disapointed in the fisheries
i was down at the rocko jetty last night getting some photos for a up and coming article catching small salmon trout on lures and releasing them as they were about 15 to 20cm long tiny things after getting some nice shots i was walking around having a peek in some buckets and saw a couple of people with them in their buckets i took some pics and told the guy that they were undersized he said they where for bait and for me to mind my own business i then reconised him from this forum but i wont name and shame you unless i see you doing it again i made a call to fish watch and they told me tell him the size and bag limit and then leave him alone not good enough i say theirs 10 or so fish that wont grow up and be the great fish that they are 10 minuets later i saw he was still catching them but he wasn't putting them in his bucket he was getting a small kid of about 6 to do it very sad now this kid will have the idea in his head to keep everything he catches very sad i left shortly after so god knows how many he had
sorry for the gripe but something had to be said
lox ambassador
buschy
Posts: 626
Date Joined: 27/11/09
If Fisheries are not in a
If Fisheries are not in a position to get someone down there, then we are the only ones that make a difference. Looks like you have done all you can. Unfortunately you cannot change the attitude of small minded ignorant people.
Personally, I'd mention the name. I'd like to hear what the person has to say for himself.
Adam Gallash
Posts: 15665
Date Joined: 29/11/05
fisheries
Just before you go off at fisheries, you need to consider it was last night, as in, people who are in the job have lives too. The people that are on night shift have 200kms of Perth coast to cover and probably have ten fishwatch calls to attend to and if your going to get pissed at anyone, blame the government for not funding more officers so they could attend your call. As for the name and shame, hmmm, undecided on that one but I would be interested to see what name came up.....
Site Admin - Just ask if you need assistance
Paul G
Posts: 5215
Date Joined: 12/12/07
Well its a hard one to name
Well its a hard one to name someone on the site we know.But if he is from the a forum , and he was doing the wrong thing ,and he does know better .Then im afraid he is a knob, bait or not size limits are there for a reason, If you know this guy ring the fisheries and get them to pay him a visit , would be interesting what else is in the freezer.
Active Gyp-Rok solutions ,Residential and commercial ceilings and walls
Paully
Posts: 3246
Date Joined: 15/08/09
Absolutely Agree Ads
I think most of us on here would be interested to see what name came up for that.
Andy Mac
Posts: 4778
Date Joined: 03/02/06
If it was salmon trout
Did the guy know the difference between them and herring?
Cheers
Andy Mac (Fishwrecked Reeltime Editor & Forum Moderator)
Youngest member of the Fishwrecked Old Farts Club
Andy Mac
Posts: 4778
Date Joined: 03/02/06
Maybe he should look here
http://www.fish.wa.gov.au/docs/pub/SalmonHerringID/Salmon%20and%20Herring%20ID.pdf
Cheers
Andy Mac (Fishwrecked Reeltime Editor & Forum Moderator)
Youngest member of the Fishwrecked Old Farts Club
SaintAsh
Posts: 115
Date Joined: 16/11/09
bait
using for bait isn't an excuse.. your not alone in your frustrations, if there is salmon trout around there should be herring around to use as bait..
dissapointing, but what more can we do.. I'm abit with buschy, let him defend himself, maybe there is some weird way he can justify his blatent disreguard for rules and regulations..for all we know, he may be above the law?
nicko1
Posts: 7
Date Joined: 06/04/09
fish for the future
I fish those waters regularly and i despise people taking undersize fish from there or anywhere else for that matter it sux, these people dont support the whole fish for the future practice, i reckon name em and shame em...
JakeB
Posts: 262
Date Joined: 12/12/09
Name and shame for sure
Name and shame for sure mate, ive been fishing those jettys for 11 years and anyone that disregards the rules isnt welcome down there in my opinion.. i saw the same thing the other night except with very small tailor being used as bait... and i agree as far as lack of government funding goes, theres simply not enough policing of the size/bag limits... thats why these idiots do what they do..9 times out of 10 they are gonna get away with it. its a big problem.....and really sucks..
Hobie-Wan
Posts: 119
Date Joined: 04/10/08
Name and shame them for sure!
Name and shame the guy for sure (only if you are sure you know who it is).
HuggyB
Posts: 2515
Date Joined: 03/08/08
if you do
name and shame, be sure of whom you are accusing and of what you are accusing them off. Can get nasty as you are publicly defaming said person and there could be legal consequences.
The Terrorist - coming to a fishing spot near you.........
Auslobster
Posts: 1901
Date Joined: 03/05/08
Just PM the jerk...
...if he's on this forum. And if he becomes abusive, report him to the mods.
If he thought he was catching herring, he probably wouldv'e used that for an excuse instead of being bait. Knew EXACTLY what he was doing.
If you're reading this, mate, hope you feel real good about yourself. And what a smooth move, getting a little kid to put illegal fish in your bucket. How does it feel to be an absolute dropkick?
ody
Posts: 581
Date Joined: 30/12/06
Hi Ya, post his
Hi Ya,
post his picture
Cheers.
Dale
Posts: 7930
Date Joined: 13/09/05
NAME & SHAME, I dont care
NAME & SHAME, I dont care what else he thinks, these people need to be pulled into place.Even if he thought he was catching herring, their still undersize. We all fish for the future, lets squeeze out the bad apples.
Cheers
Dale
"Just because you are a Character, Doesn't mean you have Character."
Mr Wolf
Shorty
Posts: 1549
Date Joined: 10/05/08
Can we arrest folks we see
Can we arrest folks we see taking undersize fish ? Its a crime isn't it ?
(citizens arrest)
ody
Posts: 581
Date Joined: 30/12/06
Hi Ya, Be exceedingly
Hi Ya,
Be exceedingly careful when and how you perform a citizens arrest. You could actually be charged with deprivation of liberty.
I wouldn't attempt it.
Cheers.
AbooAyesha
Posts: 38
Date Joined: 02/12/08
From my understanding of WA
From my understanding of WA law, any citizen can arrest another if they commit an imprisonable offence. But you had best be very sure of yourself, as you can get yourself in a great deal of trouble in regards to deprivation of liberty. When I started security our lecturer mentioned that a security officer handcuffed some (I think) hare krishna practitioners in a shopping centre at the behest of the manager. He went to prison. I may be able to find the relevant legislation somewhere. I will edit, if so.
(P.S. Not legal advice)
Shorty
Posts: 1549
Date Joined: 10/05/08
Yeah maybe you are
Yeah maybe you are right,,just tip their buckets out if they are not to big,,,
Nobodys been charged with letting fish go that i know of ,,lol
Faulkner Family
Posts: 18332
Date Joined: 11/03/08
i think the guy would know
i think the guy would know who he is and hope he gets a guilty concience about this, there is no excuse for taking u/size fish for any reason.not worth taking thiongs in your own hands , as mentioned , it can get nasty
RUSS and SANDY. A family that fishes together stays together
Lastchance
Posts: 1275
Date Joined: 02/02/09
Too small/too many
This sort of act goes hand in hand with an increasing practice up here by some individuals who take their kids/missus out (who dont fish) for the sole purpose of doubling/trippling their catch limit. Gives me the shits.
Freo_Boi
Posts: 266
Date Joined: 23/02/10
Could get real nasty!!
If they fish dirty.they may fight dirty.
Seeing how every one fishing packs a knife.
Just try and be diplomatic and ring fisheries its all you can legally do..
It makes you sick seeing this kind of thing happening,but its a constant thing...
Like with Tailor,if ppl let even the sized ones go and just kept enough for dinner that night imagine how awesome it would be Metro..be like salmon season every summer..
Mate fresh herring tastes better than tailor but thats just my opinion wish everybody shared it.
And i could go catch 1-2kg tailor from South beach every summer again..
Ganged
Posts: 410
Date Joined: 16/02/09
Next time pretend to trip
Next time pretend to trip and kinck the bucket into the water oops ! worked for a mate if mine.
Still learning
Riaz
joe amato
Posts: 731
Date Joined: 21/12/08
two fisheries officers were useless the other night a disgrace
i was at the ammo jetty the other night,and two fisheries officers came down, heaps of people were using 6 baitchasers at a time catching scalies, undersize skippys. i questioned the fisheries officers by asking them "excuse me what is the legal amount of hooks to use? is it 3 hooks per rig or 1 set of gangs?" the officers agreed with me, but didnt even say nothing to these people, just turned a blind eye to what was going on, they didnt even caution these illegal fishermen, kids and their partners. these two fisheries officers are an absolute disgrace and a joke, how on earth are people going to fish for the future, with useless fisheries officers like these two officers not doing their job
Rod P
Posts: 725
Date Joined: 20/05/08
Ring Fisheries and ask them
Ring Fisheries and ask them for a please explain. They will know who the officers were and maybe something will come if this. If they know people are watching them maybe just maybe then next time they'll do there job.
Rod
saltatrix
Posts: 1081
Date Joined: 30/03/08
Its possibly too much
Its possibly too much paperwork with a good chance theyll be given a warning.
I think many people would be happy to see a $100 on the spot fine rather than bogging down the courts with people who would be given a slap on the hand?
Angling tourism is worth $10 billion to the Australian economy - 90000 jobs; more than any sport; spread the word
joe amato
Posts: 731
Date Joined: 21/12/08
agree saltatrix
maybe an on the spot fine would be better,like the littering fine but make it a 100 dollars first offence and if it ends up in court 200 dollars per 100 grams of fish illegally caught and kept,imagine how many illegal fishers would think twice,also need a hard ass judge and jury...........................................................
roberta
Posts: 2773
Date Joined: 08/07/08
Hmmm yes delicate
situation, think you said you took photos Skrewloose, could send them the Fisheries Web site, I'd name and shame but through Adam, then leave it up to Adam and the moderators to deal with him....... huggybear is right legal nightmare if you name and shame on a public forum. As we have all seen some nasty comments regarding people and retaliations on here. But thank goodness the moderators have been quick in dealing with the situation's
Can't believe the Fisheries not acting on the illegal amount of rods/hooks out. We had friends fishing with us for whiting and they had 6 hooks on the line, old fart said to them if you are fishing in our boat, two hooks are legal not 6.
Ginger Tablets Rock
salm0n hunter
Posts: 99
Date Joined: 10/03/07
meh
i give up ? not even going to worry about it any more they can just do what ever the @@@@ they want cant be policed from what i can gather.
example 25,000 marron licences were handed out just last season that is $600,000 worth of licences. now the marron season went for 28 days roughly um answers???? my father has been marroning for 34 years around bunbury through to windy and has seen a fisheries inspector once. alarm bells are ringing call me young dumb but where does all that go? and not having a go at fisheries either because im sure they are doing a great job
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c88DeKDBRjs salmon season last year 2009
stretch60
Posts: 3
Date Joined: 13/02/10
legal position
naming and shaming is only a criminal defamation if it is published or broadcasted and the person who does it knows the information to be false, in this case if he knows the information is correct I don't see how he can be accused of defaming someone
fish feeder rarely a fish catcher
dannyg
Posts: 77
Date Joined: 28/01/10
legal position
stretch60, you are correct within reason.
s345 of the Criminal Code reads as follows:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Criminal Defamation:
(1) A person who, without lawful excuse, publishes matter defamatory of another living person (the victim) -
(a) knowing the matter to be false or without having regard to whether the matter is true or false; and
(b) intending to cause serious harm to the victim or any other person or without having regard to whether such harm is caused,
is guilt of a crime and is liable to imprisonment for 3 years.
Summary conviction penalty: imprisonment for 12 months and a fine of $12 000
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Although this is only half the matter, as criminal defamation is between the state and the alleged accused.
There is also the law of torts to be considered which deals with the alleged plaintiff and the alleged defendant. I personally would be more afraid of this as the damages paid out can be HUGE as their intention is to rectify the situation for the defamed to the extent as to a point as if it never happened.
as per ConsolidatedTrust Co. Ltd v Browne (1948) 49 SR (NSW) 86 @ 88, the plaintiff is required to establish three elements of a defamation action, namely:
1) that the matter was defamatory
2) that the matter referred to (identified) the plaintiff
3) that the matter was published to a person other than the plaintiff.
For a matter to be defamatory, imputations (accusations) must be identified and will be held as defamatory where reasonable people can identify the imputation as conveying a defamatory meaning therefore:
1) making ordinary people think less of the alleged defamed person
2) causing people to shun or ridicule the alleged defamed
3) causing the alleged defamed to be excluded from society
(see Chakravarti v Advertiser Newspapers Ltd, Hawke v Tamworth Newspapers)
Defences:
The defences that one could have if they were in the situation of being accused of defaming another are:
1; Justification:
the defendant is not considered liable if they can establish that the imputations contained in the matter are substantially true.
2: Fair comment/honest opinion:
the defendant will need to establish that:
a) the matter was a statement of opinion not a statement of fact
b) the opinion was honestly held
c) the opinion is based on true facts
d) the commend is based on matters of public interest
Damages:
compensatory damages for the basis of a defamation act. Under the uniform laws the maximum amount of damages is $250,000.
NOTE TO SELF: BE VERYCAREFUL AND DONT EVEN SKIRT THE ISSUE OF DEFAMATION ON ANY INTERNET FORUM....IT IS PLAYING WITH FIRE.
Adam Gallash
Posts: 15665
Date Joined: 29/11/05
Cyber poison-penner hunted down and sued
Just be careful guys, this is a recent case and I'm sure we will see more of these arising soon and I would hate it to happen to any of our members.
Also Joe, the legislation doesn't allow for that, to do a fine you have to interview the person and take statements, which involves a lot of work!! If you knew the system, then you wouldn't be making those comments, but it seems to be a general thing for people to do as its not their area of expertise and they don't really understand all thats involved in a getting a prosecution, because it all has to be water tight if it goes to court etc etc.
http://www.smh.com.au/technology/technology-news/cyber-poisonpenner-hunted-down-and-sued-20100224-p3n7.html
Cyber poison-penner hunted down and sued
TONY WRIGHT
February 25, 2010
Comments 18
LEGAL counsel Martin Bennett has a short message for those who allow themselves to attack reputations over the internet, imagining they are safe under the cloak of anonymity. ''You can be hunted down and found,'' he said yesterday.
Mr Bennett has done just that for a Perth client, winning $30,000 in damages and costs, an apology, and undertakings from a Colac man that he won't post any more defamatory comments.
The hunt for the man's true identity proved the stuff of private detective novels updated into the age of blogs.
It is, Mr Bennett said, one of a very few such actions in Australia against the author of anonymous postings on an internet forum. He predicts it is the tip of a legal iceberg.
''There has been an increasing proliferation of internet chat sites where people feel free to hide their identities and make defamatory comments about companies and their executives and directors,'' he said in a statement released after the case in the Supreme Court of Western Australia was resolved.
The action against Graeme Gladman began after highly uncomplimentary comments appeared last November under pseudonyms on the HotCopper website, a stockmarket forum.
The postings related to technology security company Datamotion Asia Pacific Ltd and its Perth-based chairman and managing director, Ronald Moir. One posting appeared under the pseudonym of ''witch''.
Datamotion and Mr Moir hired Mr Bennett to launch defamation proceedings. But first Mr Bennett had to track down ''witch''. He asked HotCopper to reveal the identity of the person registered under that pseudonym, plus two others under different pseudonyms, but HotCopper refused.
Mr Bennett then took court action, forcing HotCopper to turn over its files. ''Unfortunately, the registered membership name appeared to be false,'' he said. ''It turned out to be attached to an escort service in Geelong.''
But Mr Bennett was not prepared to concede the trail was cold. He told The Age he did not wish to reveal the details of his next detective steps, but the upshot was a defamation action against Mr Gladman alleging that, as a result of his postings, Datamotion and Mr Moir had been ''brought into hatred, contempt and ridicule and thereby suffered damage''.
It was resolved last week, with Mr Gladman agreeing to pay damages totalling $20,000, taxed legal costs of $10,000, and to provide apologies and undertakings not to publish further defamatory postings.
Mr Bennett has launched two more cases. Both are pending before the WA Supreme Court.
Site Admin - Just ask if you need assistance
joe amato
Posts: 731
Date Joined: 21/12/08
ok adam
ok adam,yes it does take alot of paperwork,but i dont understand why these two fisheries officers just turned a blind eye,after i pointed the three hooks per fishing rig or one set of gang hooks,i told these two fisheries officers in person on the ammo jetty,so can you understand my frustration adam,i have also witnessed an old lady,taking three buckets of crabs in 1 night,by having her husband come down to pick up 1 bucket of crabs,and swapping it for an empty bucket every couple of hours,my point was why did the two fisheries officers turn a blind eye,not even a caution,if i had the right education to be a fisheries officer,i would give out a caution ,and would take down a name of illegal fishers,and give them a fine,the next time i caught the offender
roberta
Posts: 2773
Date Joined: 08/07/08
Joe we saw the same thing from
the boat just right of the ammo jetty, we in the boat crabbing, getting some, noticed a 36' boat, two on board also crabbing (in our spot grrrr but they were there first) then one of them got in their tender, went to the shore off loaded the caught crabs to a woman (watching in binoculars,) then come back to the their boat and started crabbing all over again. We got 12 nice big crabs and thought that was enough and headed home, mean while this 36' boat was still crabbing. If we see them do it this year, we'll be taking down details/photos as well and letting fisheries now.
Ginger Tablets Rock
Adam Gallash
Posts: 15665
Date Joined: 29/11/05
education
Its not about the education Joe, its about the protocol you have to follow. If theres an offence been committed then they will act, well the ones I know will, I can't speak for the state dept.
You have to realise they have 200km of coastline to patrol and can't be everywhere at one time, the fact that someone had an extra 3 hooks on their line and have a few undersize fish compared to a report that they got of a commercial with 50 undersize crays being sold on the black market, or, who knows. The fact that you don't know what else they have going on and are still willing to bag them, is pretty sad IMO, you need to consider the bigger picture and that a few undersize fish is a very small consideration compared to other offences going on out there. Think about the wetliners taking over their catch limits (huge amounts of hooks), cray guys with excess pots or crays, marroner's taking out of season or excess marron, the huge amount of crabs (think about that road block last month) fish being sold on the black market or any other variables.
Sure a few undersize fish being taken out every night does do damage, but when you consider that compared to other illegal activites going on, its just a drop in the ocean and when you have limited resources, you have to prioritise and unfortunately those priorities may not match your ideals of what they should be doing. Especially considering the amount of time it takes to interview someone, get every word they say incase they refute the fine, then it goes to court and if its not absolutely water tight then its not likely to end up in a fine for a 100 dollar fine. I think herring and tailor are cat 3 and cat 2 fish, also very small fines as a cost recovery method, which isn't the idea, but still, its one of those things, who do you get first, small time recs doing little damage vs big time pro's doing something serious. Maybe with some more resources (now being funded) a few officers can spend some time doing the basics to 'educate' the general public, not sure it will happen, but we will see.
Site Admin - Just ask if you need assistance
joe amato
Posts: 731
Date Joined: 21/12/08
ok adam
ok adam i realise this,what you have stated,but other words you are also condoning turning a blind eye to the situation, we can agree to disagree and this can go on forever,anyway thats all adam,
train
Posts: 102
Date Joined: 09/03/09
.
.
joe amato
Posts: 731
Date Joined: 21/12/08
ok train
ok train ,i cut my bait chaser rigs in half if they are the 6 hook 1 piece and tie separate fishing rigs,yes i know there is no limit on scalies,also if a rec recreational fisherman used 20 hooks or more that is a set line,i make every effort to fish fair.dont tell me every1 can use 6 baitchasers to catch scalies,when we all know 3 hooks per rig is the regulations,i also catch scalies for bait using only 3 baitchasers ,i regularly also release undersize skippy, as well,if i can get my limit with 3 hooks ,then i must be skilled on the art of getting bait,aswell as every1 who uses the same rigs i use,there are no excuses for using more than 3 baitchasers, 3 hooks or 1 set of gang hooks,thats why these regulations set by fisheries are there, myself and many like minded people like myself will abide to fish for the future
dannyg
Posts: 77
Date Joined: 28/01/10
joe
hi joe, i think that you are misreading the other peoples posts - from what i can see, train is not condoning the fact that people fish with 6 hooks - merely stating that it is a matter of efficiency for the fisheries officers - ie they can spend hours trying to explain to people about 6 hooks (to save some scalies) - or can spend the time more effectively stopping people from keeping undersized fish that are more in demand and in more danger.
On a positive note, I was fishing North Mole recently and fisheries came around and were very helpful, were checking peoples catch and were really doing their job well.
I think that it is all a lose lose situation (understaffed/not enough funding/ lack of fishing education), but complaining about the fisheries and not doing anything about it is also a waste of time. perhaps joining, and becoming a VFLO (Volunteer Fisheries Liaison Officer) could also help the problem?
just my 2 cents worth of common sense.