Fish ban

Has anyone heard there thinking of ( suggesting) a 5 month ban ?


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Our stocks

Wed, 2021-10-20 19:31

Means the population of Dhu in our backyard, most of us farm our spots carefully for sustainability then along comes the likes of VIC DORY and his ego, fucks the place up and leaves without giving a shit. You should be ashamed of yourself, you have no concern for fish stocks,  people like you are never welcome here or anywhere.

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 seems like social media is

Tue, 2021-10-19 15:06

 seems like social media is the cheap and easy way for fisheries to do their research, fisherman have shot themselves in the foot again, used to be the info from frames rec's handed in that was used against us but now they just look on facebook to judge a biomass. I understand they have to get their info from somewhere and i wonder if the same funds have been put into research for each individual species of demersal as they have for crayfish. Wheres our license money go again? suppose the licence price will still go up too? 

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 Cant we make it that every

Tue, 2021-10-19 19:16

 Cant we make it that every day over 15knot breeze is a demersal ban day

sea-kem's picture

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 That would rule pretty well

Tue, 2021-10-19 20:13

 That would rule pretty well all of summer out lol.

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I like March /April

Tue, 2021-10-19 20:44

Weather light n/east winds , not to hot .

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Maybe a maximum

Wed, 2021-10-20 08:06

size limit on Dhufish like the beloved Barramundi which has a 80cm maximum size on it......egos will be smashed, top breeders will be conserved.

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Missing the point

Wed, 2021-10-20 10:14

 You are missing the point. Dhuies predominately do not survive release...hence you have to stop people fishing for them.

Barrumundi totally different.

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I'm not missing any point

Wed, 2021-10-20 19:57

the fact is there is no science in such proposals...as for releasing any fish, its the way most fish are brought to the surface, Braid being one culprit and the clowns that show How it's done on near every fishing show...some need to enjoy the moment and fight the fish with ease....by the way, why are Fish release weight mandatory.

 

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 To the contrary, braid can

Wed, 2021-10-20 20:31

 To the contrary, braid can be a benefit for dhus

mono stretches allowing dhu fish greater opportunity to go back down, the yo yo effect of being able to get back down over and over increases the effects of barotrauma.

braid with a consistent slow retrieve and not letting the fish power back to the bottom is going to give it the best chance of surving

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 Release weights are primarly

Wed, 2021-10-20 20:34

 Release weights are primarly for getting the fish back to the bottom to give it the best chance, although minimal chance of survival.

out of site and out of mind, dhu fish rolled over dead on the bottom is a better look than dhu fish floating on the surface 

Brody's picture

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It certainly is a better look

Thu, 2021-10-21 00:14

It certainly is a better look but it's not a good way of looking at it. Release weight doesn't solve much at all in the over all issue though they certainly can and do work. Of the dhufish I've tagged and released, I've witnessed a near on 10% recapture rate, which I personally consider extremely high. One dhufish was recaptured 4 times, quite a few other multiple recaptures. Some of these were 'dead' fish. I try to look after them as well as I can and when using a release weight, I drop them roughly half way back to the bottom. Not sure if what I'm doing is best practice or not but it seems to work to some extent in terms of giving them a chance. 

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Depth?

Thu, 2021-10-21 06:55

What depth Body you getting your recaptures Body?

Brody's picture

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 10-45m. Mostly 25-30m.

Thu, 2021-10-21 09:54

 10-45m. Mostly 25-30m.

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What about the dhuie you recaptured 4 times?

Thu, 2021-10-21 12:32

 Ta.

Brody's picture

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 28m that one. Had hardly

Thu, 2021-10-21 13:48

 28m that one. Had hardly moved each time. Within a 200m square area I guess.

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Maybe dhus don’t release well

Wed, 2021-10-20 09:50

now by being skull dragged on briad, back when we seemed to get a lot of recaptures, yo yo the black arse was released 5 times 

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 That's definitely part of

Wed, 2021-10-20 13:42

 That's definitely part of the problem Unc is skull dragging, I had to educate my deckie to stop trying to wrench it's off under water. I've  said to him let them run and retrieve slowly so as not to stress them out so much if it has to go back. 

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See em in the videos Andy

Wed, 2021-10-20 16:07

like  lifting weights, on mono it’s softly softly

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the scientific research done

Wed, 2021-10-20 19:14

the scientific research done by fisheries involved slowly raising demersals and then send back down, 85-90% mortality, raise them as slow as you like chances are they are fucked.

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 Woud that not depend on

Wed, 2021-10-20 19:33

 Woud that not depend on depth? 

I'll still do it the same way, imo the fish will be in better shape than one skull dragged with the bends.

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once you go past 25m the full

Wed, 2021-10-20 19:43

once you go past 25m the full effects kick in and the dhu fish mortality rate peaks

sea-kem's picture

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 Cool, most my Dhuies are in

Wed, 2021-10-20 19:46

 Cool, most my Dhuies are in the 20-35m range, so with care there's a certain % that will survive albeit small. Not that I release a lot, we usually fill the quota with reasnable Dhue's before hunting Baldies and Whiting.

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"Scientific research"

Wed, 2021-10-20 20:08

I was on that team doing the catch and release research program. My job was catching the fish, I was timed from hook-up to surface, I skull dragged some and also played others up very slowly. We got some interesting results that I'm not prepared to or allowed to talk about.

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Were you working for ASIO?

Thu, 2021-10-21 09:12

Were you working for ASIO?

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Confidentiality Agreement

Thu, 2021-10-21 12:03

Private citizen that donated his resources for free to help in the research. Signed a Confidentiality Agreement with Fisheries research dept. To avoid having my arse dragged through court, I should stay quiet on what we did.

sea-kem's picture

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 But you've already given us

Thu, 2021-10-21 12:10

 But you've already given us a hint 

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They were being trained to

Thu, 2021-10-21 16:04

They were being trained to plant tracking devices on chinese submarines 

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I'll come clean

Thu, 2021-10-21 19:16

I just did it for fun, got a free Fisheries pass to catch as many as I could,...... *looking for middle finger emoji*

 

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i blame

Wed, 2021-10-20 09:51

the phone!!

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TorquenFish's picture

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Do people really struggle

Wed, 2021-10-20 17:59

Do people really struggle releasing Dhuies that much? I reckon I can honestly say I've never had one come up looking f*cked, let along not be able to swim off immediately. Would probably catch at least 1-2 undersized Dhu a trip too and they zoom off no worries. The only fish I always have issues releasing is baldies / tuskies. Reckon I'd have about a 80% mortality rate with any of those released (thankfully most I catch are size).

 

Also for those catching stacks of Dhus even after your boat limit is reached, surely you have ground where Dhuies are pretty uncommon? I've got plenty of spots you never hook a Dhu and catch the other usual suspects instead (pinkies, baldies, blackass etc.).

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thats the problem, they may

Wed, 2021-10-20 19:17

thats the problem, they may look fine and release well but most will die, the damage is done internally, burst vessels etc

 

this is what the latest reaserch is saying and is the basis for fisheries research concern and re-evaluating things as they underestmated the barotrauma mortality

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 I don't know if I buy

Wed, 2021-10-20 19:33

 I don't know if I buy this... Any link to said research?

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this was the original

Wed, 2021-10-20 19:48

this was the original study but they have since realised it is farworse.

 

frr191.pdf (fish.wa.gov.au)

TorquenFish's picture

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 Ta mate, just had a good

Wed, 2021-10-20 20:22

 Ta mate, just had a good read of that (along with some other general Googling for scientific papers). 

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 Problem research realised

Wed, 2021-10-20 20:00

 Problem research realised now is they didn't factor in the amount demersals being released to obtain a bag limit or by catch and release fishers and those that upsize.

I don't catch and release intentionally for sport and I also don't upsize, but yes I am guilty of having to release dhu fish after I have two whilst trying to find a snapper or black arse, apparently that makes me worse than the devil, but so be it.

I don't get 10 plus dhus every trip, some days I might catch 2, the numbers I used were to represent the dhu fish to other demersal ratio that for me usually results a lot more dhu fish compared to other fish, next time I won't round it all to nice even numbers in an attempt to exaggerate a point and I will say raising 5.23 dhus resulting in 4.3892 dhu fish dying etc etc 

an increase in fish being released exponentially blows out there calculated mortality rates as they didn't factor it in.

 

fact is based on my experience a bag limit of 2 dhus, boat limit of 4 dhus and no minimise size limit would be a far more sustainable fishery than the current fishing rules.

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In that case

Thu, 2021-10-21 20:53

 I can see your point, but your first post painted such a graphic picture of Dhu destruction for the sake to catching a second demersal. So yeh,  if the demersal limit stays at 2  and dhu stocks look OK, then 2 dhu or whatever else. But I can't see Fisheries easing off, based on the persistent trend to reduce bag limits (pinks, dhu, herring etc), expanding closure areas and durations for the metro pinks, bans on southern gar and so on. So a further reduction to a demersal bag limit of 1, or some sort of extended demersal ban would be more consistent with revious managment actions. Either will cause an uproar. My mates in north Qld are absolutely shocked at how severe WA's bag and size limits are for some species in comparison to theirs, but maybe it's for the best?

 

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Precisely what Ive been

Sat, 2021-10-23 05:54

Precisely what Ive been seeing in this thread as well Reefsta, 'I catch heaps, bag limits are shit, I want my moneys worth' nek minnut 'yeah nah hardly any survive'. What a flog!

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Dhufish stocks 10 years ago

Wed, 2021-10-20 18:32

As I recall it was around 2010 when Fisheries reduced the rec anglers to two dhufish per boat and the two month demersal ban was introduced.  At the same time or thereabouts the comms were banned from taking dhufish from metro waters.  I was of the view from comments on this site over the following years that fishers believed metro catches of dhufish had improved as a result of those measures ........ ???

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Stocks never been better

Wed, 2021-10-20 18:52

 Well I had fisheries tell me at the ramp that dhu fish stocks weren't the problem.

They said pinky number were down, but what I have seen the fish stock has never been better.

Well if they bring a 5 month ban in, I don't think anyone should have to pay for a boat fishing license! 

All I can say is stop the pro's 

 

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Dhufish aquaculture

Wed, 2021-10-20 19:09

Would it be viable to breed Dhufish in captivity and release potentially millions of juveniles back into the wild?

According to a fisheries reporrt a 50cm female on average can spawn 36 000 eggs, an 80cm model can spawn 190 000 eggs. In the wild a lot of those eggs are not going to survive due to predation, weather etc.

Going down this route might help........BUT.......What happens when you release 1 000 000 Dhufish fingerlings into the wild? Do they eat all the food that my Baldchin friends are trying to eat?, do they become a dominent pest?

I have no real answer to the situation we are facing, more research is required on all levels and educating the catch and release mob is crucial. Maybe make it illegal to catch and release Demersals with hefty fines if caught, I know it's hard to enforce and control but at least they won't be posting their EGO trip on social media anymore.

https://frdc.com.au/sites/default/files/products/1999-322-DLD.pdf


 

sea-kem's picture

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 This is an intersting quick

Wed, 2021-10-20 19:14

 This is an intersting quick read, some more in depth articles online 

https://researchrepository.murdoch.edu.au/id/eprint/43205/

 

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 Well, I have never caugh a

Thu, 2021-10-21 14:14

 Well, I have never caugh a Dhu! Anyone care to share their spot   haha

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 Hey guyswe were informed of

Thu, 2021-10-21 18:01

 Hey guys

we were informed of this post from a few people on social media
 

I have read a few posts but thought I'd post something and have a look through the rest of the comments to see everybody else's opinions also. 

So

We have been talking with recfish west and other agencies  for a while about our plans as a company and  of what we plan doing for the recreational community

 

We've heard that the government's had plans to shut down rec fishing for a year. Due to the whole COVID issue. 
'recfish west being funded by the government doesn't have the leverage to fight them on these issues

the whole dropping the fillets rules came in as a way to appease the government because the uproar the recreational community would have about being unable to fish.

'through this information coming up on this site, this obviously has been on the government's agenda the whole time. And now it seems through murmurs they are trying for a 6 month ban which will most probably end up being during optimal weather seasons. 
 

we totally disagree with a 5 month ban 

 

as Vic Dory pointed in his post we have the same views of the duh fish bag limit .....And in discussions recentlly with recfish I also expressed my concern with the duh fish bag limits to them for these reasons

dhu fish bag limit needs to be increased to stop 

releasing of multiple demersal bycatch to get your bag limits  as vic dory pointed out

 And people will be less likely releasing just over size dhufish to upgrade to a trophy dhu. 


'it seems nothing is happening yet the next 6 months I feel something will. 


We will be right behind everyone fighting this cause and throwing whatever rescourses we can at it.

 

The past 12 months we have been talking with recfishwest and the government about doing projects what we want to achieve and do in the long run....

Demersal fishing is something we have spoken about  and want to heavily invest in....as this is the most vulnerable species and having endemic species in the mix makes it vital.

Our  big vision is to get demersals the same love as the snapper guardians with breading them and farming them onshore, releasing juveniles into the wild, and also growing some for market. So restaurants ect ect…this will releave fishing pressure  on wild caught fish.

We understand how you may be hesitant to donating frames as it seems it may be detrimental you our fishing freedoms and we agree with you to a point

we do need the science... we need it for things like the snapper fishery, as the released fish from guardians which have a blue dye on the otoliths that will be almost sized now....this is how they will identify if the program is working and how to make sure money getting best bang for buck 

push the government to spend more money on research and science to make more informed decisions. Not just the half arsed ones they do with sharks.
Ideally independent science will be best but who's got the resources for that....lhopefully in future but atm we have to work with what we've got, and keep the pressure on.

they have a huge surplus and are totally in power it's time for us to all speak up and be heard.

what's coming next is people saying how cruel fishing is and We will totally be banned. That's what's starting to happen over east.


We will do what we can to help stop this. If it's true 

 

Regards Dan 


 

 

 

 

 


 

 

rob90's picture

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There is only soo far the

Thu, 2021-10-21 19:28

There is only soo far the government can push us fishos before the majority say f the system and do what we want destroying all the work done. I for one will admit that if the weather is good and I can get the yak out to get my 1 dhu and 1 pink but we're in some greenie induced 6month ban in May. I sure as shit won't be sleeping in.

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So much opinion so little facts

Fri, 2021-10-22 09:00

just briefly. Fisheries estimate 50% mortality rate on dhuies. That’s not zero. The problem with Vic dorys attitude is that if you believe they all die you are prob not treating them well. Treated well survival rate would be higher. Breeding demersals prob not the answer. I doubt snapper guardians has produced any stock. Prob cormorant food mostly. I hope I’m wrong. I’m not usually though. That sounds arrogant. But this whole situation for 20 years has been like watching 2 trains heading towards each other and nobody listening. I’ve got a pandora complex these days. Anyway... 

Pete F's picture

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The fishing for demersals

Fri, 2021-10-22 17:01

The fishing for demersals really needs to be considered fishing for meat not sport. Get two fish the most effective way at reducing mortalities to undersize, keep the first two legal fish no matter the size or species. Catch your dhu move off the structure and drift for baldies / pinkies.

A lot of people seem to think they have organized a day off and spent a lot of $ on fuel etc to get where they are so want to fish all day and entertain their mates making sure they come home with a big bag of fillets. Some people i have spoken to at the beach brag about catching dhu all day in 80m of water, it's just not on any more. 

The reality is a 5 month ban makes the most sense at increasing the stock levels while people can't get the message. Reducing bag limits etc makes no difference if people are still on the water releasing fish. If the mind set can be changed hopefully we can go back to a longer season, but the message has been out there for years and seems to not sink in.

I am always banging on about this and the standard answer is 'I know what i am doing my fish survive' reality is no one has any idea what happens to their released fish once sent back down. 

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 Cheers

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Yep 

Sat, 2021-10-23 09:09

Yep 

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 Yes this is true,Definitely

Sat, 2021-10-23 12:02

 Yes this is true,

Definitely not sports fish and catching for a food only...

the only problem we see is the potential by catch  and release issue is why we see 2 dhu per person with boat limit of  maybe 4?  should be implemented

and also the fact that people upgrade because they don't want a 550mm dhu they want that horse   This will maybe entice those people to keep that fish rather than releasing it because they would be happy with with a couple smaller models than just  the big one   

take the 1st 2 fish you catch per person  would be better than potentially releasing by catch 

There should be another way instead of more lockouts because of people who don't understand the damage they potentially could be doing. 

more education  to those who don't understand the issues of sport fishing demersals .... (because we don't see any of that)

and using information provided by fisherman to manage and maintain it would be a good start 

 

those doubting the snapper guardians... They should be not far of size. in the next year or so they will be. So maybe donate your frames and  help out so we can see if the communities  money going to the right causes or if things need to change..

 

 

little johnny's picture

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Depends how you bring them up

Fri, 2021-10-22 18:55

Every time I hook a fish I call it . Only ones I can’t is queenie and whiskery shark . They get me every time . If you have your dhues ( move ground ect) and you think you have dhue on again . I go very slow . Prior to it floating out put rod in rod holder for a drink or smoke . Let them sit for 5. They always swim from up top . If you need release led there fucked. To be honest I don’t know . Slow and steady, and stops seems to work . Give them deco . I have no scientific proof of it . But makes sense . They where thinking 12 month ban really . As if COVID hasn’t fucked everything up as it is . So let’s shut down all privately owned shops ( tackle)

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 Doesn't help the cause when

Fri, 2021-10-22 20:13

 Doesn't help the cause when you have people like Tackle West promoting catch and release of demersals on their YouTube page. People watch that and think that is the normal and ok.

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 While I'm open minded about

Sun, 2021-10-24 10:15

 While I'm open minded about a longer closed season for demersal being initiated, I'm not sure what good it will do. People will sit it out, then go back to the same practices. If a significant number of anglers continue with the practice of upgrading fish we're really not achieving a great deal. I think a huge shift in attitude is what's needed. There's no way you can police upgrading through legislation alone.

While my comments apply to all demersals they're more related to Dhuies. I haven't caught an undersize baldy for ages, haven't caught a Queen Snapper for many years, and find pinkies seem to release easily. Unfortuneately,I've become something of a specialist in catching just undersized Dhuies in recent years. I'm very careful bringing them up and sending them back down but I know not all of them will survive the resultant barotrauma. In addition there's the apparent increase in shark numbers which probably further decreases survivability. If the size limit was removed I would be happy with a 480mm fish, or better yet two. That gives me two demersals and I can bugger off and try for other species. Arguments based on the money you've spent on bait and fuel and investment in your boat and time to justify catch and release until you get a big fish are unsustainable.   

There is another angle to this as well with the increase in spearfishing. Please note I'm not having a crack at spearos; they have every right to take fish (Even if they do get eaten in the process!). Its an activity that allows the participants to be very selective in the size of fish they shoot. This MAY account for the greater proportion of smaller fish. I'd be interested to hear spearos opinions on this based on their observations. 

little johnny's picture

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Not a big fan off straight hook

Sun, 2021-10-24 21:31

Blood is fluorescent green when you hit fish. From what I’ve seen under water Size wise they don’t shoot unless they are good size . You can tell if there worth hitting ( other fish around,crays ect) you can gauge them . When dhue fishing if a dhue is 510 or under I let go . Not through greed hoping to get bigger ,They shrink in cold water ( ice slurry) . Fact, so maybe taking min size of them will make a difference .

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 Just need to evolve our

Sun, 2021-10-24 23:33

 Just need to evolve our tackle,  any links to easy fertiliser erghh berly bombs.  Haha just joking.! 

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Anywhere anytime