home solar panels
Submitted by scotto on Wed, 2014-08-27 19:24
Lookin into a solar power system for my house... Dont know a heap about it. Basically sick of pissing $400-$500 every 3-4 months.
Anyone got one? How big is your system, and how much was it? Any companies recommended, any to avoid? I have heard your system is only as good as the inverter youre running.
Basically, I want to reduce my power bill down to nearly nothing. Not sure what size system id need for that? Not really interested in feeding the grid/getting a rebate. Got a massive north facing roof for it too, so should work well.
Goin_Fushin.
Posts: 88
Date Joined: 07/12/13
Solar
Hi Scotto.
I have a system on my roof. I got it about 4 years ago. It is only a 3kw system but it was all I could afford at the time. I got in just before the bonus return energy scheme was stopped where you get paid about double what you put back into the system. When the bonus runs out I will be looking at a bigger system to cover my costs.
The company I used was True Value Solar when it was a solar company. I believe now it is a finance company that sells solar systems on finance and it's reputation has gone down hill.
There is a huge amount of info to look at now before considering a system. 1. Size - if you don't want a bill you need to be able to run your house and generate enough credit in summer to get you through the winter months. 2. Quality - there are a lot of crap systems out there (inverters/pannels and installers). Do your homework. 3. Warranty - goes hand in hand with quality 4. Upgradeability - be careful with the costs accociated. A 3kw system with a 5kw inverter sounds good till you go to add the extra panels later and get stitched up on price. Using another company to add extra panels may void your warranty.
I would search solar forums to see what is the go (panel types/wattage good/bad inverters company reviews). Get quotes from the sales people and get them to come to your house. (they will confirm the location of your inverter / western power meter / roof type / roof pitch etc. and any other cost(s) you might be up for. Don't compromise on size, remember the winter months.
Good Luck
Steve
sea-kem
Posts: 15120
Date Joined: 30/11/09
Check out Solar E mate. They
Check out Solar E mate. They did ours, the sales guys was a no bullshit bloke who just basically laid it all out. There are a couple out there attached to the Modern group of companies so watch out for them, Polaris was one. A complete rip off.
Love the West!
Paul G
Posts: 5215
Date Joined: 12/12/07
Mate I spent 5k on a unit
Mate I spent 5k on a unit 16 panals and would never recommend a solar systerm to anyone .My house uses 36units per day my solar makes 13 on a good winters day sometimes only 3 units . Also they recommend you turn on your dish washer ,washing machine, pool pump and anything that uses electricity during the day when the sun is out . Great if your home all day and don't work. What a load of wank we got $20 credit last bill BIG DEAL .spend your money on something for your boat that you will benefit from . Never again
Active Gyp-Rok solutions ,Residential and commercial ceilings and walls
Goin_Fushin.
Posts: 88
Date Joined: 07/12/13
My calcs...
Hi Paul
Please correct correct me if my calcs are wrong:
You paid $5000 for your system, You use 36 units per day, you got $20 credit for your last billing period(3 months ????)
36 units per day x 30(to convert to month) x 3(for biling period) = 3240 units used in 3 months
3240 x $0.27(Synergy unit price) = $874 + $20(credit) = $894 credit for 3 months or $298 credit per month.
System price $5000 / $298 per month = 16 months to repay the price of the system ????
Ok this may be best case scenario... (summer) if the unit only produced this amount for a quater of the year you are looking at 5 years for the system to pay for it's self.
If you didn't have a solar system your bill for 3 months would be approximately 3240 x $0.27 = $874 plus supply charges ($0.45 per day) $40.50 totalling $914.50
Not being rude but I think that I would prefer the $20 credit any day.
sammy85
Posts: 831
Date Joined: 31/08/10
do you have an electrical or
do you have an electrical or electrical boosted hot water system Scotto?
Plumber and gas fitter- 0415489103
scotto
Posts: 2474
Date Joined: 21/04/08
nah mate,
gas hot water.
petermac
Posts: 2946
Date Joined: 03/03/10
the rebate
I had a 2.4 kw system put in by true value , I wish I had never done it now it will take me close to 20 years to get my money back
you have missed the junket as have I the solar rebate is so crap now its not worth doing it
ricey
Posts: 737
Date Joined: 24/12/09
I got a 3KW system
and the good rebate deal. I have kids and wife at home, use a fair amount of power and it works well for ius, pays for itself in 6 years, some free power beyond that.
The systems are half the price now than then. 3KW gives you up to 25KW a day in summer, half that in winter.
Selling back is rubbish now, so you want to use it or lose it. ie when sun is shining - use power if you can and it is pretty much free. if you don't use it, it is only a minimal amount of cash.
So if you use power in the day - do it, if not don't.
Paul if you got $20 credit instead of say a $250 bill, isnt that $270 over two months in winter? and even if you say $100 a month it pays for itself in 4 or 5 years, then is making money after that?
That sounds good to me.
Wise man says - first take the plank out of your own eye before trying to take the speck out of somebody else's.
petermac
Posts: 2946
Date Joined: 03/03/10
well it would sound
of course its good you would have got the 27c feed in tariff but the feed in tariff is down to I think 6c now ,which wont pay for your solar system very quickly and wont lower your bills by much spend your money on some fishing gear and at least you will get some use out of it
Paul G
Posts: 5215
Date Joined: 12/12/07
My bills are $600 plus they
My bills are $600 plus they told us we would halve our bill ,lies this is not the case
Active Gyp-Rok solutions ,Residential and commercial ceilings and walls
fishy fingers
Posts: 1719
Date Joined: 28/04/07
My bills are a grand a month
I think I need my own power station!
tim-o
Posts: 4657
Date Joined: 24/05/11
Dont waste your money. Do the
Dont waste your money. Do the math, itl be years before you get your money back and the performace of the system will be reduced by then. You have to make use of the power when (daytime) you are producing it. No point getting stuff all for what you put in the grid then buy it back for shitloads more. You have to be prepared to get up and clean them all the time, one bit of bird shit will stop a panel from working as the cells are linked in series and dirty panels loose their effeciency. They loose effeciency over time too. My mate builds weather stations and wave bouys and uses solar panels to keep the batteries charged but it is hard to get longevity and reliability in between servicing some of these remotely located bouys. Another mate spent 10k on a 5kw system, his ac is 12 kw on its own haha, regrets it now. I believe it was an economic stimulus by the govt, sucked alot of people that 'want to spend money on something thats guna save us in the long run' in. Sure the rebates and rates were good way back when, but now? I also believe its the govs crap solution to Perths struggle to meet power demands. Ugly as a hat full of arseholes too
I am, as I've said, merely competent. But in an age of incompetence, that makes me extraordinary.
petermac
Posts: 2946
Date Joined: 03/03/10
you are dead right
10% coverage of bird crap or any thing for that matter results in a drop of 90% out put , our nav aids (solar panels) in Hampton harbor needed cleaning every 6 months , it wasn't a pleasant job I can assure you
sunshine
Posts: 2641
Date Joined: 03/03/09
Carbon Footie
I had them install a 4KW system two years ago and bluntly am surprized at some of the comments above. Whilst we only receive a 9 cents a KW credit for power we do not use there is absolutely no question it has cut our power bills in half or better. In summer hot spells I run a 6hp master slave AC system continuously............. before the panels the power bills in summer were hitting $1200 for a quarter but since installation nothing over $600 even in the height of summer and often around $200 at other times
Factually my panels are FAR from being ideally positioned as we back onto a golf course and the panels are shaded and completely loose efficiency from perhaps 3.30pm onwards ..............my only regret is that I did not install 5.5KW
As for cleaning them, yes it helps but I have only cleaned the dust and bird shit off once but they still generate 3kw plus at peak time even dirty
Best investment I ever made !
sea-kem
Posts: 15120
Date Joined: 30/11/09
Yep agree with your comments
Yep agree with your comments sunshine and that's about what we get out of ours. I have a timer on the pool pump to run through the day and also the dishwasher. Missus only usually washes on a Sat morning so there's the most consumptive appliances covered. And we have literally halved our bills in summer on a 3kw system. I mean people need to be reaslistic as with a solar hw system they are virtually usless in winter but once the sun starts shinning in spring and onwards they come into their own. We're happy with our solar systems.
Love the West!
z00m
Posts: 1086
Date Joined: 10/05/14
We got a 3.1Kw system through
We got a 3.1Kw system through Energy Matters (www.energymatters.com.au) using the latest REC panels at the time. We are a house of 4 and don't like to sweat the hot summer days at home and used to have a power bill north of $800 in summer and $300 in winter. We don't get any rebates (didn't fill out the 7c rebate paperwork) and our summer bill is no more than $350 and the winter one is about $160. Our air con is ducted reverse cyle 9kw cooling and 11kw heating for the whole house.
The quality and output of the panels matters a lot. We put our system in to reduce our bills, not to get money back. The reduction in the bill is what is paying for the system, not the rebate.
chris raff
Posts: 3257
Date Joined: 09/02/10
Hey Scotto , Grab yourself a
Hey Scotto ,
“Intelligence is like a four-wheel drive. It only allows you to get stuck in more remote places.”
crasny1
Posts: 7009
Date Joined: 16/10/08
Havent got one yet
As we only returned from the Pilbara ayear ago, but the bills is rediculous.
I think there is two reasons to get one:
1. Reduce your bill - you will never make money from it (not yet anyway)
2. Reduce carbon footprint - if we all did we wouldnt have to worry about global warming as much. AND - Im bloody no Greenie and probably detest the lot off them. But this bit could do something fairly simple.
Our bill is about $600, hoping to reduce that. Heating and cooking gas so dont have to worry about that. Large Spa and ACon chews power in summer. Will also put a small solar panel on my hothouse to run all the power there for watering etc. Then grow a lot of own vegies etc. And no I dont have a "Hydroponic" setup for Hippy-erbs.
"I would like to die on Mars. Just not on impact!!" _ Elon Musk
pale ale
Posts: 1755
Date Joined: 02/01/10
I have read that the
I have read that the manufacturing of solar panels is very "carbon intensive". ie you are not doing the environment any favours by buying them.
petermac
Posts: 2946
Date Joined: 03/03/10
growing your own vegies
Cransy , growing your own vegies is so good , we have tomatoes (the best things on toast for breaky with a free range fried egg) garlic (that actually tastes like garlic should), sage, bazil ,lettuce , sweet corn , mint, a mini lemon tree loaded with lemons , kafalime , chillie plants(bloody super hot), Thai eggplant,lemongrass and a paw paw tree that we moved from K town to Waikiki that is producing more fruit than it ever did up there , my next project is to grow mangos in a pot I have seen it done in perth but takes a bit of time , got all this going on a suburban block
crasny1
Posts: 7009
Date Joined: 16/10/08
Its great fun
Were we live unfortunately (or fortunately depending on your view) we are very close to wild mother nature. So the plants have been hammered by Rabbits, roos, bandicoots and possums. They especially love capsicums. So got the hothouse to keep the varmin out. Grow everything from seed which is the first challenge.
Also do a control with all plants going to be grown outside and inside to see how much better they do. Everything outside full protection against the animals. Have so far potatoes, lots of Toms, cucumber, capsicum, strawberries, pees (both snow and normal), spinach and all sorts of herbs. But expanding daily as I experiment.
"I would like to die on Mars. Just not on impact!!" _ Elon Musk
uncle
Posts: 9590
Date Joined: 10/02/07
report out today about renewables
might make you think again, they say that when the turbines wear out which is happening now, most places wont replace them as there too expensive for what they deliver, the f...... things wear out, who would of thought theyed wear out?????
all aggressive fish love bigjohnsjigs
Walfootrot
Posts: 1385
Date Joined: 23/07/12
LOL who would have
LOL who would have thought...
Will be putting solar panels on at mums to help her get her bills down, good or bad investment I dont know, but once there in there in till they die.
what happens when the power goes up another 20-30% in the next 5,6 or 7 years and the bills you get now $600 go up to $700- 800.
More drum lines, kill the bloody sharks!
Deleted
Posts: 6265
Date Joined: 26/04/14
all for solar its worked
all for solar its worked wonders for us, more larger size panels the better. dont bother with lots of small panels
roberta
Posts: 2773
Date Joined: 08/07/08
We got Solar Hart from Gero
Steve was great, have all electric house, put up 12panels and on average my bill during winter/summer get a saving of $60 to $75 on my quarterly bill, 3kw and cost us fitted $7,000. I'm happy with that, as I run two a/c's one big Daikin for the kitchen/dining area, all doors shut in house keeps it nice and cool. Put a Panasonic 1kw in the loungeroom, when house is nice and cool, I turn off big a/c and turn on the smaller one in the loungeroom while watching TV in the afternoon, evening, keeps the place nice and cool. Same when its cold in the winter time on heat. Be interesting to see if I have saved anything as sold two older freezers, have only a full fridge and a chest freezer now, both fairly new.
Ginger Tablets Rock
shonky
Posts: 203
Date Joined: 22/04/12
Carbon footie
I also wonder at some of these comments. We put a 4kw system up 4 years ago so we scored the 40c buy back + the 8 cent federal gov money on top of that. Our power bills went from $800 every 2 months or whatever it is to sweet f/a and the system has payed for itself, but same as sunshine I should have gone the 5kw system too as we are power pigs and don't mind using the air conds and electric patio heaters as well.( hate the cold ) also changed from gas cooking to electric but kept gas hot water. The only advice I would give is get German made gear.
This habit is getting expensive!
petermac
Posts: 2946
Date Joined: 03/03/10
are you sure
you got a 40 cent feed in tariff , when was that? , don't think the feed in tarrif has ever been as high as 40 cents a kilo watt especially in the last 4 years if ever , if you got that deal I want to get it too can you give me your installers info?
shonky
Posts: 203
Date Joined: 22/04/12
Too late Pete
My feed in tariff is actually 48cents per kWh but the state gov stopped the offer because too many people started picking it up. They tried to scrap it about a year ago but we're threatened with a class action lawsuit so thought better of it as we all have a written contract for 15 years. I know at one stage horizon energy were paying 60 cents a kWh because my neighbour in Karratha was collecting it on his 12 kW system, but he paid over 100k for that back then.
This habit is getting expensive!
Doooma
Posts: 791
Date Joined: 05/12/09
Shit, my power bill is
Shit, my power bill is closer to $1100 every 60 days up here in Carnarvon!!
yours is nothin!! Lol
petermac
Posts: 2946
Date Joined: 03/03/10
might be wrong but
I have heard because of the power station set up in Carnarvon , Carnarvon shire residents are not entitled to any solar power rebates , hope I am wrong but think I read that in the paper last year
just dhu it
Posts: 1081
Date Joined: 14/05/09
free power
sorry scotto , theres no such thing as free power , when the government took back the 60 , 50 and 40 cent rebates there no real way or cheap way of getting free power as such , the rebate on offer at the moment is around 6 or 7 cents per KW used so you will have to put 4 x the kws into the grid that you are not using to get one kw for free ,
A good salesman will design a system for your house that will cover a large percentage of power being used during the day which that section you will not be charged for , remember most panels only work at 90 % from 10 am to about 3pm due to sun being high level, after that you only produce a percentage of what you system is rated too .
I was looking for a 3 kw system but the price range at the time I installed a 2.25 kw system , this cover s my pool pump and general electrics in the house , we use the dishwasher and washing machine during the best periods of the day , my bill each 60 days was around 400 to 500 now its 200 to 280, hence why I wanted 3 KWs to try and get to 200 each bill , my view on the cost for a reasonable quality was I spent $ 2,300 and I would be saving half of my electric bill ,I didntquate to getting my money back,just getting a saving each bill and especially with energy cost rising each year. most people would hesitate to going on holidays and putting $ 2 k on their credit card
or taking out a car loan for $ 20k over 5 years only to sell it later for $ 8 k . solar panels unless you spend big dollars wont cover ACs as most bigger units just use to much power but you will get some minor running cost back so in general I would look at 3 to 3.5 kw on a north face roof
Andy_b
Posts: 633
Date Joined: 19/10/11
i got 22 pannels on my roof,
i got 22 pannels on my roof, last power bill was 89 bucks, thanks for comming!!
Goin_Fushin.
Posts: 88
Date Joined: 07/12/13
22 pannels?
What are you running to still get a bill?
Maybe you should look at nucular fusion....?
big john
Posts: 8771
Date Joined: 20/07/06
LOL
hahahaha
WA based manufacturer and supplier of premium leadhead jigs, fligs, bucktail jigs, 'bulletproof' soft plastic jig heads and XOS bullet jig heads.
Jigs available online in my web store!
petermac
Posts: 2946
Date Joined: 03/03/10
nuclear pover
the big problem with nuclear is in wa we don't have the power demand to justify one , lots of people get gas fired and coal fired stations mixed coal fired are base load stations , meaning they they are on line all gently humming away all the time where as gas turbines are instant stations and are peaking stations its a bit like comparing sleeping Labrador to a frisky jack russel, biggest laugh is when the greenys film all the vapour coming of the cooling towers at muja powers station and claim it as pollution
Starbug
Posts: 563
Date Joined: 27/08/09
Fusion..... well that's what
Fusion..... well that's what I use to power my solar cells.
Just about to have 6kw of panels fitted. With this and the LED down lights I have fitted it should take about 75% off my bill.
sea-kem
Posts: 15120
Date Joined: 30/11/09
So Scotto, does this answer
So Scotto, does this answer your question??
Love the West!
scotto
Posts: 2474
Date Joined: 21/04/08
NOPE!!
still green as all fuck!
Starbug
Posts: 563
Date Joined: 27/08/09
OK you need to do a bit of
OK you need to do a bit of investigation before you choose.
1 Check your power usage. read you meter at 8am and 5pm for a couple of weeks to find you day/night and overall usage.
2 check past bills to see what your seasonal variances are.
3 work out what power usages can be time shifted to the day when you are producing power. Pool pumps, washing machines, dishwashers often have delay start timers to take advantage of this.
4 The best payback period is for a system that you can use all of its generated power, with no exports. Conversely a bigger system will drop you power bill more and have more exports, but the payback period blows out.
5 Its going to sit on you roof for a long time so choose quality gear and a good install company. Infinite Energy, Solargain, Solar 2020, all seen to rate as the choice of install companys on the whirlpool forum. http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies.cfm?t=2258554&p=36
D_d_001
Posts: 1522
Date Joined: 09/03/13
Someone on here have said
Someone on here have said that the offset is 6c/kwh (feed in) but remember speaking with a mate a while (sorry cant remember the details very well) back who mentioned he has had his system running for a while with an "old type" meter. non digital which only and literally winds back the meter during the day when it imputs power to the grid.
He said at the time he can never "get paid" but of course his "feed in" tariff is equal to what he uses.....ie completely indexed to future rises.
wish I had quizzed him more at the time but does anyone know much about running a system with a non digital power meter?
shonky
Posts: 203
Date Joined: 22/04/12
old meters
thats true, I have seen meters running backwards when exporting power back into the grid however those were older systems, about 8 or 9 years old now. don't know about the legalities are on this now though.
This habit is getting expensive!
Starbug
Posts: 563
Date Joined: 27/08/09
Been doing a little
Been doing a little investigation on the legalities of the old analogue meters and solar systems. Apparently they are not legal and never have been.
http://www.solar4ever.com.au/Synergy.php
Starbug
Posts: 563
Date Joined: 27/08/09
I am a sparky but as Solar PV
I am a sparky but as Solar PV systems are not my area of speciality, I cannot comment on with any authority on old installations. To the best of my knowledge solar grid tied systems have always required a meter that can measure both power imported and exported as the import/export tariffs are different.
sunshine
Posts: 2641
Date Joined: 03/03/09
Why does recouping the cost factor in
And why look at the whole of the cost - the array adds to the value of the home for resale purposes as well as making power bills far more acceptable. If you are looking at recouping outlay surely both need to be factored into the equation?
I looked at several installations at friends homes before deciding on Carbon Footie - hated the name !!!! but their installation work was by far and away the best by a country mile and I actually feel the installation they did at my home was the best I had seen and I didn't stand over them and supervise.
Still regret not getting the extra KW allowable at the time I istalled but do not regret one cent of the outlay as it was worth every penny
Starbug
Posts: 563
Date Joined: 27/08/09
True, there are other factors
True, there are other factors to consider than just payback period. I am planning on 6kw of panels on a 5kw inverter.
although limited by the inverter size, the oversized panel array gives a greater generation window and improved performance on marginal light days.
Jason P
Posts: 521
Date Joined: 16/02/13
From what i have seen with
From what i have seen with resale on homes the solar panels don't make much difference just an added bonus, and If the owners of the house have the 40 cent extra tarriff it can't be transfered t the new owners as is a contract that ceases once sold.
DM306
sunshine
Posts: 2641
Date Joined: 03/03/09
I am still amazed at power generated on cloudy days
Even heavily overcast still generates 2kw for the brightest part of the day but does drop off quickly as the afternoon sets in
petermac
Posts: 2946
Date Joined: 03/03/10
bollocks mate
a 2.4 kw rated output rated set of panels would be lucky to put out 1800 kw on the sunniest of days its a bloody scam take it from some 1 with solar experience and is a qualified elect / instrument tech , I have had a oscilloscope hooked up to my system to check the quality of my export and to tell the truth it is shitty , what I am putting back into the grid is a very gritty saw wave not your conventional 180 degree sine wave, now if there are couple of thousand contributors doing the same as me it means verve energy has to move from nearly unity power factor
to the running at a lower power factor curve `which costs every one in the community more bucks , when it comes to their power bill
johnthefisher
Posts: 9
Date Joined: 25/08/12
You fellas have got it wrong
You fellas have got it wrong The power you produce is not offset against the power you produce so is wrong to use power during the day.
If you use 10 units of power during the day it will cost you 10 x 27 = $2.70
if you produce 10 units of power during the day you will earn 10 x 8 = 80cents
therefore your daily cost is $2.70 -80 =$1.90
The 10 units you produce is not taken off the 10 that you use leaving you with a zero usage
Jason P
Posts: 521
Date Joined: 16/02/13
If the 10 units was created
If the 10 units was created during the day, and the 10 units was used during the night, it would be as you said, but if you used the 10 units during the day while they were creating then one negates the other because you use your own power first and send the leftovers to the grid.
DM306
Starbug
Posts: 563
Date Joined: 27/08/09
Correct. if you are producing
Correct. if you are producing 4kw from your cells and only using 3kw, you export the excess 1kw @ ~7c per Kwh.
If your production drops to say 2kw, and you are using 3kw, you import the extra 1kw from the grid @ ~24c per Kwh.
chris raff
Posts: 3257
Date Joined: 09/02/10
What a scam , so you produce
What a scam , so you produce 10 units and use ten units and you are still $1.90 out of pocket .. think there having a lend of us lol
“Intelligence is like a four-wheel drive. It only allows you to get stuck in more remote places.”
petermac
Posts: 2946
Date Joined: 03/03/10
anouther scam is
the solar company's have another scam going true value require you to have you panels "serviced" once a year to maintain your warranty , as a sparky my self I said I would do it myself , solar value said " that might void your warranty if you don't have solar experience " luckly I have heaps of solar experience and if they void my warranty , I will take them on in court
petermac
Posts: 2946
Date Joined: 03/03/10
anouther scam is
the solar company's have another scam going true value require you to have you panels "serviced" once a year to maintain your warranty , as a sparky my self I said I would do it myself , solar value said " that might void your warranty if you don't have solar experience " luckly I have heaps of solar experience and if they void my warranty , I will take them on in court
crasny1
Posts: 7009
Date Joined: 16/10/08
Oh PeteYou need a chill out
Oh Pete
You need a chill out pill - you seem to want to take everyone to Court . It must be a Yank thing coming out in you.
"I would like to die on Mars. Just not on impact!!" _ Elon Musk
Jason P
Posts: 521
Date Joined: 16/02/13
This may
This may help?
http://www.solargain.com.au/solar-calculator/savings
DM306
Sulo
Posts: 256
Date Joined: 13/08/11
When working out the cost,
When working out the cost, you should also factor in that the solar panels will probably all be dead in ten years time and will need replacing... They are not forever!
Starbug
Posts: 563
Date Joined: 27/08/09
Maybe the panels of 20 years
Maybe the panels of 20 years ago. Most good quality panels today have a 10 year warranty. Performance degradation will still see them putting out ~90% after 20 years.
johnthefisher
Posts: 9
Date Joined: 25/08/12
Jason p You still have it
Jason p You still have it wrong mate With an import export meter everything you produce is exported and recorded and everything you use is imported and recorded as in your example
If you produce 4 kw then 4kw is exported and you get paid 4 x the buy back rate which is 8cents =32cents
If you use 3 kw then you get charged at 27cents per unit 81cents Everything you produce is exported there is no local use of power mate the new meters are very clever.
Devo1965
Posts: 120
Date Joined: 29/09/13
Un-clear
Can't get my head around your logic: All the experts tell solar power users to use appliances during the day, run equipment spread out during the day, run higher power consumption items when sun is at is best conversion and try to maximize power out put of solar power output(make hay while the sun shines). My understanding is that power generated from solar power goes through the inverter and straight to house holed appliances, any excess solar power created is sent to the grid, any extra power required is draw from the grid.
Devo1965
Starbug
Posts: 563
Date Joined: 27/08/09
Correct. Any excess after
Correct. Any excess after your usage is exported. This is how domestic PV systems are metered and charged in WA.
Any power that is produces is used locally first. The PV system is connected to the Consumer switch board, not to a separate channel on the meter. A simple application of ohms law will show you that the power will be consumed locally first.
"Ya canna change the laws of physics" Scotty.
The Saint
Posts: 481
Date Joined: 30/01/13
Scotto,You're probably
Scotto,
You're probably confused by now !
I' ll give you an example........
I had a 5 KW unit fitted earlier this year by Carbon Footie.
Cost was $7,400
By bills were previously between $460 and $500.
Received my latest bill yesterday $231. And that is in the middle of winter so I'd expect better in the warmer months.
That is a saving of around $250 on my previous bill, or $1500 a year.
To me it is worth the investment.
Cheers,
The Saint
Rob H
Posts: 5850
Date Joined: 18/01/12
that is a bit like saying
that is a bit like saying that my car is more economical cos it goes further on a tank-without knowing the tank size (or how many units on your 2 bills) its not a comparison.?
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
DTrain
Posts: 486
Date Joined: 10/02/12
My parents had a system put
My parents had a system put in a few years ago when there was the feed in tariff of 40c a KWh.
So when they export power to the grid they get 40c but when they use power from the grid it costs them 25c.
So for them it makes more sense not to use electricity during the day while the solar panels are working because they would loose the 40c a KWh.
Instead it's better for them to use power at night when they can buy it off the grid for 25c.
Starbug
Posts: 563
Date Joined: 27/08/09
Yes with the old feed in
Yes with the old feed in tariff that was the case, but that is no longer available to new connections. Those still on it will be switched to the 7c REBS scheme when their contract period runs out.
Lastchance
Posts: 1274
Date Joined: 02/02/09
Scotto, get a 3kW set up for
Scotto, get a 3kW set up for the shed, dont hook it up to the mains, just feed into the special cupboard. 2 'Rose' plants, 20 ounces @ $400/Oz every 8 weeks. Dont have to worry about any tarriffs then with power to spare!
Thank me later.
scotto
Posts: 2474
Date Joined: 21/04/08
nailed it
Right there!
Lamby
Posts: 3145
Date Joined: 04/08/09
LOL!
LOL!
Reelax
Posts: 60
Date Joined: 22/12/09
Definatly some very wrong
Definatly some very wrong info going on here...Let me set some things straight
PV systems in WA are eligable for a .7c fead in tarrif
If you put up a PV system it will average about 4.5 units of power per day per kW so a 3.0kW system will give approx 13.5 units per day (anual average)
If you home is during the day using 10 units of power then 10 free units from your PV will go straight into the home and the 3 extra will go to Synergy and be recorded against your next bill as a 3x.7c credit (.21c) So when you get a power bill the credits they show you on the bill is NOT the total power your system made its ONLY what you didnt use and was eccess sent to them...The power you did make and used for free will be recorded on your inverter display.
NOT ALL POWER feads straight to the grid and then synergy works it all out as others have said (plain wrong)
The fead in Tarrif WAS .47c in WA a few years ago it is no longer that as I said its .7c
The goal is to
1) look at your power bill (say its $400) that will be around 24 units a day usage
2) Roughly work out what percentage of power you use during DAYLIGHT hours (thats when you can make free power)
3) IF yor using say 60% of your power during the day pool pumps, dishwasher, washing machines etc yu are using 60% of your 24 units per day during daylight hours so 14.4 units you can obsolete with the right size system
4) 14.4 units x 4.5units per kW = a system around 3.2kW I would suggest a 3.5kW system and have a bit extra
5)So now you have a 3.5kW PV system that is powering your homes day time power use or giving an anual average of $1460 worth of free power..
If a 3.5kW system costs around $8500 less rebate (as of today) -$2592...yes rebates are still going strong you have paid $5900, this is for a quality system from a reputible company thats been around for A LONG time (the one I just bought) With the quality systems there is no reason why in 20 years time it is STILL going strong...(Cheap PV systems are just that) they are mass produced rubbish sold buy cowboys and good luck to the many thousands that took the cheap quote option.
6) so my outlay of $5900 for a top shelf system gives me around $1460 per year in free power (conservatively) then I have a 4 year payback IF the price of power doesnt rise in that 4 years..History says it will so I would say around 3.5 year payback...Cant see a problem with that..
GOEN FISHN, BACK WHEN I'M DAM WELL READY...
t bone
Posts: 351
Date Joined: 20/04/14
spanna in the works.
To some of the other sparkies that have shared their info on here (ive never touched the "domestic" side of the trade) i have heard 2 different side to the story regarding orientation of panels. Some say its better to have everything heading north at what ever elevation it is, which would give you one "larger" peak performance timeframe. Then on the other side of the fence, if you're running, say a 4kw inverter, but have 5.5 worth of panels with half facing east, the others west. You would then get 2 "smaller" peaks, yet at a time of the day where you are more likly to use what you make.
Then also throw in the extra few $$ for a single axis "tracking" unit to increase the peak time frame, its understandable why ppl loose whats up from down.
Starbug
Posts: 563
Date Joined: 27/08/09
Like everything in life it's
Like everything in life it's a compromise.
north facing will give you a good output but can you use the production at the time it is at its maximum? North facing works well if you can use the power or can store it in a battery system.
West will give you early power but generally most households don't use a great deal of power in the morning.
East facing will give you afternoon power, and this is traditionally the highest period of power consumption.
So NE through to W will give you the best production V Use match. With a bit more bias in the number of W facing panels.
crasny1
Posts: 7009
Date Joined: 16/10/08
Was wondering about the
Was wondering about the orientation issue. My house is a North-south oriented building with almost no North facing roof space (plus trees to block that anyway). The roof faces East - west. I am going to get a unit but was worried that it may be suboptimal because of the roof orientation. I thought I might then need more panels to achieve this, and that is more $$$.
"I would like to die on Mars. Just not on impact!!" _ Elon Musk
The Saint
Posts: 481
Date Joined: 30/01/13
What's the verdict ?
So Scotto,
What did you end up deciding ?
scotto
Posts: 2474
Date Joined: 21/04/08
couldnt decide,
sea-kem
Posts: 15120
Date Joined: 30/11/09
Love the West!
saltatrix
Posts: 1081
Date Joined: 30/03/08
Our power bill is $116 per
Our power bill is $116 per quarter. We have gas stove & gas HWS but noticed gas has followed the price of electricity up.
Gas competes with electricity as an energy provider on price. People shifting from state owned electricity to gas white goods etc . Greens funded by US oil & gas industry, funny that
Buy gas shares to offset your electricity bill?
Angling tourism is worth $10 billion to the Australian economy - 90000 jobs; more than any sport; spread the word
saltatrix
Posts: 1081
Date Joined: 30/03/08
If only we had gas fridges as
If only we had gas fridges as fridges use the most power in your house
Insulate you house better, seal it up with some patios on walls where sun hits in 'summer'
Windows are the weak point in houses for heat in, cold out. Dont know why we dont see more tinted windows though you can get E-glass or comfort glass in WA. Glass is like a hole in your boat.
If you have 20 x 40watt downlights, best change them to LED units
Angling tourism is worth $10 billion to the Australian economy - 90000 jobs; more than any sport; spread the word
Starbug
Posts: 563
Date Joined: 27/08/09
Changed out the 50w
Changed out the 50w downlights to 7w LEDs. So far it has seemed to make a big dent in our power use. Next bill will tell all.
saltatrix
Posts: 1081
Date Joined: 30/03/08
Insulation provides better
Insulation provides better cooling in your house than an evaporative system on its own. Best insulate 'well' before putting heat/cooling control in your house first.
Shame we cant get post insulate wall cavity inject in like UK?
Solar panels just keep coming down in price. Systems now cheaper than original rebate systems with rebate.
Angling tourism is worth $10 billion to the Australian economy - 90000 jobs; more than any sport; spread the word
saltatrix
Posts: 1081
Date Joined: 30/03/08
Fill your house wall cavity
Fill your house wall cavity with water resistant expanding foam? > Insulation
If I did my own house I would put 50-100mm polystyrene under the slab to stop heat / cold ingress
Angling tourism is worth $10 billion to the Australian economy - 90000 jobs; more than any sport; spread the word
scotto
Posts: 2474
Date Joined: 21/04/08
air cell,
Or cavity insulation, is pretty much a permanant inclusion on most commercial residential construction projects now, to acheive the required energy rating for the build.
And yes, better thought into windows/glazing can reduce your heating/cooling bill by nearly 90%. No shit.
sea-kem
Posts: 15120
Date Joined: 30/11/09
I've just stripped the
I've just stripped the asbestos skin off our house and insulated all the walls and with new glazed windows should notice a difference this summer. The noise reduction already is a bonus.
Love the West!
scotto
Posts: 2474
Date Joined: 21/04/08
nailed it
Bang on the money with glazing andy. Double glazing is the norm in most parts of europe, as its unbeleivably efficient. Someone somewhere has fucked it right up for aussies, by setting a high precedent price fir double glazing here, that most cant afford.
An example is: I built a house for a dude at work in swanbourne. It was part of the estate prerequisite that all houses in this new estate, all have double glazed windows. The build was aprox $1.8million, so a pretty nice house, but the Frames and glass alone for his house nudged $140,000...
saltatrix
Posts: 1081
Date Joined: 30/03/08
I would rather have a the
I would rather have a the solid fill insulation to stop convection airflow in the cavity. Air cell cant hurt, its good stuff. It gives you a hell of a sun tan fitting it into the cavity. Makes your eyes water.
Australia's double glazing is an economy of scale thing. UK has 60 million people in the size of city of Wanneroo TIC
Their double glaze factories are like car mass production factories. All computer cut etc. Next time you price double glazing ring UK for a price. ;)
Id love to see an aluminium version here. The glass units are standard. Shouldnt be too hard to adapt.
Angling tourism is worth $10 billion to the Australian economy - 90000 jobs; more than any sport; spread the word
Gadsy
Posts: 1467
Date Joined: 01/05/10
Does anyone have any experience
with solar powered heat extractor fans?
My place here in Gero has a cathedral ceiling and it gets stinking hot in summer which neccecitates the aircon being on pretty much all day and night during those really hot spells!
Extractor fans should at least help the aircon to work more efficiently and reduce the power bills somewhat.
I also like the thought of tinted windows, as the front of the house faces east and cops the sun in the morning.
some good tips here folks. Keep it up :)
sea-kem
Posts: 15120
Date Joined: 30/11/09
I'm actually thinking about
I'm actually thinking about them myself Gadsy, Hot air trapped in the roof space in summer is half the battle I reckon.
Love the West!
tot
Posts: 1171
Date Joined: 31/01/10
whirlybirds
Are about $150 and a piss easy to install.
I have been saying for years to customers to put one in at each end of the roof and happy days!
The heat in a ceiling at 7am in summer is amazing.
Reverse cycle a/c supply and install - Ducted and wall splits
saltatrix
Posts: 1081
Date Joined: 30/03/08
Gadsy, when you say cathedral
Gadsy, when you say cathedral ceilings, are you referring raked or vaulted ceilings? If its internal room heat build up, motorised skylight?
If I built from scratch Id have silver insulation, above the rafters under tin. Tin heats up, cools down quick.
Is your roof tin or tiles? If you have exposed rafters you could gyprock line with insulation in it.
You have to be careful not to cause air movement in the ceiling. Air friction causes more heat. You run the danger also of sucking in more 'hot' air.
I will get roller shutters on my non-seen windows to reduce heat ingress.
Angling tourism is worth $10 billion to the Australian economy - 90000 jobs; more than any sport; spread the word
Gadsy
Posts: 1467
Date Joined: 01/05/10
Hi Saltatrix
roof is tiles. Ceiling is exposed beams and gyprock sheets above the beams. Im not sure what is between the tiles and the ceiling, but the heat seems to come straight through in summer, although the windows at the front of the house could be a significant contributing factor in the heat ingress too.
Nelly
Posts: 518
Date Joined: 04/05/08
They way that is designed
They way that is designed pretty much means you cant insulate it.I bought a house with the same feature and will be lining it with gyrock underneath the rafters and insulation to help