Rejected insurance claim

Hi

I recently hit a floating cray rope and unbeknown me at the time, the motor suffered substantial damage.

The drive shaft sheared in the driven gear but a sufficient length of splines remained intact and allowed me to continue boating on the day and subsequently until the service as detailed below.

I only discovered the damage when I started to do the 1100 hour service and dropped the leg to carry out the impeller replacement.

Once the leg was off it was immediately obvious that the shaft was damaged. The top of the shaft had sheared off and remained stuck in the driven gear in the powerhead.

I submitted a claim to Club Marine and was told to get a quote from a Marine Mechanic. This was not realistic as the powerhead had to be removed to ascertain the extent of the damage which in itself was 50% of the work so I decided to proceed with the repair.

I was extremely happy with the work which was done by a marine mechanic in Perths Northern suburbs and I submitted the final invoice to Club Marine for their response.

Unfortunately Club Marine have declined the claim for the following reasons (as submitted by their assessor) I personally find the finding totally unacceptable, unreasonable and unrealistic. They have decided the +- 25mm shaft failed as there was wear on the splines which allowed movement between the splines and the shaft. I find this an incredible assumption as in my opinion, the splines should have failed and not the shaft. I believe this was not a gradual failure as is being ascertained by Club Marine, but an instantaneous failure on impact with the cray rope. The sad fact is had the shaft failed below the splined area, I believe the claim would have been honoured as the boat would have been rendered unusable immediately leaving no doubt as to what had caused the failure.

I am asking for opinions as to the damage on the shaft and the views put forward by Club Marine and for any advice from anyone who might have had similar damage and a subsequent claim to their insurer. Be great if anyone with lots of metal experience / knowledge could comment

 

 

Thanks - Eric

____________________________________________________________________________

Don't spend all your money on beer, boats, and fishing. Save some to spend foolishly

Image Upload: 

sunshine's picture

Posts: 2407

Date Joined: 03/03/09

Can you pm me with your email address

Sat, 2022-10-22 21:10

 And if you or anyone knows who is involved in yet ANOTHER Club denial where a wheel bearing failed and the wheel flew of damaging the hull ( appeared on Facebook and see by a friend) 

They seen to be again making a habit of denying legitimate claims 

little johnny's picture

Posts: 5196

Date Joined: 04/12/11

I hit floating rope

Sat, 2022-10-22 22:37

Tied in floating lump. Done my bearing in big time ( gearbox) . Stuffed gearbox completely .bit unusual to do spline . No expert on matter . Insurance your with tried doing me over many years ago . Was with them for many many years (10 plus) no claims nothing . Made small claim , they almost doubled their premium following year . Didn’t happen .Been with SGIO ever since . Good luck

Posts: 138

Date Joined: 04/08/22

 Hey Eric, I'm hd mechanic

Sun, 2022-10-23 08:49

 Hey Eric, I'm hd mechanic and work with large machinery with shafts,pins,axels ect. From what I can see the splines apear to be substantially worn and dry and at 1100 hours it is has done some work.How ever has exessive spline wear happened prio or post the breakage is anyone guess.A lot of failures I see have started from a small fracture of some sort that over time works it's way through the metal causing weekness and at some point when a heavy load is applied you end up with it breaking. If you can persure a claim good on ya but unfortunately it looks to me that it's a pill you have to swallow mate.

Posts: 389

Date Joined: 17/07/07

i`m glad you said it first

Sun, 2022-10-23 20:45

 i was thinking the same thing. no wonder insurance premiums are so high

Posts: 5573

Date Joined: 18/01/12

 The mechanic who did the

Mon, 2022-10-24 07:35

 The mechanic who did the work, his opinion should hold the most sway.

Sunshine above is the one who can make a difference though.
It seems an odd place for the shaft to shear?
Was the broken off piece available for inspection?

If the snapped off piece had spline wear then it was obviously prior to shearing.

But also, anyone who takes an insurers first response as final is the insurers favourite client.

Pursue it, even if for a negotiated settlement

____________________________________________________________________________

 Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...

 

 

The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.

Everyone's just winging it.

 

straith's picture

Posts: 349

Date Joined: 25/11/13

club marine approved repairer?

Mon, 2022-10-24 10:07

 Hi mate ,

not sure who your mechanic is so disregard if hes already club marine approved, Id give Mick from marine masters a call and get him to inspect. He was a club marine approved repairer when i had a claim which made it a smooth process but also knows his stuff. He will be honest with you too whatever the verdict.

cheers and good luck

Swompa's picture

Posts: 3477

Date Joined: 14/10/12

 The work is already done,

Mon, 2022-10-24 18:15

 The work is already done, isn't it?

sea-kem's picture

Posts: 14329

Date Joined: 30/11/09

 Looks like a mongrel dog got

Tue, 2022-10-25 11:32

 Looks like a mongrel dog got hold of the end of that Eric lol

____________________________________________________________________________

Love the West!

Posts: 1047

Date Joined: 21/05/12

 i changed to RAc after some

Tue, 2022-10-25 11:37

 i changed to RAc after some very shit service from club marine

Ericl's picture

Posts: 433

Date Joined: 02/05/11

More info

Tue, 2022-10-25 14:53

Hi All, and thanks for the responses so far.
Bodgy 79, I firmly believe that the damage is a result of hitting the cray rope. I dont remember exactly how fast we were going, but I normally run the motor at around 4200 RPM, so a considerable amount of force would have been at play. The motor cut immediately on impact. (Never mentioned in the earlier post that the motor is a 250HP Suzuki
We checked everything out, lifted motor out and checked prop etc. No visible damage so dropped the motor back in and started back to the ramp. As I accelerated, there was initially an unusual noise (rumbling maybe) which stopped shortly after. I now believe that was the top of the shaft rattling till it seized firmly in place where it still is today in the old driven gear. I am soaking it all in penetrant at the moment in the hope that I can get the broken bit out eventually. If there is no rust on the splines of the broken part, I believe that will indicate that the current rust etc was post impact and will give me another level of argument. But, as you say, that is anybodys guess so I believe that at the least, Club Marine should negotiate a part settlement.
Keg, not sure what you are trying to say, but looks like you're indicating that I shouldn't claim in the first place.
I have been a member of Club Marine for 11 years and had one minor claim when a person on board fell off the boat and broke of a part of the Gunwale when all 95Kg of him tried to climb back over the side. In this instance, I did the repair myself rather than go with the $2900 quote from a fibreglass company. Club Marine did pay for the 3M5200 marine adhesive. My payments to Club Marine are not a donation. They are meant to cover me in the event of a mishap which I was unable to avoid
Rob H, thanks for helpful input. As indicated above, the broken bit is still jammed firmly in the driven gear. What is my next option re pursuing it. I was considering the Insurance Ombudsman. Just dont want to get myself blacklisted
straith and Swompa, the repairer was Waterline Marine who came highly recommended by a person working in the marine Industry. Cameron has been excellent and I will have no hesitation in using his services again
Sorry for the looong post
Cheers Eric

____________________________________________________________________________

Don't spend all your money on beer, boats, and fishing. Save some to spend foolishly

Posts: 788

Date Joined: 25/05/12

same same but different

Tue, 2022-10-25 17:02

 Man i had the something similar happen and am still fighting them almost 2 years later!

I am at the ombudsman stage now and have had to fork out my own money for an independent evaluation by a marine engineer,

through discussions with people if your mechanic is a club marine repairer they wont bite the hand that feeds them "club marine" and wont offer you much help. 

 

 

I stupidly left motors down one day  while preoccupied talking to a mate i drove to the boat ramp and grazed the speed hump at hillarys 

just enough to cause damage a few months down the track.... But in clubs oppinion it was a "part malfuntion"

 

I am putting in the report this week and hoping for a good outcome.

 

 

Ericl's picture

Posts: 433

Date Joined: 02/05/11

Also CM

Tue, 2022-10-25 17:25

Hi dano83

Are you aslso with Club Marine.

Interesting. I did talk to Suzuki initially as Google searches show more failures on Suzuki than other outboards (in my opinion). This also reflects in threads on The Hull Truth. Suzuki said definitely a result of impact damage. Club Marine say no impact damage visible. I asked what they expected to see from a nylon rope. No response as yet to that question.

Hope this is not going to take 2 years plus

Cheers

____________________________________________________________________________

Don't spend all your money on beer, boats, and fishing. Save some to spend foolishly

Posts: 788

Date Joined: 25/05/12

yep im with club

Wed, 2022-10-26 09:44

 

Yeah mate!  im with Club marine and still am atm until i get this resolved....

If you can put a good case together take it to the ombudsman they will ask you to prove your story and if you can put any doubt in there mind of what club marine say  and wha you say is also possible

they should go in your favour.

you need to put up a very good case though because they are cleaver!

 

I will let you know my outcome if you like. 

Da pirate's picture

Posts: 1356

Date Joined: 03/05/15

Waterline ..

Tue, 2022-10-25 18:34

I use cam and gotta get my boat to him

to resolve some issues on my little boat !
guys a absolute legend . Been taking

my boat to him for years .. cheers pirate  

Jackfrost80's picture

Posts: 7658

Date Joined: 07/05/12

Absolute legend of a bloke a

Fri, 2022-12-02 14:34

Absolute legend of a bloke a old school top service too

____________________________________________________________________________

If catching wrasse is cool, consider me Miles Davis

Posts: 409

Date Joined: 06/02/14

Unpopular

Wed, 2022-10-26 05:48

 I showed this to a mate who Non Destructive Tests aeronautical parts, and also tests items after failure.

 

He agrees with club marine, says the spline wear, caused a weak point in the shaft, and the stress fracture propagated from there, causing the failure when you hit the rope.

 

He also said your hypothesis is not totally out there and it cant be ruled out. He also mentioned a defect in the steel when it was cast, cant be ruled out either without testing in a lab.

 

Thus, although I know this is unpopular, club marine went with the most likely option, and the bastards would win if you took it further. Sadly.

 

He says if you google metallurgist- Perth, you can take take it for an independant check at a hefty fee. He doesnt do anything but aircraft, I asked.

sea-kem's picture

Posts: 14329

Date Joined: 30/11/09

 I worked with Gordon aka

Wed, 2022-10-26 06:47

 I worked with Gordon aka Sunshine regarding a trailer failure, Engaged a forensic engineer and a good outcome for the trailer owner. Like you say there are many factors at play and until you get it in a lab it's all speculative. 

____________________________________________________________________________

Love the West!

Posts: 409

Date Joined: 06/02/14

Unpopular

Wed, 2022-10-26 05:49

 Double

Posts: 82

Date Joined: 19/05/13

 Is it a maintenance part,

Wed, 2022-10-26 22:39

 

Is it a maintenance part, and is the wear on splines within Suzi tolerances?

 

Brock O's picture

Posts: 2890

Date Joined: 11/01/08

looking at that spline to me

Thu, 2022-10-27 12:25

looking at that spline to me its taken a massive hit you can even see were its jammed before failure,

Wear my ass..how does a splined shaft like that wear ffs.

Keep pushing Eric.

Ericl's picture

Posts: 433

Date Joined: 02/05/11

Totally agree Brock O

Thu, 2022-10-27 13:33

My feelings exactly. Fatigue failure apparently shows up as a much more gentle even fracture. This looks like a volcano ! The top is still jammed in the driven gear where in my opinion, its twisted while the lower bit was jammed by the cray rope

Cheers

____________________________________________________________________________

Don't spend all your money on beer, boats, and fishing. Save some to spend foolishly

Brock O's picture

Posts: 2890

Date Joined: 11/01/08

Exactly..yes they do wear but

Thu, 2022-10-27 14:02

Exactly..yes they do wear but that's showing signs of a major failure to me, they dont get deformation in them from normal wear even after 1100 hrs.

I had a quick look over the thread for all the other comments from our experienced forum members who have broken a shaft also...couldn't find any even with massive engine hours, a failure due to wear to me is bullshit.

My last motor was a 95 Johnson..I don't have pic's but the shaft still looked new after who knows how many hours and I had wacked that a few times even smashed a prop, but still nothing like the attached.

One thing I will mention is the lack of grease. I'd presume this comes out when changing the water pump like most...why your mechanic hasn't greased it is a worry..the above comments are due to the signs of rust / corrosion build up, arguments of a notch / fatigue raisers causing the failure does have weight and is what the insurance company will work on.

I have 1972 Torana and the axles are still original, they have coped a hammering over the years with multiple broken diff centers. Extremely rare to brake a shaft even with high fatigue loads.

Putting a boat motor in gear in water...I cant see that wear from that sorry.

little johnny's picture

Posts: 5196

Date Joined: 04/12/11

Sunshine helped me

Thu, 2022-10-27 21:11

Out heaps .regarding insurance .( unreal guy) I hope all works out for you. Last fish comp I was in . My son hit turtle . Lucky he had ally prop . Otherwise it would have been nasty. I run s/steel prop. No play in them . Up to nearly 4000 hrs on my motor now. Very soon going for number 3 mo

Posts: 209

Date Joined: 02/01/12

 Would of thought the

Fri, 2022-10-28 11:20

 Would of thought the coupling inside the prop would have broken before the drive shaft, have broken them before and they are usually only made of plastic last one it did was in a 175hp Merc running over a rope at dawn. From the photo to me looks like it's not new give the rust showing my guess it's been broken a while and likely a result of manufacturing defect. Had it snapped further down the shaft outside the coupling and was unable to drive at all after the hit my guess would be your claim would have a better chance of approval. 
Best of luck 

little johnny's picture

Posts: 5196

Date Joined: 04/12/11

Early model motors

Sat, 2022-10-29 21:15

Had better things to save gearbox / shaft issues . Boy hit turtle few weeks back . If it wasn’t for his ally prop bending , he would have had big issues . If it was stainless steel like I run . 100% gear box would have gone . I don’t think new motors have sheer pins ?

sunshine's picture

Posts: 2407

Date Joined: 03/03/09

For those interested …..the final outcome

Fri, 2022-12-02 13:29

I am pleased to report that after some lengthy and detailed submissions the insurer backed down and accepted the claim with a reasonable depreciation allowance for wear and tear.    

And please be careful out there, you don't need to sit on the reef to get crays, two rescues yesterday of boats with the bottom end of outboards ripped clean off and that was all before 7am

 

Ericl's picture

Posts: 433

Date Joined: 02/05/11

Many thanks sunshine

Fri, 2022-12-02 13:54

 Want to express my sincere thanks to sunshine. With sunshines extensive help. a happy outcome has been achieved.  Eric

____________________________________________________________________________

Don't spend all your money on beer, boats, and fishing. Save some to spend foolishly

sea-kem's picture

Posts: 14329

Date Joined: 30/11/09

 You are an absolute

Fri, 2022-12-02 14:13

 You are an absolute gentleman Gordon, I know we all appreciate your expertise and knoweledge on here 

____________________________________________________________________________

Love the West!

Posts: 432

Date Joined: 29/04/18

 Great outcome for you Eric ,

Fri, 2022-12-02 15:08

 Great outcome for you Eric , and well done Gordon top work you sure do help alot on this site ,cheers 

____________________________________________________________________________

 Happy dayz 

big john's picture

Posts: 8604

Date Joined: 20/07/06

Legendary

Fri, 2022-12-02 15:48

Onya Sunshine. 

____________________________________________________________________________

WA based manufacturer and supplier of premium leadhead jigs, bucktail jigs, 'bulletproof' soft plastic jig heads and XOS bullet jig heads.

Jigs available NOR at Shorecatch, Bluewater Joondalup/Myaree or online in my web store!

Posts: 8967

Date Joined: 10/02/07

Great to hear

Fri, 2022-12-02 16:33

 Erich

____________________________________________________________________________

all aggressive fish love bigjohnsjigs

Posts: 8967

Date Joined: 10/02/07

Great to hear

Fri, 2022-12-02 16:34

 Eric.

____________________________________________________________________________

all aggressive fish love bigjohnsjigs

Brock O's picture

Posts: 2890

Date Joined: 11/01/08

Well Done Sunshine, Legendary

Fri, 2022-12-02 18:06

Well Done Sunshine, Legendary Stuff!! Great news Eric, bet thats a load off.

Swompa's picture

Posts: 3477

Date Joined: 14/10/12

 What a legend you are,

Fri, 2022-12-02 18:21

 What a legend you are, Gordon.

Ericl's picture

Posts: 433

Date Joined: 02/05/11

Thanks Brocko. Definitely a load off

Fri, 2022-12-02 19:13

 Thanks Brocko. Definitely a load off. Will help with Xmas spending 

____________________________________________________________________________

Don't spend all your money on beer, boats, and fishing. Save some to spend foolishly