Lure Help!
Submitted by tommo77 on Mon, 2008-07-07 13:44.
Ok so this happened to me twice the other day, i was using just the small 10gm halco twisty and after about 3-4 casts my line had a massive tangle in it ... i got told to keep my reel tight but im not quite sure if that meant the drag or simply just not letting it slack?
Any advice would be greatly appreciated!
Cheers, Tommo
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mako magic
Posts: 3286
Date Joined: 03/08/05
how did you attach the line
how did you attach the line to the lure? with a swivel or not?
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tommo77
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a swivel
yep!
brenz
Posts: 881
Date Joined: 15/06/06
depends on the swivel mate
depends on the swivel mate those twistys rotate a fair bit i recomend ball bearing swivels as it tend to eliminate it completely the cheap swivels dont usually cut it
brenz
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hlokk
Posts: 525
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I had the same problem just
I had the same problem just recently. Pretty sure its due to 3 things
1. Overfilling the spool. Problems seemed to reduced when I lost a bit of line. Usually recommended to keep a mm or two or lip, but best to talk to some tackle guys on the specifics.
2. Susceptible line. I was using some new braid, and it doesnt like twisting much compared to some others i've used. Seems less susceptible in fireline or 8 carrier braids (but maybe the twisting is just less aparent and those spools were filled a bit better).
3. Line catching the treble. For straight retreives a twisty does not rotate, it only wobbles side to side, but if you're working it a bit different or it gets caught, or some weed, it will start twisting. I think it can also twist on the drop, but I think it depends on a few factors.
If you are using a swivel, you might decrease the chances of it causing twist. A small swivel (like the penn S/S ones) is good cause you can put it on the twistys split ring. Doesnt add much bulk either (though you can put the swivel up the line if you want).
Pretty sure its due to loose loops of line coming off during casting, so keeping a bit of tension on the line and not overfilling the spool should help, but some tackle store guys should be able to help out a bit more on that.
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brenz
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Date Joined: 15/06/06
hlok a twisty will most
hlok a twisty will most certainly rotate even in a straight line when not caught on the trebble
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tommo77
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cheers fellas
-
tommo77
Posts: 481
Date Joined: 20/06/08
oh just a note...
the knot was about 10m up the line, it wasn't anywhere near the actual lure, im guessing its something to do with the reel then when i think about it..
brenz
Posts: 881
Date Joined: 15/06/06
wind knots are a general
wind knots are a general thing when using braid i dont know ne one who doesnt get them
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hlokk
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Pretty sure it happens when
Pretty sure it happens when casting, but the reduced line on my spool seemed to drop the chance of it happening by quite a bit. The lure can still contribute to the line twist though (also, if you twist some line it will usually kink in the middle, but more of a mono thing).
Btw, just to check are you using mono or braid (i'm assuming braid).
Brenz, I was pulling some lures through the pool and by winding straight, it looked like the twisty wobbled (as a bibbed lure would) rather than rotated. This is for a straight constant retreive. I think raiders rotate though?
Might do a bit more twisting to see when the lure twists and when it doesnt (or whether it does either).
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Dreamweaver
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I was pulling some lures through the pool...
Anythink hit em Hlokk?
Colin Molloy
(Colin 2 - Co-founding member of the prestigious Colin Club)
hlokk
Posts: 525
Date Joined: 04/04/08
I'm sure a cat would if i
I'm sure a cat would if i was working those SX40s. Very realistic, especially when you twist.
Pool tests are quite useful though. Especially how the jigs work, seeing as I've only just gotten some.
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Dreamweaver
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Haha Hlokk
Sorry, couldn't resist it. {Grin} Seriously, it's a great idea, I know a lot of people that do that - to test, assess and perfect the action.
Colin Molloy
(Colin 2 - Co-founding member of the prestigious Colin Club)
tommo77
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hlokk
i was using mono mate.
Happened again tonight using the halco 10gm friggen line tangled up again coming off the reel. ah well
luke
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hey arent called twistys
hey arent called twistys because they dont twist.....
Bloke
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Twisties
I dont use twisties much at all anymore, as the name suggests
Found the raiders to be much more user freindly.
Al.
hlokk
Posts: 525
Date Joined: 04/04/08
I thought they were called
I thought they were called twisties because the lure ends are turn up. The halco site says a wobbling motion, not a spinning one.
I'll check more closely when I get home though.
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Bloke
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I use mine when fishing
I use mine when fishing where there is wind and more often than not a bit of current, cant comment on how they work in a pool.
As I said I just use my lures when fishing
Al.
hlokk
Posts: 525
Date Joined: 04/04/08
Its actually quite helpful
Its actually quite helpful to understand how your lure works and how to work it when you can see it easily unlike some actual fishing locations which helps a lot more me seeing as I dont have as much experience actually using them.
I've improved my minnow techniques and understood how my jigs work for example, which would be a lot harder in practice (well, at least to understand how your hand motions are transferring to the lure). Figured out a few interesting retreives on some lures too. It's helpful for me, so I dont care what you guys think of my tank testing
hehe
And dont worry, i've still caught fish on the lures afterwards. Quite like the twisties too.
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brenz
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matt i wouldnt take it to
matt i wouldnt take it to heart buddy i think what every 1 is trying to get at is do research and talk from exp when sharing knowledge instead of commenting on what you know from a text book etc . as the twisty comment is a great example yes they wobble as the text explains but they twist and turn alot as well which you will find out if you have used the lure as the twist is unmistakable.
brenz
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hlokk
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They definately twist the
They definately twist the line when you're using them, but I didnt think their action when retreived straight actually caused them to twist (i.e. they arent designed to spin)
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luke
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broken record
broken record
brenz
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:s --------------------------
:s
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Bloke
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LOL
Al.
Auslobster
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A bit off the subject but
A bit off the subject but talking about wind knots...I seem to only get them with spinning reels. I can't recall getting any on overhead gear (have exact same line on Calcutta 400B as Penn Slammer 560). Has anyone else experienced this?
Dreamweaver
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Aus....
Wasn't that where this post all started?
Colin Molloy
(Colin 2 - Co-founding member of the prestigious Colin Club)
till
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I got 2-3 on sunday, tossing
I got 2-3 on sunday, tossing light lures into the wind on that bridge pylon. Im thinking about getting a small eggbeater for SPs.
Bloke
Posts: 601
Date Joined: 26/02/08
Yes mate.
I found that if using spin gear you need to keep tension on the line about every 4th or 6th cast, it doesnt stop wind knots but help minimize the problem a lot.
The problem is too many loose loops of line flying off the reel at the same time, all these loops hit the stripper guide at the same time and hey presto!!! wind knot city!!
Never had a drama on a baitcasting (overhead) outfit either.
Al.
edit. hope hlokk approves and hasnt studied this in his pool, oh well with some people you get used to being wrong
tommo77
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hobie
it was about the 4th cast that i got very tangled, whats a good way of keeping the tension in the line?
SPESS
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You wont get a wind knot in
You wont get a wind knot in an over head because there is always tension on the line! the lure itself and its momentum is what pulls the line from the reel. If theres no wieght on a baitcasters line the line will not come off the reel. Also baitcasters have obviously got braking avantages that spinning reels dont have.
Hlokk what the hell are u on!lol. Twisties are desighned to twist ontop or just below the water column, if they arent then you have got something stopping there action or your winding too slow killing there action. Medium to fast is the only way to use them or very arratic. Cheers Chris.
Keep it tight, reeeeeeel tight!
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luke
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for hlokk.... :)
for hlokk.... :)
Bloke
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Date Joined: 26/02/08
tommo
I reckon if your using mono it's either severly twisted or your spool is over filled, you should probably get it respooled with a quality mono by your local tackle guru and start using a "quality" swivel somewhere in your rig if you intend on persisting with the twisties.
I think you just might have crap line and swivels if using mono mate, get something like Line Systems Salt Water Hard that hasnt got so much memory and your problems should ease.
Ryan from Ocean Side or Brenz from Tackle Shack stock it I'd imagine, go see one of them and they'll sort you out once you explain whats going on, pretty sure they offer a spooling service for free too, if you buy the line there, that way you'll get it done right the 1st time by guys in the know.
Hope that helps with your frustrations, fishing should be fun mate.
Cheers, Al.
tommo77
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Cheers Hobie!
Yeah i have crap line and crap swivels lol, i have never used lures or anything so yeah thanks for that big help!
SPESS
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Hey atleast he reads up
Hey atleast he reads up first so he knows what hes on about!lol. Not bad from someone whos new to the fishing game. Leave him alone luke you big meany!lol. make me weak though! hahahahahaaha
Keep it tight, reeeeeeel tight!
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luke
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yeh, fair call spess, and i
yeh, fair call spess, and i have been guilty of that myself on the odd occasion, but to contiually do it, and then agrue the point, with the professionals at times i might add... and this isnt the first time... it gets a bit.... how can i put it.......tiresome? hell, even when he asks to be proven wrong... and is proven wrong ... he still argues the point.... to be honest, i personally am totally over it....
anyway, thats my take on it...
Bloke
Posts: 601
Date Joined: 26/02/08
at the end of the day
who cares really?
Looks like Tommo is on the way up even if an expert confused him, I dont work in the tackle industry because I'm a scientist, I'm just a dumb fisho
Al.
SPESS
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I feeeeeeeeeeeeeeeel ya
I feeeeeeeeeeeeeeeel ya lukey!
Keep it tight, reeeeeeel tight!
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luke
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hey!!!! we dont roll that
hey!!!! we dont roll that way where i come from mate
SPESS
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HAHAHAHAHAHA We roll
HAHAHAHAHAHA We roll together then arrrrrite beeearch!
Keep it tight, reeeeeeel tight!
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luke
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us northside boys roll dis
us northside boys roll dis way arrite....
luke
northside crew in da house
tommo77
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-
-
SPESS
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Date Joined: 29/12/06
Ask heeeeeeeeeeeeeaps of
Ask heeeeeeeeeeeeeaps of questions mate to learn but please and i mean please just make sure you ask the right people other wise u wont learn a thing.
Keep it tight, reeeeeeel tight!
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luke
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out of interest tommo, did
out of interest tommo, did you put the line on the reel yourself?? there is a right and a wrong way of spooling line on ya reels....
would agree that it is most lkely bad line.... i personally have only had 1 birds nest... not fun by any means... mine was caused from overspooloing the reel.... but man, could you cast it a mile!!! lol
tommo77
Posts: 481
Date Joined: 20/06/08
haha luke
i just tied it around the reel and then put the spool of line on a screwdriver so it can spin .. held the line just above the reel so its quite tight rather then just the line spilling of the thing .. i probably did overspool it though or i am using too heavy of a line class 12lb on a smaller reel
luke
Posts: 3163
Date Joined: 14/08/06
read this... god i feel like
read this... god i feel like someone else now!!! you will see it says to be very carefull on which way the reel spool lays.... my way of thinking is like this... line is spooled onto the spool for you to use on your reel. it is rolled onto the spool in one direction. if you unwind a lenght of line from that spool, it will geerally have a memory of how it was rolled... and want to coil in that direction. that is the direction you want the line going onto your reel.... if you go the opposit way, like you are trying to unwind the coils, you get alot of unessacary line twist... voila big bad birdsnest
http://www.wikihow.com/Spool-New-Fishing-Line-Onto-a-Reel
it is a very common mistake , but i learnt it many years ago from my grandpop....hope this helps you and your problem
tommo77
Posts: 481
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ohhhh - luke
Ahhhh i see, i am probably making that mistake mate!
Might solve alot of unneccesary tangles i have lol
tommo77
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you fellas
are great help!!!
i didnt know much until i stumbled upon this website!
SPESS
Posts: 3735
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Thats a very good comment
Thats a very good comment luke. If you have spooled the reel and got shit loads on twist in it while doing so that will cause mass headaches.
Hey luke where did u read that?
Keep it tight, reeeeeeel tight!
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luke
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read it???? i wrote the damn
read it???? i wrote the damn book mate!!!!
SPESS
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12lb on a smaller reel
12lb on a smaller reel should be fine mate, what size is it 1000, 2500?????
Keep it tight, reeeeeeel tight!
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Bloke
Posts: 601
Date Joined: 26/02/08
ROFPMSL
Just use a reverse twisted leader of 12lb line, that way it will counter act the lures twisting movement in the water, once you lift the lure out the leader will reform into shape.
Depending on what way the lure twists you may need to have twisted leaders done in reverse and forwards too.
DISCLAIMER: HEHEHEHEHE!
SPESS
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Shit mate did you co write
Shit mate did you co write that book with luke thats amazing!lol.
Keep it tight, reeeeeeel tight!
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Bloke
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lol
I was the EDITOR
tommo77
Posts: 481
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spess
its only a little 1000, but i do have a 2500. I still think the 12lb on the 1000 is too heavy im gonna get like a 10pd or 8pd if you can get those sizes, i only fish for bread and butter with those.
Hobie - what is a reverse twisted leader?
And as i said its definately either wind knots or the overspooling of that 12lb...
Bloke
Posts: 601
Date Joined: 26/02/08
TANK TEST
Hey just got a massive hookup in my goldfish pond testing the new Mackrel Maulers on my TLD30 combo, sorry it took so long to get back but the battle was awesome.
Might head back out and try skipping a few poppers accross there now they're all fired up.
SPESS
Posts: 3735
Date Joined: 29/12/06
On the 1000 size reel id go
On the 1000 size reel id go 6lb max mate and you might improve your catch rate. Its heaps strong enough for bread and butter species. Stay away from braid for a while as knots can be difficult while your learning and mono is better for species like herring who want to jump and carry on anyway. You will get more fish. Id put the 12ld on the 2500 that will be better.
Keep it tight, reeeeeeel tight!
*****RECFISH MEMBER*****
tommo77
Posts: 481
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hahahaha
you fellas have lashed hlokk .... lol
SPESS
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hahahahahah hobie what did
hahahahahah hobie what did the lure swim like!lol.
Keep it tight, reeeeeeel tight!
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SPESS
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Date Joined: 29/12/06
By the way tommo77 a
By the way tommo77 a reversed twisted leader is nothing but alittle fun!lol.hahaha
Keep it tight, reeeeeeel tight!
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Bloke
Posts: 601
Date Joined: 26/02/08
Single strand
Didnt bother with twisted leaders this time, landed the mongrels on 150lb wind on instead.
Geez these goldfish go hard.
Al
SPESS
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Date Joined: 29/12/06
Windon in that small area!
Windon in that small area! And only 150lb shit mate you better come to my place so i can get u into some 300lb double twisted with a half pike and no splash entry leaders they are the G.O. for goldies in a back pond. They can give u stick otherwise.
Keep it tight, reeeeeeel tight!
*****RECFISH MEMBER*****
Bloke
Posts: 601
Date Joined: 26/02/08
Bloody gold fish
Killed 4 in one cast, the splash of the lure stuffed em
Gotta go run the fillets off now, dont wanna waste em.......lol
Dreamweaver
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LM AO Al
Great whitty read guys! That last couple of posts where perlers Al
Colin Molloy
(Colin 2 - Co-founding member of the prestigious Colin Club)
NoWorries
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LOL
Do you think he will come back after this ??
_________________
Here fishy fishy !!
SPESS
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Whats a bit of fun eh? Its
Whats a bit of fun eh? Its all in good spirt!
Keep it tight, reeeeeeel tight!
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Dreamweaver
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I hope so Lindsay
Let's give Hlokk his due, he's absolutely passionate about fishing and puts a lot into that AND responding. When you caringly think about that, they are VERY admirable attributes. Guys, he DOES have my respect and admiration!
(I mean that)
Hey! Better that than ambivelence and indeference and apathy!
Colin Molloy
(Colin 2 - Co-founding member of the prestigious Colin Club)
SPESS
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Date Joined: 29/12/06
mmmmmmmmmm dont know about
mmmmmmmmmm dont know about that might have to think about that one col!
Keep it tight, reeeeeeel tight!
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Bloke
Posts: 601
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HLOKK
Just needs to mellow out is all, a lot of guys on here would respond more if he toned it down a bit I reckon.
My point is! blokes in the know couldnt be bothered arguing with text book clones, and being in the trade makes it hard to deliver a message to the hlokk's without insulting at times, and that's no good for business.
Say HLOKK fast! it sounds like the noise I make just before I cough up a big green slimy booger
Al.
Colin Hay
Posts: 4486
Date Joined: 23/10/07
I think the most likely suspects have been mentioned tommo
Certainly low quality line, spooling your line incorrectly onto your reel and not using a good quality swivel can all make a big difference. The biggest problems I have had have been linked to the first two.
(Colin 1 - Co-founding member of the prestigious Colin Club)
Tim
Posts: 1118
Date Joined: 26/09/06
Thanks
Thanks for the read everyone
Please remember tho we dont want things to get personal. The sites here for everyones enjoyment.
Back to the issue. I'm going with the overfilled spool or loose loops of line layed on the spool ideas.
** Rockingham Offshore Fishing Club **
brenz
Posts: 881
Date Joined: 15/06/06
tommo 77 sorry pal but the
tommo 77 sorry pal but the comment ya made "too be honest i didnt even really understand half of what hlokk and brenz were going on about lol, it was all professional talk " i found a bit strange read back through what i have stated or said as im sure none of which is "profesional talk" good swivels and line which i talked about is general knowledge that i was trying to share with you and i beleive the way i said it was very simple. not sure weather it was intended as a sledge towards me or not mate but was just tryin to help. also hoping that you were not trying to put me in the same boat as hlokk!!!
brenz
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tommo77
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brenz
Nah nah sorry mate shouldnt of said that really.. i was reading through it but obviously i dont have the knowledge you do etc etc so some of it didnt make sense to me e.g which way a lure spins and such haha (that may have been hlokk who said that).
But yeah sorry again mate!
brenz
Posts: 881
Date Joined: 15/06/06
tommo 77
no worries mate was just tellin hlokk that twistys do spin and not just wobble . hope all goes well bud if ya need some good line i have a heap of siglon (sunline) from jap ill put on ya reel for free to try out guarentee youll notice the difference.
brnez
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Albee Mangles
Posts: 263
Date Joined: 20/05/08
Hmm, offtopic..
Look, i've got this problem when i'm using Twisty's, i get this line twist......
AAARARRRGGGHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
By the way, Allan, did you run outside just then and stage that photo?
HA HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
My money says you did!!
----------------------------------------------------
"Guaranteed to catch fish mate, promise!"
Brett Ozanne
Bloke
Posts: 601
Date Joined: 26/02/08
Brett
Yes
It was goin off in the pond tonight, the goldies were smackin everything.
Al.
brenz
Posts: 881
Date Joined: 15/06/06
hobie i tryed the haymakers
hobie i tryed the haymakers and thats what they did knoked me koy out cold with 1 big "haymaker" hit
what lure were ya using hobie ? gonna bring out the 50 lb gear tomorow as i felt my 100lb stand up was a bit of a ova kill and my 500lb twisted double tripple crimped shock leader ruined the action of my baby vibe? help needed haha
brenz
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Bloke
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Date Joined: 26/02/08
400lb wind on
is what ya need mate, just be cautious of the current in the fish bowl dragging your double and destroying lure action.
No flash lures needed, just use the xtra deaps for anything over 50mm in a pond, they scrape the bottom real hard and stir em right up
Al.
brenz
Posts: 881
Date Joined: 15/06/06
al can i double my 200lb
al can i double my 200lb with quad crimp to make my 400lb as i ran out
brenz
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Bloke
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Date Joined: 26/02/08
geez
I dunno.
The consensus amongst the scientiffic community suggests not, it is believed that the minimum requirement would be at least a 400lb wind on.
After many hours of fish bowl testing by those in the scientiffic community it is suggested that the gold fish has extremly sharp gill rakers and outstanding powerful runs, very similar to that of the mulloway.
There for anecdotal evidence suggests a minimum requirement of at least a 4.00lb reversed overhand twisted flourocarbon laced mono leader that has the a 10X value of jinkai.
Hope that helps.
Al. the pond lurker. your everyday backyard fishing guru.
hlokk
Posts: 525
Date Joined: 04/04/08
Wow Al, your cutting it a
Wow Al, your cutting it a bit fine there, I only take it down to 400lb when I want the fight to last all day. My goldfish are picky buggers so I gotta get a 10kg+ whole dhuie on there first before they'll touch the thing. Only one lure has worked so far and thats the tree stump popper I whipped up out of a Karri tree trunk and some steel girders.
Reading through the post, theres some pretty funny replies
.
).
Well, except Luke, he must of missed a checkup at the proctologist to remove all that stuff that is evidently up there, lol. (and now we wait for the snap in 3....2....1....
I dont know why you guys are getting your knickers twisted over the twisties though. I ran a twisty in a pool, it wobbled, not rotated. I dunno, maybe you guys are running some different brand of 'halco twistys', but I calls it as I sees it. Case of the Emperors new clothes perhaps?
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Always interested in someone to go fishing with
Bloke
Posts: 601
Date Joined: 26/02/08
Your the man hlokk
who are we to comment with real life experience?
enjoy your pool mate.
35yrs fishing for me, worked the ledges at Avoca when the 1/2 x 1/4 was born about 27 years ago so I'm no stranger to fishing metals.
Give the expert crap a rest will ya?
Al.
hlokk
Posts: 525
Date Joined: 04/04/08
Not claiming to be an expert
Not claiming to be an expert Al, far from it. Though, apparently, if I say it wobbles when I test it, I must therefore be an expert to be able to make this observation...
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Always interested in someone to go fishing with
Colin Hay
Posts: 4486
Date Joined: 23/10/07
Who gives a toss
As long as you catch fish and tommo gets his line problem sorted.
(Colin 1 - Co-founding member of the prestigious Colin Club)
Mick
Posts: 102
Date Joined: 28/08/06
Here's a thing
If anyone has ever trolled little twisty's then they no doubt realise that they do actually TWIST and in braid makes an absolute mess. I'm not sure how big your pool is Hlokk but realistically its not a real world situation. Ever tried a Halco Wobbler or perhaps a Giant Trembler - What motion do you think they would impart? And I'm sure deep divers do not run on the surface. Just my observations from many years experience.
Cheers Mick
Few men desire real freedom. Most men simply desire a kind master
SHizz
Posts: 1424
Date Joined: 07/08/05
Meow! Ladies,will one of
Meow!
Ladies,will one of you just give in and STFU :p
SPESS
Posts: 3735
Date Joined: 29/12/06
Ok Josh sorry mate!lol.
Ok Josh sorry mate!lol. Still funny though.
Keep it tight, reeeeeeel tight!
*****RECFISH MEMBER*****
Bloke
Posts: 601
Date Joined: 26/02/08
Shizz
Your a day late pal, done n dusted here unless someone wants to drag it up again like you did
Al.
tommo77
Posts: 481
Date Joined: 20/06/08
hahaha
ha
Bloke
Posts: 601
Date Joined: 26/02/08
lure testing
Thought I'd go one up and see how they swim under water from my test tank
Al.
knothome
Posts: 1536
Date Joined: 12/11/05
so thats
so thats what you do when on holidays
cheers dennis
SPESS
Posts: 3735
Date Joined: 29/12/06
hahahahahahhhhhahahahahahaha
hahahahahahhhhhahahahahahaha thats classic! Mate ill have to meet you your alright!lol.
Keep it tight, reeeeeeel tight!
*****RECFISH MEMBER*****