fisheries booking and the law
Submitted by meglodon on Tue, 2013-04-02 15:49
I think this is worth a read by those who take people on their boat who don't have a RFBL, and catch fish when you assume thay have a licence. It's a bit long winded but worth the effor IMO
catchalittle
Posts: 1875
Date Joined: 04/09/08
I always asked beforehand if
I always asked beforehand if they have one then its my decision as to whether to take them under my license or tell them to go get one depends on the person
Nathan
Buz
Posts: 1555
Date Joined: 28/08/07
Hmmm interesting read. Thanks
Hmmm interesting read. Thanks for posting this up Meglodon.
Seem he would have been on better grounnds to get off the charge had he asked his mates/deckies if they had licences and they said yes but they didnt. So his biggest mistake i guess was not asking at all.
"61 The learned magistrate recognised in his concluding remarks that if somebody with a recreational (boat) fishing licence expressly enquired of another person, but was wrongly told that the person did hold a licence, that would be a relevant exculpatory consideration. I agree. But that is not this case."
Swompa
Posts: 4037
Date Joined: 14/10/12
I must admit I feel sorry
I must admit I feel sorry for this guy whom hasn't raped and pillaged but has been stung but I guess rules are rules.
Would be nice to see them in plain clothes walking up and down the ammo jetty pinging those who exploit the fishery.
sunshine
Posts: 2690
Date Joined: 03/03/09
So the appeal was allowed - what outcome ??
Seems to me based on the decision to allow the appeal that it is distinctly likely the original person cnvicted will actualy get off - the others may then be charged ??
Andy Mac
Posts: 4778
Date Joined: 03/02/06
Only part you need to look at is this
(4) For the purposes of determining whether a bag limit has been exceeded, any fish taken by an unlicensed person when fishing under the authority conferred by subregulation (3) are to be regarded as having been taken by the other person who holds a recreational (boat) fishing licence.
That to me suggests as skipper I will always need to ask my deckie to check his or her license before we leave the marina. And if I happen to deckie for anyone I will also be obliged to ask the skipper and everyone else onboard if they have a current and valid license.
Cheers
Andy Mac (Fishwrecked Reeltime Editor & Forum Moderator)
Youngest member of the Fishwrecked Old Farts Club
stevewiseman
Posts: 9
Date Joined: 07/04/13
Fishing regs
After 2 years of all the duck shoving I had my day in court and won, now its time to get the legislation made quite clear as suggested by the Judge, no more use of the big stick and black holes, lets get the Department to put it in good old readable english. I will be having my say whenever I can and I feel sure that a lot of others will aswell after reading the full transcript document.
Steve Wiseman (2Rods)
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kmo
Posts: 127
Date Joined: 17/01/12
Interesting read
I think this part is pretty pertinent though Andy:
I'm glad to see that the appeal has been allowed, as I think it is reasonable to assume that the people fishing alongside you in a fishing competition would be aiming to hit their bag limits in order to do well in the competition, and as experienced fishermen should be aware of the requirement for a fishing license to do so.
I think I might put up a sign in my boat saying "I WILL NOT SHARE MY FISHING LICENSE WITHOUT EXPRESS PERMISSION".
stevewiseman
Posts: 9
Date Joined: 07/04/13
Regs
I totaly aggree that (70) has some defining wording, you can put up a sign on your boat but I think that I'll take on Fisheries and get the legislation changed, could be another 2 years.
Steve Wiseman (2rods)
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meglodon
Posts: 5981
Date Joined: 17/06/10
I must confess
I'm still a bit confused, the way it reads to me is that the appeal is allowed and therefor Mr Wiseman has grounds to appeal his conviction. If you don't have a licence you can not be convicted of exceeding your bag limit because you don't have one (you don't have a licence with a bag limit on it).
Also is every licence holder now obliged to do the job of fisheries officers, I don't think so.
It appears to me the judge is saying the regulations are a shower of ... and need redrafting to be effective and not full of holes that can be appealed against.
I would love to have a talk with Mr Wiseman to find out the finial outcome.
stevewiseman
Posts: 9
Date Joined: 07/04/13
Laws
Final outcome was Aquited with costs awarded, still waiting to find out how much I get back out of the $$$$$.$$ I put up for the shirt fronts, but my initial claim of fishing "with or against" a person has to be established, I thing that the Judge is correct, we have to get things made clear from Fisheries.
Steve Wiseman (2 rods)
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meglodon
Posts: 5981
Date Joined: 17/06/10
absolutly terrific result
very glad to see the result stevewiseman there is a god.
I don't know who wrote these words but they are certainly true "the price of freedom is eternal vigulance"
Buz
Posts: 1555
Date Joined: 28/08/07
I wonder what would
I wonder what would have happen(if there were only three people on board) if two of them had licences and one didnt and they had say five demersals. Would that mean both the guys with licences would be fined for exceeding their limit?, if so who out of the two would have exceeded their limit by one fish then?
Or would fisheries only fine one because really one would have 'two fish' on his licence the other would have 'three'. If fisheries were to only fine one person how would they decide which one to fine?
Big load of cr*p to me personnally. If you catch fish and you dont have a licence(boat fishing) you should be the one getting fined, unless the licence holder knows you dont have a licence and gives you permission to fish under their licence and he knowingly lets you take more than his limit.
I wondering how long it will take for Fisheries to fix this 'black hole/blunder' in the way the law is worded/enforced. Probably a few years being a Government Department :(
Rob H
Posts: 5900
Date Joined: 18/01/12
in regards to this sort of
in regards to this sort of case, Id love to know what they would do if I was fishing with my kids and the only valid licence was my 6 year old boys?
Would they charge a 6 year old?
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
shonky
Posts: 203
Date Joined: 22/04/12
Not a problem
With the way my lucks going I can't see this as a problem!
This habit is getting expensive!
Jim
Posts: 1355
Date Joined: 05/05/06
I was driving my mates car,
I was driving my mates car, speeding and got pulled over, I dont have a license so he got pinged. Is that similar?
Sounds like a load of wank to me.
Nice one Rob H.
I thought fisheries would get lawyers involved when drafting the rules and regs to avoid crap like this.
Bend over
stevewiseman
Posts: 9
Date Joined: 07/04/13
Legislation Laws
Would love to go over the whole 2 years with you all, the Supreme Court Judge came up with the same finding that I did in my letter to Fisheries, Mr Norman More & the Sunday times.
His coments were as set out in items 69, 70, 71. The department is now wanting to work with Recfishwest with regards changes to the current rule book and possible changes.
My question is how many people may have been prosequted that should not have been due to some ones interpretation of the legislation, the Fisheries officers got it wrong, the Magistrait got it wrong and the Judge got it write!
Steve Wiseman (2rods)
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Andy Mac
Posts: 4778
Date Joined: 03/02/06
Well done Steve
An excellent result and surely a catalyst for some better worded regulations. Good on you for sticking to your guns.
Whilst the original legistaltion may have had good intentions (allowing kids to fish under your license) the poor wording made the license holder and person doing the right thing the percieved guilty party under the law. Fisheries officers and policemen aren't lawyers they simply implement the law as written. So I'd say its simply the law makers that got it wrong.
Cheers
Andy Mac (Fishwrecked Reeltime Editor & Forum Moderator)
Youngest member of the Fishwrecked Old Farts Club
sunshine
Posts: 2690
Date Joined: 03/03/09
Congrats Steve
Both for your tenacity and sense of fair play - our courts (particularly the lower ones) regularly get it wrong but it still takes some real guts to pursue an appeal with the costs and time involved. One for the little guy hoorah
Best regards
Sunshine
stevewiseman
Posts: 9
Date Joined: 07/04/13
Many thanks
Winning this was only the start, now to get on to the changes, am feeling the presure from fisheries allready, I dont think they liked looseing this one.
The Sunday times wants a run through and will be on the ABC regoinal radio Sat morning, david & goliath story, so will have to be carefull to make sure that I use exact quotes from the Judge.
Pass on the good news to all
Steve Wiseman (2rods)
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kmo
Posts: 127
Date Joined: 17/01/12
Well done!
Great result Steve, I hope you get back your full costs.
kmo
Posts: 127
Date Joined: 17/01/12
PS
Will the other guys fishing from your boat now be charged for fishing without a license, or is it too late for Fisheries to press charges?
stevewiseman
Posts: 9
Date Joined: 07/04/13
Charges
I don't think they want any thing more to do with the case and besides one of the guy's has passed away.
Have already been contacted by 2 guys who had something similar happen, 5 guys with 2 licenses, will help them if I can.
Steve Wiseman (2rods)
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Rob H
Posts: 5900
Date Joined: 18/01/12
full kudos Steve, you held
full kudos Steve, you held out and came on top (subject to costs).
Its people like yourself who have the tenacity, that actually directly bring about changes for the better.
Instead of "the man" telling us "we tell you how it is, suck it up princess".
Recfishwest should be picking through these sort of cases and providing direct assistance if you are a member if they arent already.
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
Garry Lilley
Posts: 65
Date Joined: 27/09/06
good news steve. was the
good news steve. was the only sensible outcome. ring up karl langdon on saturday morning, get the story out there.
stevewiseman
Posts: 9
Date Joined: 07/04/13
Thanks Gaz
Was getting a bit winky at the rear, up to $15g + and now working on getting it back.
Steve Wiseman
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stevewiseman
Posts: 9
Date Joined: 07/04/13
PS
Sensible isn't a word we should use when talking about the legislation and fisheries act.
Will be putting a bit together for the papers, someone will print.
Steve Wiseman
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