Dropper Rigs - Loops or 3 way swivels?
Submitted by Stevef on Wed, 2008-03-05 12:47.
Hi,
I am new to the site, but have been looking at the pictures posted up and following the discussions for a while now.
I have noticed in a number of the paternoster rigs in the pictures the rigs are made up with 3 way swivels with fairly long droppers coming off them. I have been using dropper loops using the "twisted dropper loop" method which makes the loop stand out proud from the main line. I find the twisted loops results in far less line twist and tangles, however I would trade this for more fish if the long dropper off a swivel is more effective.
Would be interested in some views on the pros and cons of each style.
Cheers
Steve
tailor marc
Posts: 745
Date Joined: 27/09/06
I used to use 3 ways but got
I used to use 3 ways but got sick of tangles.
I found this site.......
http://www.animatedknots.com/indexfishing.php?LogoImage=LogoGrog.jpg&Website=www.animatedknots.com
Click on the dropper loop, iv never looked back :)
Stevef
Posts: 137
Date Joined: 27/02/08
Yep, I have got the twisted
Yep, I have got the twisted dropper loops sorted and they relieve all the tangle problems, especially with a plastic squid over the hook. Just wondering if people find they get more fish with the longer droppers coming off the swivel
mako magic
Posts: 3282
Date Joined: 03/08/05
i been using 3 way swivels
i been using 3 way swivels and havent had too much issues with tangles, to be honest.
Maverick
Posts: 1137
Date Joined: 06/06/06
No problems
I don't fish anymore so don't get any tangles .
Stevef
Posts: 137
Date Joined: 27/02/08
easy fixed
easy fixed
vans
Posts: 119
Date Joined: 07/02/08
i use a long dropper (50cm)
i use a long dropper (50cm) with a 3way swivel paternooster rig with the sinker hanging around 2 inches below the gangs. I find the slightly longer rig allows the bait to float around a bit more freely after the star sinker has settled in.
Stevef
Posts: 137
Date Joined: 27/02/08
Hi Vans, Thats the effect
Hi Vans,
Thats the effect that I thought that the longer droppers might have. If you have a look at the pics posted by Goatrutar you will see that he seems to use long leads, no doubt he is also fishing over some good ground as well.
My thoughts are that while the small dropper loops look nice and neat to us, it might look bloody awful to any fish thinking about taking a bite of the bait.
Steve
Dean
Posts: 1995
Date Joined: 23/02/07
Think about how big a
Think about how big a dhufishes mouth is and they also like to suck in the bait etc. So I use a Loop around 12-15 inches, and always run 3 hooks. Shown to me by ryan.
Stevef
Posts: 137
Date Joined: 27/02/08
Hi Dean, You might be
Hi Dean,
You might be onto something there. My loops are generally about half of what you describe. Maybe the short loops result in greater resistance to the fish and therefore more half hearted bites.
I will give the longer dropper loops a shot.
Three Lions
Posts: 175
Date Joined: 15/08/07
Droppers
Steve the best part about using 3-ways is changing the the droppers if they get a bit of damage. You can also use a much heavier main section and lighter droppers eg 120lb with 80/100lb droppers and 60lb sinker section. Then if you get snagged you will only lose one dropper or your sinker. I have never had trouble with line twist using 3-ways.
dpost80
Posts: 327
Date Joined: 01/08/07
Bait presentation
G'day fella's,
This is an interesting topic, and one that I think is rather subjective...
The most important thing for me when rigging and baiting, is bait presentation. I've always thought that the less metal you send down there (i.e. swivels) the better off you are. After all, your bait is imitating a piece (or whole) of dead fish/squid/occy etc that has been smashed up by some predator.... so I try to keep it as simple as possible and just use a standard twisted paternoster (the same one as Tailor Marc's site shows).
If anyone thinks I'm barking up the wrong tree please tell me, I'm keen to improve... and am happy to try and adopt any new techniques if it equals more/better fish....
Cheers,
Damian
Adam Gallash
Posts: 7815
Date Joined: 29/11/05
three ways
I must say I like the use of three way swivels for the exact reason Three Lions has posted. Varying leader strengths, bust off sinkers but not the whole rig, ability to change leaders without losing whole rig, ability to change lengths of leaders to give fish a better chance to suck down the bait rather than initially striking once the bite is felt. If the current is starting to move too strong and the longer leaders are getting tangled then I will move back to a standard paternoster because they are easy to tie and don't swing in the current as much.
Guess it comes down to adapting to the situation, hey Mr Mac.
Stevef
Posts: 137
Date Joined: 27/02/08
Thanks for the tips fellas.
Thanks for the tips fellas. I will try out a lengthing in the dropper loops and see how I go.
Cheers
dpost80
Posts: 327
Date Joined: 01/08/07
ditto Steve
Ditto Steve...
I think I'm going to have to give this 3 way swivel idea a run...
What sort of knot do you guys use to tie your terminal tackle?
Do any of you guys use three droppers/hooks? .... or just the two droppers? Would this improve catch rate?
Do you think the two swivels attached to each other are better than the three way's?
I believe Mr Mac has a special snelled rig that he likes to use as well..... ?? :) do you use that on these sorts of rigs? or generally with a running sinker?
Cheers
GOATRUTAR
Posts: 3684
Date Joined: 12/04/07
Fishing 3 droppers can cause
Fishing 3 droppers can cause you grief when you hook up as far as tangles go and if you happen to get snagged its more gear you potentially loose.
On the other hand it may look better to the fish having more bait in one area.
I find that the new type of three way swivels are great.
I'm not sure of the brand but they have a large eye at one end and a small one at the other.
I run 200lb jinkai in between the swivels and 120lb to the sinker.
On the droppers i use 100 flurocarbon from swivels to snelled hooks.
IF IT SMELLS LIKE FISH IT MUST BE GOOD FOR YOU!
Ryan Thipthorp
Posts: 2122
Date Joined: 24/08/05
Droppers!
I use 120lb Jinkai plus trace line, 3 droppers (not twisted) and loop my mono trace straight to my 6/0 single hooks....hook trace length approx 30cm.
I only use 1 swivel only and that's my ball bearing swivel between my braid
and rig. I've found every knot is
a potential weak point so that's why i dont like using 3 ways and another issue i've had is other peoples braid can tangle a lot more as
rigs cross.
I've found rigs tangle on the way up and on the way down but water pressure straightens them out when drifting on the bottom but a descent ball bearing swivel will help this!
* Oceanside- Advice, Knowledge, Experience....that's our difference *
Owner/Operator "Oceanside Tackle & Marine"
364 South Street, O'Connor, Perth Ph# 9337 5682
Stevef
Posts: 137
Date Joined: 27/02/08
Thanks for the input Ryan &
Thanks for the input Ryan & Matt.
Matt, Do you reckon using flurocarbon makes a difference at the depth that we typically fish in. I had discounted flurocarbon for the deep sea stuff, but maybe something to have a look at.
Ryan, I tend to agree about the large number of knots involved with the 3 way swivels.
Anyhow all good input and I will get on with my own trials once the bloody wind stops blowing
Cheers
GOATRUTAR
Posts: 3684
Date Joined: 12/04/07
I'm fishing from 30m-90m and
I'm fishing from 30m-90m and its more the way it stays stiff and its abraisive resistant qualities.
Great for knot tieing!
When getting reds and dhuies the jinkai is just way too soft and cuts up easily propting constant rig changing where as the flurocarbon is rarely chewed through.(BUT HAS HAPPENED)
If you hook a dhuie in the throat they will rub through the jinkai with ease!
I'm a convert as I didn't rate it initially but the more I have used it the better I have liked it!
Down side is the price but hence why I only use it from swivel to hook.
A spool of 50m has lasted me 6 months.
JMO
IF IT SMELLS LIKE FISH IT MUST BE GOOD FOR YOU!
Adam Gallash
Posts: 7815
Date Joined: 29/11/05
With Goat
I'm with Goat on that one, the fluorocarbon stays much stiffer and doesn't twist around the main leader. You do get a fair bit of abrasion with it, but the line is still very strong.
Tend to agree on the dhuie rubbing through the Jinkai with ease, but we have been through that one before and we aren't going there again!
Dean
Posts: 1995
Date Joined: 23/02/07
Schneider Fishing Line is
Schneider Fishing Line is what I use on me droppers and it is very abrasion resistant and it stays quite stiff like the flurocarbon.
The difference between schneider in 110lb and 100bl blackmagic or jinkai is unbelievable for abrasion resistance.
GOATRUTAR
Posts: 3684
Date Joined: 12/04/07
Yeah I agree Dean and have
Yeah I agree Dean and have got some as well as cajun.
The jinkai is great for tieing from a double to a swivel!
Three lions got his hands on some from bali and it was great but he doesn't share it any more!
IF IT SMELLS LIKE FISH IT MUST BE GOOD FOR YOU!
Ryan Thipthorp
Posts: 2122
Date Joined: 24/08/05
never had!
I use Jinkai 120 plus and i've never had a dhu bite/wear through it!
* Oceanside- Advice, Knowledge, Experience....that's our difference *
Owner/Operator "Oceanside Tackle & Marine"
364 South Street, O'Connor, Perth Ph# 9337 5682
Dean
Posts: 1995
Date Joined: 23/02/07
Yeah me either ryan, but
Yeah me either ryan, but after catching a coupleof fish the line on the rig where the hooks join gets rough and I end up changing rigs because I don't want that to continue and wear the line down enough to eventually snap.
Have that problem with jinkai and blackmagic but not with schneider. Not sure if it would lead to a break in the line, but I dont want to find out.
Ryan Thipthorp
Posts: 2122
Date Joined: 24/08/05
yeh!
Yeh i hear what your saying Dean and i must admit i'm a rig thrower so if it gets really chaffed then i'll bin it and thats never in one day.....often i get a few trips at the least. Flurocarbon is good and so is the cheaper option ie Schneider but too stiff for me re droppers loops but great abrassion resistence and it's a hot seller.....each to their own!
* Oceanside- Advice, Knowledge, Experience....that's our difference *
Owner/Operator "Oceanside Tackle & Marine"
364 South Street, O'Connor, Perth Ph# 9337 5682
Mick B
Posts: 112
Date Joined: 20/08/06
Dropper Loops/3ways = Stone age methods.
Hi Guys,
Where have you been all these years.
Modern anglers in the 'old world' use a clear two way bead.
These simple devices have two holes running through them at 90degrees to each other, slightly offset so the mainline and the hook length cannot touch.
The mainline hole is slightly larger than the hook length hole and are made in all line sizes from 4kg on up.
They come on the moulded strip and in 20-40 depending on size and cost next to nothing.
I think they were developed and designed in Italy and have now become the standard for boat rigs.
Get some in Ryan, you will not make a fortune but they will sell.
Stevef
Posts: 137
Date Joined: 27/02/08
Hey Mick, Never heard of
Hey Mick,
Never heard of these beads before and I am trying to picture them in my mind.
Do you have a photo of them, they sound the goods and if they are cheap then even better.
Cheers Steve
Ryan Thipthorp
Posts: 2122
Date Joined: 24/08/05
!!!
Sounds like a good product for sure Mick. Stone age...hehehe......for me i'm a (KIS) "keep it simple" angler and if it aint broken....dont fix it!
* Oceanside- Advice, Knowledge, Experience....that's our difference *
Owner/Operator "Oceanside Tackle & Marine"
364 South Street, O'Connor, Perth Ph# 9337 5682
dpost80
Posts: 327
Date Joined: 01/08/07
Excellent info
Excellent info there guys... looks like I'll have to try a few new things...
BTW - what type of knots do you guys use for tieing your hooks and swivels on?... I want a strong simple one...
cheers,
damo
Ryan Thipthorp
Posts: 2122
Date Joined: 24/08/05
simple!
Uni knot!
* Oceanside- Advice, Knowledge, Experience....that's our difference *
Owner/Operator "Oceanside Tackle & Marine"
364 South Street, O'Connor, Perth Ph# 9337 5682
flangies
Posts: 358
Date Joined: 11/05/08
I researched what makes a
I researched what makes a knot strong and what makes a knot weak and i developed my own knot its kind of like the trilene mixed with blood knot i did it months ago and im never going back. only problem it does not tie easily on 50lb upwards.
___________________________________________________________________
Current beast of a reel :) Rovex Big boss 7500, its so manly i might glue hair on it
Mick B
Posts: 112
Date Joined: 20/08/06
Taken the piccy guys but
Taken the piccy guys but cannot work out how to send it to you all?
My problem is my desktop is not in English!
I only manage to get things done with my recollections of my last (Win 95) system.