ETEC water in fuel
Hi everyone,
Just thought I'd ask the question whether anyone has ever had issues with water in their fuel on an ETEC, and what they did to remedy it?
Background: I live in an area where I'm quite happy that I have a dog in my yard when I'm not at home.
My boat lives in my backyard locked behind gates. On Saturday, I hooked up the boat, fueled it up in the afternoon, and parked the ute/boat out the front of my house ready for a 5:00 take off. That night, my sensor light goes off, and I wake up, look outside, but can't see anyone near the boat, so I sort of dismiss it. In the morning, I notice that the fuel cap has been taken off the boat, and I figure someone has siphoned the fuel (its happened with my car before). I grabbed a jerry can, and poured some fuel in, and it was all full. I figured they couldn't get it due to the long fill hose, and awkward angle it would be connected to the tank, making siphoning difficult.
I launched the boat, took off, and maybe 1km from the ramp, still in the greater bunbury harbour area, the iCommand unit starts going off, giving alarms about water in the fuel, and then stalls out. I tried clearing the fuel filter, flushing the line, etc... No joy. I had to get towed back to the ramp buy 4 guys in a little 430 runabout with a 50 hp yamaha on the back (thanks again, guys, if you're members).
I'm now thinking that maybe whoever might have tried to siphon my fuel got frustrated when the couldn't get the fuel, and then out of spite, poured their drink/pissed in the fuel tank. If that's the case, I'm really dissapointed in humanity as a whole.
I'm going to take it into the the ETEC dealer and see if they can point out some other cause for this alarm that I mightn't have considered. I was just seeing if anyone else had an experience with this/ideas about it.
Thanks, guys.
dodgy
Posts: 4563
Date Joined: 01/02/10
Water in an etec is very bad
Water in an etec is very bad for the injectors and injector failure is an expensive exercise. I would clean the tank and all lines extremely thoroughly.
How much was in the water separator?
Does anyone know where the love of god goes, when the waves turn the minutes to hours?
Comrad
Posts: 109
Date Joined: 17/07/14
Thanks for the reply. I
Thanks for the reply.
I couldn't really see any water in the seperator, though its possible that I didn't know what to look for. I've never mixed water and fuel before. In saying that, I don't know what the water to fuel ratio could be. It's a 100 litre tank which I had just filled up untill it came out of the overflow. I can't see how anyone could put 2 litres at max put into it, so a 2% ratio might have been hard to see in the separator.
I can get how I would flush the lines (I assume I could stop just before going into the engine cowl), but, how to I clean the tank out, given that its under a sealed deck. Any suggestions there?
Gray
Posts: 140
Date Joined: 10/02/11
I don't know about the
I don't know about the outboard but I had water in my fuel last year and had the same problem, she stalled out.
We kept on emptying the fuel separator bowl until there was just fuel, then being an old two stroke with bugger all sensors we got back to the ramp.
Got my mechanic out and being an underfloor fuel tank he got us to put metho in the tank (Can't remember the ratio) when we fuel up. Never had a drama.
Mine was just caused by condensation and lack of use.
Comrad
Posts: 109
Date Joined: 17/07/14
That's handy to know about
That's handy to know about the methanol, it makes sense since its hydroscopic. I assume you had to completely drain the tank first, and start with new fuel as opposed to just adding methanol to an already full tank? Also how many times did you need to use methanol when you fueled up forever after?
Gray
Posts: 140
Date Joined: 10/02/11
Sorry should have said
Sorry should have said metholated spirits
Even when draining tank is impossible to get every last drop out and as water is heavier and going to sit in bottom of tank there is more than likely going to still be some in there so used metho to be sure.
We did it a few times as we were still getting water in the bowl. And it definitely mixes with the water, when we emptied the bowl could smell the metho
I don't know if this is a good idea with the newer motors but certainly worked for me
aaasnapper
Posts: 218
Date Joined: 15/01/10
Ratio
Water does not mix with fuel, so ratio's don't matter, as it will be 100% water. When you flushed the line and filter, did you notice any water?
null
Rob H
Posts: 5745
Date Joined: 18/01/12
thats not quite true, for
thats not quite true, for the same reason ethanol fuel is such a hassle in boats.
If you drain the fuel as low as possible, put meths or similar in at a strong enough ratio the water will amalgamate with fuel and burn off.
Similarly with E10 fuel, the danger is the same in reverse.
Water will mix with ethanol based fuel up to a certain point, whereupon the ethanol component drops out and seperates from the mineral fuel leaving your outboard running on 100% ethanol-for a little while
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
JohnF
Posts: 2836
Date Joined: 07/07/10
The biggest issue with etecs
The biggest issue with etecs is water in fuel. The direct injection injectors are much funkier than the standard EFI fuel injectors used ion 4 strokes and you don't want ANY water near them.
Boston Whaler 235 Conquest......getting the flogging it was built for.
lame
Posts: 315
Date Joined: 20/01/10
water in fuel
We got water in fuel from the pre-mix at Gateway the servo just out of bunbury few years back , contacted the servo who acknowledged the problem ,took it to Millard with the servo sorting out the bill
lastcast
Posts: 215
Date Joined: 04/04/13
methanol vs metho
Mate
Hes referring to metholated spirits not methanol.
Metholated spirits will mix with fuel and water so allows you to get the water out
which would otherwise separate and sink.
You dont want to add methanol thats a bad idea.
ranmar850
Posts: 2702
Date Joined: 12/08/12
Don't put methanol in it, thats' not what he meant!
That's handy to know about the methanol, " When he said metho, he was referring to common old methylated spirits. Adding this to fuel which has a small amount of water contamination will allow the water to mix with the metho and be burnt off. Certainly not a fix for major water contamination, but very useful to get rid of a small amount which may be present due to condensation.
I wouldn't put methanol, or any fuel containing methanol, through any outboard. Horrible crap.
Edit-beaten to it. On the subject of your water separator, if you have the clear bowl type, the water will sit in the bottom and be quite apparent.
dodgy
Posts: 4563
Date Joined: 01/02/10
I would be very hesitant to
I would be very hesitant to put metho in before contacting your Etec specialist.
Does anyone know where the love of god goes, when the waves turn the minutes to hours?
lastcast
Posts: 215
Date Joined: 04/04/13
a better idea
If you can jack the boat right up and tilt it so that all the water
In the tank collects in one corner. Then use a weighted narrow airhose
To siphon from that corner. Also blow out the lines to take out
Any water in there. Clean the separation filter and check it as it comes through.
If theres still water collecting then add some metho, then use a hand pump
To completely drain the tank into jerry cans. Then use it up in your lawnmower.
Starbug
Posts: 563
Date Joined: 27/08/09
If your fuel has been
If your fuel has been tampered with, any repair may be covered by insurance. So before you start emptying and cleaning tanks get your boat/motor checked out by an authorised repair shop.
NORUN NOFUN
Posts: 1019
Date Joined: 15/08/11
If your water problem is
If your water problem is ongoing, check the breather ( where ever it is located ) as this is another entry point for fresh and salt water.
If your water problem is as bad as you say, get it too the outboard techs to be sorted, injectors are expensive.
lame
Posts: 315
Date Joined: 20/01/10
BCF
Would recommended specialist but think you can get some liquid from BCF that can be used for a tank with water in it
duges66
Posts: 138
Date Joined: 07/03/12
May not apply in this case
May not apply in this case but worth a read
http://www.sportsfish.com.au/pages/boating/boating-tips/evinrude_e10_fuels.html
There's 3 kinds of people in this world, those who can count and those that can't.
Comrad
Posts: 109
Date Joined: 17/07/14
Thanks for all the replies
Thanks for all the replies guys.
I've booked it in to have it looked at on Thursday. I'm not adverse to tinkering with engines, but, when it comes to reliabilty when I'm 30nm off shore, I'm going to put it to an expert.
I take everyone's point about the additives to remove water from the fuel. I should clarify, I knew that Gray meant methylated spirits, I just meant that the methanol in the metho has a greater hydroscopic property than the ethanol. I wouldn't put straight methanol in the tank, it'd be to harsh on the piston rings.
As I was alluding to about the ratio of fuel to water, I wasn't suggesting that they would mix, I just meant that if there was 2 litres put into the tank the night before, then its only 2% water. This would then have to be sucked up by the fuel intake line, and then put into the fuel water seperator, so, if you take 2% of the roughtly 200 mL or so in the separator, there would only be 4 ml of water, assuming a uniform distribution of fluids. 4mL might be hard to see sitting on top of the fuel in the filter, especially rocking around in the boat. That's all I meant.
I suppose one of my main issues is that I don't know how the engine management system can detect water in the fuel. I don't know the nature of the sensor. Can anyone fill me in?
dodgy
Posts: 4563
Date Joined: 01/02/10
I believe the sensor measures
I believe the sensor measures the electrical resistance of the fuel. The presence of water changes the measurable resistance.
Does anyone know where the love of god goes, when the waves turn the minutes to hours?
DTrain
Posts: 486
Date Joined: 10/02/12
It wouldn't be a uniform
It wouldn't be a uniform distrubution of fluids though because the water doesn't mix with fuel and is also heavier than fuel. So all the water would pool on the bottom of the tank. If the pickup is at the bottom of the tank the water would get sucked out first before any fuel. So if your separator is only 200 ml and you had 2L of water the separator would fill up and then start letting water through to the injectors.
The water in fuel sensor is basically 2 electrodes that measure the resistance between them. The resistance of water is different to the resistance of fuel so that triggers the alarm. On my Etec the sensor sits inside the spin on fuel filter that is under the engine cowl. It is supposed to kick in when the filter is about a third full of water.
lame
Posts: 315
Date Joined: 20/01/10
although it doesnt mix
When I got a dose of it in my 2 stroke the fuel was milky whitish
cruzy111
Posts: 274
Date Joined: 08/10/13
Have you checked the little
Have you checked the little filter in the vst on the motor. There are some you tube vids that show you how to clean it. If it clogs up alarms go off and motor stalls. Just google " vst filter etec" and some you tube vids should come up. It takes a lot of water to get into your motor. Do you have a bowl on your seperator filter? If you drain it into a glass jar you should see water at the bottom. If you had that much water there will still be some in the tank.
bradz
Posts: 693
Date Joined: 29/10/07
Insurance
If you beleive the water has entered as the result of an "event" then its probably covered by insurance.
When I had my Optimax outboard and sea water go in through a cross-threaded fuel cap it was covered by insurance. All $10,000 worth.
Club Marine came to the party on that occasion. Perhaps give your insurer a call sooner rather than later.
I did then the best that I knew how. When I knew better, I did better.
Bruce
Posts: 527
Date Joined: 11/04/12
Don't really have any input
Don't really have any input on the topic but what I will say is definetly give your insurance mob a call. I had water enter my fuel lines and tank on a gnarly day which resulted in a tow in and $800 of repairs. I read the policy doco's that come when you get insurance and initially it seemed they wouldn't cover the damage but in the end they did which only cost me the $100 excess.
Hope you get it sorted mate.
Perry Home
Posts: 434
Date Joined: 07/10/10
Stabil
The product referred to is Stabil... promoted in various Ifish episodes. The first thing is to get to the dealer... after checking the vst filter. Was going to suggest adding metho to the fuel but given the fact that the mtr is high tech I'd be having a conversation with yr nsurer. ..mentioning possible/ probable vandalism and then receiving the thumbs up head to Etec Dealer at least in the knowledge that the insurer has yr back $ wise.
RANT - I hate the fact that lowlifes think that coz you have a boat that yr rich and can afford to pay for their wanton vandalism to yr possessions. Enough said on that though... it's about the fish. .. not the human crayfish. :-)
holth
Posts: 812
Date Joined: 09/10/06
Whos your insurer. If its
Whos your insurer. If its club marine take it to chivers (Etec dealer) . There a platinum club dealer. They can fix the issue and advise whether it can be done through insurance. Then they will handle the whole process. Thats the benifits of being with club marine if you are.
Also anyone with an Etec should join the etecownersgroup.com there a world wide forum on all things etec. Plenty of info there.
Comrad
Posts: 109
Date Joined: 17/07/14
Thanks for all the input
Thanks for all the input everyone.
As I said before, I've got it booked into the dealer on Thursday, I located the VST filter and secondary fuel water separator under the engine cowl, and I was going to take them off and inspect them, but, I was hesistant to alter the state of the engine, which might affect the mechanic's diagnosis - I dont want them to call it for something else and charge me for something because they didn't see the water levels in the separator after I'd cleaned it out, etc...
Going through that etecownersgroup website did make me a little nervous though, given the people suggesting that there might be an immediate problem given the chance of corrosion to the injectors. I was tempted to disconnect the fuel lines and remove the spark plugs to try to force the starter motor to blow out any residual water but again, I didn't want to throw off the diagnosis by the mechanic. I'm hoping that there shouldn't be a noticable degrade of condition in the 2 days it'll take to get it looked at.
NORUN NOFUN
Posts: 1019
Date Joined: 15/08/11
ETEC spark plugs - always be
ETEC spark plugs - always be careful when removing the spark plugs as they are orientation specific, and never clean with a wire brush as you will damage the plugs also.