their fuel back as a tax deduction also the costs of running servicing thier boats,simply put I do not think they should be allowed to have their fingers in the two pies,CRAYS and Bottom fish one or the other,Mr Minister of fisheries?as for the charter industrie,they once again are seeking out the bottom spiceis of sought after fish, on most charters they can have 15 to 20 people and once more go out when many small boats are not able too,you have some people not experienced in fishing that will reef in undersized fish which is stuffed and will not survive particularly after it has been droped on the deck in the sun,I have yet to see a dhu fish or snapper with sun glasses,at least most,recreationals fisherman do not abuse the juvinile bottom fish,and try thier very best to allow them the best chance at return survival, While on this matter,the fisheries claim that very few Dhu fish they put bach survived? how did they do this (scientific) reasherch,if as I have been told and believe,they caught the fish in traps,then returned the fish in traps,then pulled the fish up again,(Still in the traps) to see how they went,I believe that if I or most people were put through this proccess of being pulled to the surface, checked over,possibly handeled,tagged,put back down and then days or weeks longer pulled up ,we would not be in very good condition either? I have personaly seen a once juvinile Dhu fish caught over a period of about 3 years grow to size,we know it was the same fish as there was a distintive injury on it that had healed,but the defference is ,if was handeled correctly and put back using the weighted methode of release,.Look people,I do not think any thing will be done by the minister or fisheries to give a more equeal deal to us recreational,I and a couple of my friends think there is to much money thrown around in certain areas my thoughts not this sites or any of its members,lastly,I believe in back limits,size limits and even a closed season,but for all,not just the ordinary recreational person,after all,if the fish is breeding and is caught full of eggs ,and removed from the eco system ,wether it is an amature,charter paying fisherman,or professional cray fisherman,it is gone,by all means have a ,ban,closed or moratoriume for the good of the fish stocks,but have it for all,not allow the selfe interest groups only to continue and make the rest of us pay for it,if you,do then I say that this is corruption,Jersey
Blackbetty-50
Posts: 52
Date Joined: 17/08/07
Brain Less and Unfair
I wonder if every boat owner in WA put in for compensation for being unfairly treated by these new rules,as recreational fishers we don't get any tax relief on boat repairs, fuel, interest on boat loans and GST off any new fishing gear we need to operate our boats, like the pros and charter boys or would the fisheries broker a deal for us to fish alternate days with the pros and charter operators, so every third day we could have a fish for these so called V5 as it appears the 5 species are not that vulnerable if the pros have unlimited access during the spawning season and now it looks as if the charter boats are going to do the same. There was not enough thought put into the whole idea of closed seasons in the first place.
STAAL LOVER
Posts: 445
Date Joined: 13/05/08
PRO'S
As I have said in past posts. It was only last year I believe that Cray boats were banned from FISHING !!! TerryF had posted up the figures. 1260ish PRO boats fishing for the V5 down to 160ish. Now we are talking V5 in the hundreds of tons(TerryF may have some figures) staying in the system!!!!! WHY would you not let this run for say the time it takes most V5 to become mature before bashing on the ban!!!! I would say that the V5 after 3 years or so would not look so V anymore!!!
ALWAYS TIME FOR FISHIN'
TerryF
Posts: 370
Date Joined: 11/08/05
Charter and Commercial fishing
Lots has been said and posted before.
For these possible charter proposals, did people miss:-
That means once they have caught the set quota, they should STOP fishing.
Once they have fished for a certain number of days, they should STOP fishing.
And for Commercial demersal fisheries management, see lots of info in http://fishwrecked.com/node/14741
The devil is in the details, and they are complicated.
Opinions which aren't based on the facts are often just wasting time saying "they SHOULD NOT do that" when it's not being done, or "they SHOULD do that" when it is already actually being done.
The decision on who will form the Government could/will also affect some of this. Watch these spaces.
TerryF
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Beavering away in the background.......
Maverick
Posts: 1137
Date Joined: 06/06/06
Come on
Some of these guys have 1/2 a mil or more invested in a boat and all of a sudden they say you can't fish for 4 months , I bet none of you's can go 4 months with out pay.
They are the only one's putting info into the system with compulsory log books etc.
With the ban it's the rec fishers going deep that will impact on their fishing as I bet most recs will go and check out a charter boat just to see what their doing way out there( unless they have a $3000 sounder on board).
I'm not having a go at ANYONE , I can just see it from both sides of the fence , I too have a boat , nice little 18 footer and the bans will affect me just as much as the rest of the rec community
PLEASE don't have a go at me, it won't bother me in the slightest but will get this important thread shut down,
End of brain fart.........................
_________________________________________________________________
______
OFW Agent 88
roberta
Posts: 640
Date Joined: 08/07/08
Hi Maverick
I think whats getting up people's noses is the fact that the proposal is for Charter Boat Operators. The professional fisherman is not in the V5 ban from our understanding, so their income is safe. Hubbie's been going deep for 30 years, charter boat comes and pings him as they go past, next time he goes out charter boats everywhere. You do the right thing and this gets thrown at you, amatuers can't fish in the ban time but we'll let (proposal) Charter operators on selected days. I think its opened a can of worms, the old saying us against them mentality.
SPEWIE LEWIE
diji
Posts: 472
Date Joined: 31/03/07
Absolute B%#$#IT
There's more than 1 way to manage the total catches of fish.
Get a fisheries department which does'nt work for the PRO"S
The most important thing is to manage, limit and control the number of fish killed.??????????????????????????????
Correct close it for everybody one month at a time for as long as it takes
Limited fishing days for everybody would mean that they can't fish on some days when others can (PRO'S).
It's swings and roundabouts only for the PRO'S if all the sums WHERE done properly and openly in the first place years ago we wouldnt be in this situation now ?????
Crayfish a well managed fisheries soon bag limit for recs 4 after the pro's have 4 houses each at every port on the coast. Well manage
Crab fisherie another well managed project recs fish for them 3 months a year and were still paying for the PRO slaughter
Salmo
Posts: 725
Date Joined: 15/08/05
Economic
I hve said it before…..if you look at the figures for commercial demersal fisheries it doesn’t add up. The return per kilo the pro’s get is not economically sustainable. Like fruit and vegies, milk, red meat and other perishables the retailers and supermarkets make the biggest profit- fishermen and farmers get very little.
500 tonnes of fish for the whole WC at say $6.00kilo = 3 million dollars...split that between 40 boats......
Compare that with what social and economic benefits recreational angling offers……
luke
Posts: 3163
Date Joined: 14/08/06
couldnt have said it better
couldnt have said it better salmo!!! dont think mr ford thinks that way though :(
seems to be a case of double standards going on, and making the rift between the rec fisho's and the professional fisho's even wider
hey jersey, did you hand in a submission paper?? and those figures you qouted, the 1300 rec submissions, and the 20 000 pro submissions, where can we acess that info?? seems a bit far fetched to me.......
roberta
Posts: 640
Date Joined: 08/07/08
Fisheries
read the Managing the Recreational Catch of Demersal Scalefish on the West Coast, Fisheries Management Paper No 225, September 2007. Interesting reading, it seems the amateurs catch (per tonne) more than the professional fisherman (per tonne) Its got us wondering where did these figures come from, our voluntarily supplied to fisheries volunteers etc?
SPEWIE LEWIE
luke
Posts: 3163
Date Joined: 14/08/06
whilst that may be tru
whilst that may be tru roberta, what salmo is saying is, look how many rec boats those figures come from, compared to pro boats.... i think it would be a far safer bet to say the rec industry is worth many many times more that the commercial fishery
.... those figures came from creel study surveys, how current those surveys were is of some debate
the whole thing with the fisheries study, was it indicated that the total catch limit had to be halved to remain sustainable...so why didnt they just halve the bag limits?? ( species included??). they did on some species( pink snapper), but not on others ( like dhufish for example...).... weird!
but the most annoying thing from this decision from mr ford, is that the rec fisho's get a closure, where no taking of the v5 is allowed, yet the pro fisho's are allowed to continue fishing through that very same period... seems like double standars to me, after all, the closures have been put in place to supposidly protect the fish during spawning time, yet the pro's can go out daily, with far more supperior technology and gear, and bash these spawning schools as much as they like!!! yeh, that protects the spawning schools!!!!! NOT!!!!
now we get told the charters can also go out and bash the same schools, ( yes terry, it may be for a complete catch limit/ days fished, but they are still allowed)
the main problem is it isnt equal terms across the board. i personally dont like the idea of complete closure times, there was many different options put forward to the minister, but they seem to have fallen on deaf ears ( rolleyes emoticon here...), but if we have to have them, it should be for all... not just rec fisho's.
that is the problem imo!!! double standards....got to wonder if there is backhanders going on somewhere..or maybe we will do this if you vote us type stuff...
one thing for sure, no more fish frames for research from me... not when we try to do the right thing and get stung like this.... how many frames do the commercial guys give.... bugger all i bet, as they sell the fish whole.....yet we give the frames for research, and we get the sting...
stick it where it fits guys....
roberta
Posts: 640
Date Joined: 08/07/08
Yes luke I agree
In what you say and agree, just heard on the news Nationals have gone to the Liberals.
Hope commen sense provails for all.
SPEWIE LEWIE
luke
Posts: 3163
Date Joined: 14/08/06
about time too, and yes,
about time too, and yes, lets hope common sense does prevail.... dont think things will change dramatically, just tweaked a little... lets hope things at least become equal
Maverick
Posts: 1137
Date Joined: 06/06/06
figures
ALL the charter boat figures goes in as REC caught fish not commercial caught fish.
________________________________________________________________________
OFW Agent 88
luke
Posts: 3163
Date Joined: 14/08/06
thats a joke, should be in
thats a joke, should be in there own class, as the charter is the one making the money from the recs ( read commercial gain).....therefore the charter caught the fish
roberta
Posts: 640
Date Joined: 08/07/08
Yes Luke
It is a joke, charter we class as pro's so their catch should go under the professional fishermen, as the charter boats have professional license to fish, at the moment they are under our bag limit as amatuers Bob's not sure on that one, some one should be able to tell us.
SPEWIE LEWIE
Carolyn
Posts: 145
Date Joined: 13/10/07
Hooks out of water
Luke halving bag limits not the answer/ hooks out of water is.
GOATRUTAR
Posts: 3655
Date Joined: 12/04/07
That is the type of response
That is the type of response I would expect from a VFLO.
I'm suprised to read Mav's point about the charter operators catch going on to the rec's "supposed" catch quota.
Utter bullshit and once again we will be bent over!
By the time Oct 15 gets here we will be the only ones banned!
IF IT SMELLS LIKE FISH IT MUST BE GOOD FOR YOU!
luke
Posts: 3163
Date Joined: 14/08/06
no., halving the caught
no., halving the caught limit is the problem carolyn
no major problem with use having to have a closure... but it should be across the board...
geez, your comment sounds like a greeny..... was going to ask why your on a fishing site, but then read into what you were actually saying ( i hope..)
Adam Gallash
Posts: 7811
Date Joined: 29/11/05
No greenie
Well I run this site and agree with what she says. The way to reduce fishing pressure is reduce the amount of fisherman or hooks in the water. If bag limits are halved, it won't make a hell of a lot of difference because its not that often that people get their bags of dhuies these days anyway. Effectively a similar amount of fish will be getting removed and not being replentished.
luke
Posts: 3163
Date Joined: 14/08/06
i know you run the site
i know you run the site adam.... , what are you saying??? are we not allowed to say our views ?
if you re-read my post adam, you will see, i am saying halving the caught limit of fish.... nothing about bag limits...but halving the amount caught
i also said i didnt have a major problem with the closure...but it should be across the board...something you seemed to have missed in my post but noticed much further down in diji's post
does the word greeny get backs up or something??
GOATRUTAR
Posts: 3655
Date Joined: 12/04/07
I totally agree with Luke
I totally agree with Luke Adam, the way it reads is that your opinion is all that matters!
JMO and it is the way I read it!
i know it isn't the way you operate but it is the way it comes across!
Please remember this is not just about the dhufish as the other species are just as important!
I have no-doubt that the majority of anglers would have welcomed a ban on dhuies and still been able to target the other 4 species!But we all know that the reason the other 4 species were thrown in was to put us off launching the boat at all and possibly catching dhufish as by-catch!
F IT SMELLS LIKE FISH IT MUST BE GOOD FOR YOU!
Adam Gallash
Posts: 7811
Date Joined: 29/11/05
Hiya
Sorry, let me clarify, I was defending Carolyn's statement and that she has as much right to speak her opinion without being labelled a greenie or such...
No offence intended to you Luke and I didn't mean for my statement to sound like mines is the be all and end all, which after reading again seems to come accross like that.
luke
Posts: 3163
Date Joined: 14/08/06
cool.... appreciate the feed
cool.... appreciate the feed back adam
Maverick
Posts: 1137
Date Joined: 06/06/06
So
If a taxi takes you to a nightclub they should have a liquor lic???? catch a bus to work and they should get your pay for the day ?? after all they did get you there.
Charters only take people out there , the REC angler has to catch it .
the boat doesn't get any fish and they have to keep to rec bag limits and sizes, AND keep DETAILED records.
IF the crew fish they have to abide by rec laws just like everyone else , some of the rec boats have the same gear on board re sounders and plotters and most rec boats have better gear ie braided lines etc .
I can't see them as commercial fishers if they have to go by all the rec laws.
If you want to class them as pro's then they shouldn't have any bag limits and should be able to sell their catch.
________________________________________________________________________
OFW Agent 88
luke
Posts: 3163
Date Joined: 14/08/06
comon mav, charters make a
comon mav, charters make a living by taking people out to catch fish...fact. charters dont survive if they dont deliver the above service. their business, involves takeing people out, charging them around $200 a head, to go and catch fish , that is exploiting a public commodity, for personal gain.... to be classed as a standard rec fisho, is a absolute joke, and deep down you know it is!
if they are classed as a rec fisho, why then are they being given "special exemptions" to still take fisho's out to target the v5 when the rest of us cant??? why then are they being given special exemptions on boat limits of fish, differing from the rest of the "rec anglers"?? why do they have to complete log books and records???
because they run a business that takes people fishing. they should be under their own limits....fullstop. to say they are rec catches is a farce, and anybody with half a brain would be able to see it and agree. to say they are rec boats...pfftt.... maybe i should fill a log book, keep records, and start charging $200 a head as well....
as for saying this
If you want to class them as pro's then they shouldn't have any bag limits and should be able to sell their catch.
mate, i hate to tell ya, but that is pretty much what they do by charging such high prices in the first place...
PLEASE dont make me laugh
Dreamweaver
Posts: 4561
Date Joined: 01/12/07
Hmmmm
I can't (hopefully) see this thread dying soon
, nor should it.
Mav, I CAN see where you are coming from.
IMO, no; Charter boats should be in a class by themselves, they are, if you like, a hybrid between RECs and PROs. To me, debating whether they are either one or the other won't go anywhere. Yes, the skippers and (most) deckies make money - so that makes it a commercial consideration. But, they take REC fishers onboard and submit their catches to DoF through what I understand is a compulsory requirement.
So; how about we set asside the debate on whether they are PROs or RECs and agree their just a third (like I said) Hybrid.
I can accept that, to completely curtail their operations for a sustained time, especially in a 'peak season period' would (could) cause financial hardship.
LOL, that, I think is a bit of a hybrid situation (given the 'concession' goes through), yes, everyone on deck that's fishing have to abide by REC laws (in some cases one could say more stringently), but they have that concession - so they don't have to abide by the WCB V5 take. More good reason IMO to look at them as 'hybrid'.
That all said, I can still understand that to have diffeent days where FISHING CHARTERS can and can't fish and RECS can and can't fish isn't going to go down well.
So, what's an alternative? Here's two:
1) Have FISHING CHARTERS and RECS (not)allowed to go on the same day and extend the WCB V5 no take period.
2) Both FISHING CHARTERS and RECS must observe the proposed no take period and the FISHING CHARTER companies are fincially compensated.
How's that sound?
Colin Molloy
(Colin 2 - Co-founding member of the prestigious Colin Club)
luke
Posts: 3163
Date Joined: 14/08/06
yep, you have said pretty
yep, you have said pretty much the same as myself, all be it in a more diplomatic way...lol
pretty obvious the system needs a good shake up, with stupid things like this happening....
Maverick
Posts: 1137
Date Joined: 06/06/06
SORRY
I will take my half a brain and go.
________________________________________________________________________
OFW Agent 88
luke
Posts: 3163
Date Joined: 14/08/06
if thats because of my
if thats because of my comment
quote
"because they run a business that takes people fishing. they should be under their own limits....fullstop. to say they are rec catches is a farce, and anybody with half a brain would be able to see it and agree."
mav, wasnt directed towards you buddy...just stating the bloody obvious flaw in out far from perfect system...
you seems to have a fair bit to say over charter stuff.... maybe you should let al make his own comments??
Dreamweaver
Posts: 4561
Date Joined: 01/12/07
I don't see why Mav
Like I said, I can see your point...
Colin Molloy
(Colin 2 - Co-founding member of the prestigious Colin Club)
roberta
Posts: 640
Date Joined: 08/07/08
Maverik
we all have our opinions on this doesn't mean your opinion is half a brain, Luke and dreamweaver, excellent, yes there should be something between reo'c & pro's, dreamweaver love your hybrid, something has to be done, to be fair to everybody, a lot of these charter boats also own crayboats up and down the coast, so income is secure.
SPEWIE LEWIE
Maverick
Posts: 1137
Date Joined: 06/06/06
SORRY
I havn't seen Al for over 4 months , maybe you could ring him for me and get his comments.
If you ever met him you would know I wouldn't be speaking for him.
Roberta , Luke in reply to me said anybody with half a brain will agree , I wasn't agreeing so I take it as a reference to me.
OFW Agent 88
jersey
Posts: 93
Date Joined: 12/06/08
Some restored faith
Well,when I put the headfing Apathy amungst recfishermen I wanted to see some comments and open dialog ,great I got it,but I still say wake up fellow recreational fishermen,or start selloing your gear,as the only way you may get a fish is by paying for a spot on a charter boat,this in turn will stimulate more dollars for the commercial (by definition Professional ) charter operators,but,it may cost a few boat service place to close down,also the odd tackel shop,and other related organisations.As I said,once a fish,Dhu black ars or whatever is taken from the eco system,it is gone,the breeding time for Dhus is from my limited knowledge from around December, January,Febuary? closing the season to all pressure fishing would make sence but this is when the recreational will not be able to fish V5s but the questionable Pros are? and ,dont we get some fairly strong winds in these months? making it somewhat difficult for the smaller boats to safely go out any distance around Perth waters at least,but not a 35-45 footer with 12-20 paying recreational (PAYING) fishermen on board nor the pro cray fishermen that are still able to catch fin fish(v5) whilst looking for crays,yes they can claim the fuel for this as they are cray fishing?
mavereke asked were I got the numbers from,Firstly,yes,I and two other peo[ple I know sent in submissions (for all the good that did) as for the 1300 and 20000 a person who has a boating bussiness in the northern suburbs told me,not out of spit for the pros or they way the minister went but in talking and why we the rec fishermen can only blame themselves,he also told me that the wife and co owner of one of Perths most widly known tackle outlets had tried to impress their customers the importance of putting in their submissions,but I will bet anyone a blowie against a skippy,the commercial aspects of this debate were not as tardy,Quite frankly,I do not give a tinkers toss over the restrictions,only that one part of the community has been singeld out by questionable information,to carry the brunt of exclussions that in the end will not help the v5 stokes due to other parties not having to abide by the same rules.
Maverick
Posts: 1137
Date Joined: 06/06/06
WHO
I didn't ask you for anything.
I get my info from reputable sources not over the counter gossip.
And because I back the charters to operate you think I have a vested interest ??? well I don't , havn't been out on a charter since Feb, I don't beleive anybody should be banned for 4 months until they see what this pro exclusion zone around Perth does and there is good DATA on why this ban is needed.
________________________________________________________________________
OFW Agent 88
Dreamweaver
Posts: 4561
Date Joined: 01/12/07
Lynch pin point
...and therein lies ( to lay down or not tell the truth) the lynch pin point.
Yup! Totally agree with you Mav! Whether you talk about the constraints (inadequacies) of the 2005 creel survey, or the emotionally promulgated murdoch study on dhufish(Stateline episode), to me (and it would seem many others) the pivotal point is adequate (therefore incontestable) data. Which we are somewhat bereft of.
Nope! I have far too much respect for you to make that conclusion, and I think many here feel the same way. What I DO think you have is a very valuable and important perspective to contribute.
Sure. It IS an emotional issue. But; if we talk ABOUT our feelings, as opposed to talking WITH them, then there is a chance to reach agreement.
Colin Molloy
(Colin 2 - Co-founding member of the prestigious Colin Club)
HuggyB
Posts: 129
Date Joined: 03/08/08
I agree with the ban Mav
But if the charter operators want to work under REC rules, then its one in, all in. You cant flip flop your position to suit you whenever you feel.
If you start making special exemptions here and there then the rules are a joke. Theoretically these charter boats with 20 or so people aboard can take anywhere up to 140 odd Cat 1 fish and stay within limits. And they are less restricted by weather than your average trailerboat fisherman, and they are operating all week were the average Joe fishes on weekends and the odd mid week day if they are lucky and the weather is kind.
I feel for the charter operators, but at the end of the day the bans are in place to preserve future stocks, if they are still allowed to fish it willy nilly then what kind of conservation is that? In the end they are cutting there nose to spite their face. You better believe they will be the first to spit chips when stocks are depleted and fishing is banned altogether. They will just need to adapt and find other types of fishing to engage in.
roberta
Posts: 640
Date Joined: 08/07/08
Huggybug
excellent comment.
SPEWIE LEWIE
Maverick
Posts: 1137
Date Joined: 06/06/06
What the ???
I don't care if you agree or not , I was putting my position forward , Thoretically , me and 4 mates can kill the pig everyday of the week but we don't and I have NEVER seen someone bag out on cat1 fish in the greater metro area.
9 out of 10 people that post on here about a charter say they got bugger all or just one good fish , how many times have the regulars posted up pics of 2 big Dhuies each , on a regular basis.
I have never fliped or floped on my position , I have allways said I don't agree with the ban , show me where I have agreed with it, don't put words in my mouth.
How about if you are so pasionate , do something , petition the Govt and get the pro's stopped as well or whatever you think should be done .
how about this then, lets wait and see what the new govt is going to do.
Don't attack me for having a different opinion, I havn't attacked anyone for having their opinion.
PLEASE go and read my first post again.
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OFW Agent 88
HuggyB
Posts: 129
Date Joined: 03/08/08
Mav
Settle down, read my post again and try comprehending it.
Maverick
Posts: 1137
Date Joined: 06/06/06
WHY
WHY single me out for your rant , Like I said , who cares besides you and roberta.
I NEVER singled anyone out until they singled me out, seems that if my read MY opinion is different to yours or who ever they have to let me know, why not PM me if you disagree with me , put your opinion up and thats it , I don't care if you agree with me or not.
NOW we see why so many sites are getting less and less traffic , go against the flow and get hammered.
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OFW Agent 88
greeny
Posts: 58
Date Joined: 17/01/08
Don't shoot the messenger !!!!!!
Don't shoot the messenger!!!!!!
But this is great reading.....lol....
luke
Posts: 3163
Date Joined: 14/08/06
jersey, i asked where you
jersey, i asked where you got the figures...not mav....and glad to hear you put your submissions in :)... beleive me, i tried to get as many people as possible to submit their views too, and it disappoints me to hear these figures ...thats all..
mav, i have met al, and yes, i know he would speak his own mind....and i accept you dont have a vested interest in charters.........................just curious as to why you seem to defend the charter groups more than others...????
as for this gem
and i quote you
"Roberta , Luke in reply to me said anybody with half a brain will agree , I wasn't agreeing so I take it as a reference to me."
ah well, thats the way it is then.... you are entitled to your opinion, as am i...
i am glad to see you agree, the closures are draconian, and certainly need to be addressed with a bit more common sense, and actual figures
i guess it seems to me, that the supposed figures used by the gov, would include a large number of figures from charter boats... and this simply is not acceptable. how you can continue to suggest that a charter boats catch is a rec catch baffles me. i can accept that at this time, that is what they fall under, but as i said after your initial responce about the catches falling under rec catches, it IS a joke, and SHOULD fall under its own category.... by doing this, then there woul be less outcry about them being allowed to fish for the v5, whilst the rest of the non paying boat recs ( who pay far more than a indivual going on a charter, by buying a boat, servicing a boat etc etc) are told we cant catch the very same fish....
and lastly, i quote you once again...
How about if you are so pasionate , do something , petition the Govt and get the pro's stopped as well or whatever you think should be done .
well mav, as i am sure you are aware, i did a fair bit of this when the proposals came out, and submissions were asked for.... we all know how far that got us.........
anyway, mav, i am not trying to upset you, i am speaking my thoughts on the matter, and it would seem, that others agree, that it is unaccpetable to have charters being listed in with rec fisho's...
end of rant
Blackbetty-50
Posts: 52
Date Joined: 17/08/07
One out all out ! ! ! !
After the brain washing job from our illustrious Mr Jon Ford and the fisheries about the diminishing number of V5 fish stocks in the West Coast bio region, why is it alright now after a little of the smoke has cleared and the Recreational fisher people would have had time to get over the shock of it to start changing the gaol posts.
After a 10 week wait I finally received a reply this week to a letter I sent to Mr Ford with the concerns of quite a few local Recreational fishers from the Bunbury area. There was no mention of any deals being done with the charter operators in this reply, the first anyone new about this was in Saturdays paper. The only things mentioned at length was the closure to Commercial line and net fishing in the Metropolitan area between Lancelin and Mandurah, which is completely stupid as the Pros fishing this area will only either move north of Lancelin or south of Mandurah and with the Pros already fishing these areas will place a even heavier burden on these 5 species. Now if this other deal being brokered with the charter people goes through that will mean even more pressure during the Breeding period. This does not make sense at all. I don't mind a few rules, but only if they make sense and actually cure the problem for every thing and every one.
Maverick
Posts: 1137
Date Joined: 06/06/06
The quote
That was aimed at Huggy not you Luke
.
I recon EVERYONE should be MADE to fill in a log book EVERY time they go fishing.
Then we all will know what is being taken out of the water , then we will have CREDITABLE data to work with.
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OFW Agent 88
Dreamweaver
Posts: 4561
Date Joined: 01/12/07
Mav
Something that was in my 225 response. I wish a lot more had responded. Would it change the outcome? I don't know.
But there were a LOT that were against compulsory log books. (You know the arguements).
Colin Molloy
(Colin 2 - Co-founding member of the prestigious Colin Club)
luke
Posts: 3163
Date Joined: 14/08/06
cool...and yes, i
cool...and yes, i agree...compulsory log books are the only aswer for actual figures...
HuggyB
Posts: 129
Date Joined: 03/08/08
Log books are a great idea
but like anything related to fisheries - who is going to police it?? They dont have the resources now and they wont be given the resources anytime soon.
roberta
Posts: 640
Date Joined: 08/07/08
Yes huggb
log books are a good idea, but as you say who is going to police it, in Leeman the only time you see fisheries or marine and harbours is peak time, start up of cray season, checking your pots (& I might add not where you have put them) Xmas and Easter, the rest of the time its higgilie piggilie. Yes doesn't matter which government of the day they won't increase fisheries officers.
SPEWIE LEWIE
Maverick
Posts: 1137
Date Joined: 06/06/06
Police
Why should anyone police it , shouldn't we as a whole want to do it .
I think they need to do some serious research before anything else happens, if this means log books then so be it then go from there you can't make reasonable decisions on what some person thinks is happening.
the 10% who kills the pig every week will say there is plenty of fish and the other 90% will say $hit whats happening.
One last point , you are saying that charters are comercial and therefore pro's , so if pro's don't have to stop fishing in the ban they why should they put up with a ban at all, you should be happy that they are banning them for at least some of the period of the ban .
NAHHH that can't make sence hey.
PS , I will stop stirring the pot now
it was a dull day until this thread came up , I'm just getting into another debate over in the UK on j hook's V's circles so I will go for now
.
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OFW Agent 88
luke
Posts: 3163
Date Joined: 14/08/06
mav, ...well it does but
mav, ...well it does but doesnt...
going by your logic in the above post, they should also be not allowed to fish in the pro banned area from madurah to lano.....
what i have been saying is simply that the charter catches shouldnt go towards the rec fishing quota... but that it should have its own section, as they are "inbetween" the 2....both pro and rec...isnt and never was a anti charter bash session... just stating a view was all
end of story....
HuggyB
Posts: 129
Date Joined: 03/08/08
Of course it has to be policed
Not everyone is a passionate angler like many of us here. You think the average "catch my bag limit rape and pillage" fisho is going to fill out a log book? People are loathe to go to the volunteer fisheries abalone weigh stations for research purposes. Left to their own devices I doubt many would bother.
Its like saying "the speed limits are posted there, we shouldn't need to police it because you'll all as a whole want to obey the limits". Great in theory, not in practice.
And as for you pro comment (I assume its directed at me) I have no idea what you are on about. I never mentioned anything about pros.
Maverick
Posts: 1137
Date Joined: 06/06/06
No
the "WHAT THE" post was for you
.
got a link for where I flipped flopped to what I'm saying here.
Try telling a metro angler he has to travell to Man or Lano to charter fish , plus most charters are out in 100m plus away from rec boats and their fish anyway.
I havn't got an answer for this ,
I'm just saying yes someone makes money out of taking people out to fish , they have been for a long time and made it their living now they want them to stop in the middle of their busy season ( as well as me as a rec boat angler) with NO DEFINITE proof this will help or not( of course it will help but by how much , and won't the pro exclusion zone be helping right now for the V5), Charter boats are just taxi's to take average Joe Blow out fishing , he keeps what he catches .
Cutting down trees causes salinity and soil erosion maybe we should stop broad acre farming and put it all back to bush, where will you get your loaf of bread from ??? and tell all the farmers to walk off their land.
PS I don't know what I'm saying half the time, now circles or J hooks????????????
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OFW Agent 88
HuggyB
Posts: 129
Date Joined: 03/08/08
circles
everytime.
or for shits and giggles, the opposite of what the majority are recommending.
Maverick
Posts: 1137
Date Joined: 06/06/06
Well it did
Well it did brighten what ws a dull day. and then I found out that if you get your post edited it means it never happened and all is well in the universe.
seems like no one keeps to their word
.
So far it's about 70% for j hooks with crushed barbs but I'm pushing the circles with some help from some US sources, then I did a barrel roll and hopefully got some africans involved.
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OFW Agent 88
diji
Posts: 472
Date Joined: 31/03/07
WTF??????
IF i cant fish why the F#%k should someone who does'nt own a boat be able too,and pay for someone else's new home.
Dont bullshit and say these people are struggling these boats are owned by investers and just skippered out.
Have the ban we need,but ban everyone.
Daisy
Posts: 226
Date Joined: 24/01/08
Yup, What he
Yup, What he said.
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Happiness is fishy fingers with a stiff rod in my hand
roberta
Posts: 640
Date Joined: 08/07/08
totally
agree diiji, one out all out, like crayboats, they are mostly owned by investors as well or families we know have 3 (father & two sons).
SPEWIE LEWIE
synthos
Posts: 129
Date Joined: 23/06/07
Agree
This is an interesting if long thread, but I also agree with the simple view, if its a bann because we place to much pressure on the resources during breeding season then it should be a ban for all. Charters should not be excluded simple as that.
Otherwise it seems to be saying the fish resources are not as bad as they are telling us and fishing pressure does not really need to be reduced, its not just the charters that will suffer from the ban other industries will also suffer were are there exemptions ?If charters are allowed to fish then we simply feed into their pockets and coming to think of it if charters are called recreational is it not anti competitive/discrimination against us since we all are recreational ?
TerryF
Posts: 370
Date Joined: 11/08/05
The new Liberal/National
The new Liberal/National government might mean a new approach. But the new government will have lots of important and urgent things to do. It will need a lot of work to get recreational fishing into that list.
Now you need Recfishwest to look after your recreational fishing interests. Who else has the time, the knowledge, the professional approach, the realistic alternatives, the willingness and the contacts?
YOU can support this important work of Recfishwest by becoming a member.
You can join for just $20 or $10 for over 65/under 18, $40 for a family of 4 - by post, by phone 9246 3366, fax 9246 5955, by email , in person, or fill in a website form see http://www.recfishwest.org.au/MembershipDet.htm
See the Liberal election policy http://www.wa.liberal.org.au/index.php?option=com_docman&task=doc_download&gid=49&Itemid=141
Note:- ONLY promises a review "with a view to relaxing the bans." Does NOT promise REMOVING the bans. And see the commitment to "balance" and need for "fish stocks are well managed into the future"
Recfishwest Election Policy, on behalf of the recreational fishing community of Western Australia 2008 http://www.recfishwest.org.au/ElectionPolicy2008.htm covers lots of very important points for recreational fishing.
Western Australian (commercial) Fishing Industry Council's policies to support professional/commercial fishing are in http://www.wafic.com.au/images/wafic---aihah.pdf
TerryF
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Beavering away in the background.......
Recfishwest - looking after YOUR recreational fishing future. http://www.recfishwest.org.au/
Daisy
Posts: 226
Date Joined: 24/01/08
Yay, the old coalition
Yay, the old coalition again, they'll look after us.
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Happiness is fishy fingers with a stiff rod in my hand