So true!!! so upwards and onward with the CULL!!!

seen this one a few times before, always a good debate.  I think they should save a bit of money on some of these protective measures which possibly wont work and spend a bit more on research.

 Start sport fishing sharks.  Open up GW fishing. 

Good luck ... this mob was on the radio yesterday so checked out their website . Apparently Norman Moore and Barnett are trying to eradicate the supposed endangered GWs ( huh ).. they've got the propaganda ready to roll out and are preparing for war . IMO thin them all out big and small the buggars are everywhere . Problem is contesting the army of vegans and treehuggers whom have jumped on the bandwagon and offer no solution other than to say " don't go in the ocean or refer to road stat deaths .

http://www.wascgroup.com/?page_id=70#WASC_and_Sharks_For_Life_WA%27s_Imminent_threat_Policy_a_breach_of_UN_laws_conventions_and_treaties

Both sides have valid points - but as fishos we should be thinking about the broader picture of the overall marine environment and what the sharks do in that environment.

If you wipe out the Apex predator, what happens to the marine environment and to our ability to fish - what species steps up to the top to take the place of sharks that we will then have to wipe out.

IMHO - Perhaps looking at what some commercial fishing operations are doing to the food source and why they are coming closer to land more often is a better long term plan.

How many people swimming/surfing/diving an any given day for the number of attacks? The stats are pretty small.

I haven't heard too many people advocating "wiping them out", but a reduction in numbers seems like a reasonable idea to me

As Justo82 says . . .  . . "Start sport fishing sharks.  Open up GW fishing."   

That should keep the numbers close to the coast down

 Yeah I've said this before, surely they have some commercial value...jaws for one, fertilliser? Cat food?. Give the pro's a quota each year. I mean there's gotta be a win win situation somewhere in all of this?

Professional shark catchers employed and do it. Fisheries wouldn't have a clue. But the pro's would.

Sea-kem agree, surely if the pro's catch them, the commercial value of what you stated would also cover their costs.

 Culling is a knee jerk reaction to this problem- what anecdote or research is there to say that culling sharks corresponds to less coastal shark attacks? Is the idea of culling the best solution, or what you read in the newspaper or on tv? I think it would be a good idea to research the problem before we spend thousands potentially creating more problems than we had in the first place 

The question I keep asking myself is, if there's so many GWS out in the ocean as some people claim how come Fisheries can't catch one when it tries and without any accurate research as to their numbers I'm opposed to a shark cull. I'm more in favour of having seasonal closures on beaches that surfers use when the GWS are hanging around.

You know how I earn a living. I'll catch this bird for you but he ain't gonna be easy. Bad fish. Not like goin down the pond chasing blue-gills and tommy cods. This shark, swallow you whole. shakin...tenderizing...down ya go.
Now we gotta do it quick. That'll bring back the tourists. That'll put all your businesses on a paying basis. But it's not gonna be pleasant. I value my neck a lot more n 3000 bucks chief.
I'll find him for three, but I'll catch him and kill him for ten.
Now you gotta make up your minds. Do you wanna stay alive and ante up or you wanna play it cheap, be on welfare the whole winter.
I don't want no volunteers. I don't want no mates. There's too many captains on this island. 10,000 dollars for me by myself. For that you get the head, the tail, the whole damn thing.

some clown on the radio yesterday reckons the females don't breed until their over 4 m long and he reckons they are endangered and all sharks will be extinct in 20/30 years!!!!!!

Its only happened in the last ten years or so and it coincides with the huge increase of humpback whales that are travelling up and down the coast.

Its not just the whites doing the damage, there are some huge bronzies, tigers, makos, hammers and dusky whalers out there that can't be touched by the pros with size regulations and seasonal closures in place.

As for up our way, there has been a no shark fishing restriction from Steep point to NW Cape for over 25 years to my knowledge [would love to have a licence for the area] and they closed off the zone where we used to fish from Exmouth east to near Broome because the numbers of thickskins [sandbar whalers] dropped right down around 2002/3 and it is still closed some ten years later. The rec fishers used to welcome us in to Exmouth with open arm and just about beg us to stay in the area for longer than what we did.

Question for those who only want to cull the whites, how do you discriminate what shark takes the bait and what happens to it once you have caught it?
I was brought up with the belief that if you kill something its is for a purpose and you are going to eat it not waste it. To kill them and just dump them is no worse that the Jap tuna fishermen finning sharks and dumping the carcass overboard

Im neutral on the subject but must admit i would love to C&R a 6 meter GW

Fully agree 'new age'. Culling won't eliminate the problem, at best all it will do is reduce the likelihood, and from most peoples reactions and what is being fed by the media this still would not be enough.

The other factor that hasn't been discussed is, why are there more attacks in WA than other places around the world. There are GW's and other predatory shark species all around the world. What makes them attack humans in WA, as compared to anywhere else. Is there more pollution in WA waters that could effect their mental processing, less food, or ???

 .

Just so everyone knows, great whites are not, and have not ever been an endangered species. 

Roughly 15-20 years ago, they were "under threat of BECOMING endangered", and we're therefore put on the protected species list. 

And for the record, I would love the last great white ever living, to be stuffed and block mounted on my living room wall. 

Interesting how so many people change their tune once a few more people have been killed.

I think the government has made a mistake by not accepting (And paying) for help form the OCEARCH team. For those who dont know them, they are the mob who tag great white sharks on 'shark week' and have offered assistance to the WA government to tag sharks off WA for the past 2 years.

Here is their site and shark tracker.

http://www.ocearch.org/tracker/

From my knowledge, our state government has a tagging program, but i do not know of any public information available like the above site.

The WA fisheries Minister came out and said that WA had their own adequate tagging program, however the downside was the tags placed in the GW sharks only last 10-12 months before they need replacing. Interestingly the tags which OCEARCH put on GW sharks last 10 years (Internal tags). Surely its a no brainer which method is more financially viable....

The GW shark was added to the "Vulnerable species list" not endangered list in Australia in 1999.

To this day, there is very little information known about the breeding cycle of GW sharks, except the fact they take about 15 years to reach adulthood / Maturity. Put the date GW's were added to the Vulnerable list and time it takes for GW sharks to reach maturity and what do you get.... 2014!

Heres an interesting extract of Natural threats to the GW Shark

Interspecific competition between the great white shark and the orca is probable in regions where dietary preferences of both species may overlap.[An incident was documented on 4 October 1997, in the Farallon Islands off California in the United States. An estimated 4.7–5.3-metre (15–17 ft) female orca immobilized an estimated 3–4-metre (9.8–13 ft) great white shark.[56] The orca held the shark upside down to induce tonic immobility and kept the shark still for fifteen minutes, causing it to suffocate and then proceeded to eat the dead shark's liver. It is believed that the scent of the slain shark's carcass caused all the great whites in the region to flee, forfeiting an opportunity for a great seasonal feed.[Another similar attack apparently occurred there in 2000, but its outcome is not clear. After both attacks, the local population of about 100 great whites vanished. Following the 2000 incident, a great white with a satellite tag was found to have immediately submerged to a depth of 500 m (1,600 ft) and swum to Hawaii.

Sounds very interesting to me, however without having an adequate tagging system, howver could any such event be verified.

Should they be culled... i am not sure, but i know im a lot more selective when and where i get in the water these days.

 yum yum...

The government could charge a lot of money for a sports fishing license to catch BIG sharks in a certain area.  The money raised could then be used to fund further research and conservations measures.  The same thing works for land animals in Africa.

Maybe the sharks are thinking theres too many damn surfers. A cull is a waste of a pretty awesome creature. Like what someone else said - no different to the Japanese hunting whales. 

But I guess whales are "cute" 

The comparison with road fatalities has some merit IMO. Just as we could virtually eliminate road casualties by imposing 30km/h speed limits everywhere, we could also eliminate shark attacks by not entering the water. Instead, rightly or wrongly, we decide on what is an "acceptable" number of car accidents and set the speed limit accordingly. There has been no "acceptable" level of shark attacks set, so no real action has been taken.

 i want to eat shark fin soup.... those that are officiallly culled of course.

Get the shark dive cages out. keen as

i only dive nowdays for abs , dont surf , none of the family surfs either , so probably easy for me to say im not for a cull yet , given the lack of information we actually have on their habits /movements , areas frequented and length of stay in those areas
id like to see more research done on GW first before we just cull them as follows

1st , someone to collate all the shark attach info on the wa coast , including date, tide, water temps , water depth , ocean floor contour nearby , seal colony vicinity or proximity /numbers and established date

2nd , some long life tags to be used in a large scale ongoing tagging program on GW in wa , as they are nomadic oceanic sharks we need more info on their movements across the oceans & coastlines they visit and hunt in etc
large scale accoustic recievers to track & alert us to them along the coast would make more sense than helicopters imo

3 an overlay of the above with what scientific info we have on whale populations and movements of adult whales & with calves along our coast , it is known whales with calves travel and rest up in close inshore waters often , is the number of whales /calves close in bringing GW closer in to hunt & stay close to our coast more often ? especially as they round cape nato ?

4 get some stats on how many people are actually using the water on our coast over time ,again try to overlay it with the above to see what results
how big an increase have we seen in water activity ? are we as water users actually the food that is attracting them here more and for longer ?
as an apex predator that has adapted over eons , are they actually adapting and learning from our human water activity hot spots & realising that they now have another mammal other than seals and whales as easy prey in their enviroment
,
5 how do GW learn or communicate individually & with each other/juveniles ?are GW able to learn our water habits fast ie , learn & remember good locations on their oceanic journeys of easy food supply and teach it to others ?

6 what effect is our interactions with the GW population having on them , ie , does cage diving ,metalic banging undewater like on cage bars to bring them back to the cage , anchor chains , dive tanks in boats etc & towing seal look alike objects above them for photo oppurtunitys etc groom or adapt them to seek us out even more , & again overlay it with the above

lots of un answered questions i think

but i believe if i was a regular surfie/swimmer or diver i would avoid any place that has a deep water drop off close by ,where seals in particular colonise ,

things have shifted sadly , we need to know why before we act imho

hezzy

he got chomped!

One one hand i think well enter at your own risk- i mean if you ran across Africa and got eaten by a lion who's to blame for that? 

But, if a family member was taken by a white I would most probably say 'kill them all' so i do understand where families and friends of shark victims are coming from.

IMO sharks are amazing creatures and would not want to see them disappear, but if there really are too many out there then a limited number cull would be a good option. 

Yer lets do more research, say for the next 10 years...... sounds like our Gov.

You want to do some research, then do some reseach on the families of the men that were taken RIP, I have, and know 1 of the families.

These sharks kill people, sence when has a sharks life been worth more than human life? cull the bloody things

and for the people that ref to car crashes that kill, we should cull some of the hoon drivers. drink drivers bloody soft laws.

 There's two more kids that will grow up without a father and all the tree huggers and arm chair experts care about is the welfare of a fish

Why is it ok to take samples of populations (say pink snapper) for research but not white pointers?  I couldnt think of a better way to study white pointers than studying a few dead ones.

This is a tough one, of course we feel bad for the families of those who are attacked/killed by sharks. But I think they all know the risk they are taking when they go surfing/diving in areas where sharks have been known to attack. Even if they do a cull I would like to see how many they are able to track down, since they don't even know how many are out there. I honestly don't understand the people who say "kill them all" that's just stupid, if a dog was to attack or badly wound a person, u don't just go kill off all dogs of that breed. Yes shark numbers have increased but its their domain we are going into, its not like they go "hunting for humans" its just really unfortunate that these guys happen to be at the wrong place at the wrong time. I know im probably going to be abused by all u guys that want to kill them off ,and what are they going to do with the sharks once killed just use the fins and dump the rest? Im currently a marine bio student and obviously don't want the cull and would prefer to see other measures laid out to prevent shark attacks. We cant say to people u cant swim/dive/ surf there, something else needs to be done. Also as someone else said earlier about most of the families not wanting the sharks to be killed, I know someone from another country who had a close encounter with a shark but was able to get away (think it was a tiger) but their family nor the person wanted them to be culled. That's my opinion anyway.

Yes to hunt and kill the responsible shark. But by now after numerous post over the years (we go through this each year there is an attack - and lately which year hasnt seen one) the long term members know I am a rogue theorist. It has just become to annual.

Time line from 2002: 30/4/02 - Scallop diver, SA -- GW

16/12/02 - Gold Coast -Bull

8/2/03 - Gold Coast - Bull

10/7/04 - Gracetown WA - GW and Bronzy?

11/12/04 - Cairns Qland - shark attack but died from Cardiac arrest - unknown reef

16/12/04 - Scurfing behind boat - SA - GW

19/3/05 - Abrolhos Island - snorkelling - WA - GW

24/8/05 - Glenelg SA - GW

7/1/06 - North Stradbroke Island Qland _ Bulls

8/4/08 - Ballina Northern NSW - ?type

27/12/08 - Port kennedy WA - we all know this one well - GW

17/8/10 - Cracetown WA - GW

17/2/11 - Coffin Bay SA - GWs

4/9/11 - Bunker bay WA - GW

10/10/11 - Cottesloe WA - presumed GW

22/10/11 - Rotto WA - GW

31/3/12 - Geographe Marina WA- prob GW

14/7/12 - Wedge Island WA -GW

23/11/13 - Gracetown WA - GW

Now if we look at this pattern 7/8 fatal attacks in Aus since 08 in WA, 2/10 02 -08 excl Port kennedy in WA which I included in the previous because it was close to 09. I do believe a shark or sharks have learned. Most previous attacks have been fatal bites, but increasingly lately the victim has been lost, or there has been an attempt by the shark to swim off with the victim. Bystanders have tried to chase off the shark increasingly. 

Unfortunately the only way to prove this rogue theory is to remove the rogue(s). Or possibly if research can tag the possible culprits, warn beachgoers etc if they approach a beach and see if the rate falls. Doesnt help the scuba and freedivers though!

But to go and just hunt all GW IMO is not the right thing to do without further research, and even then I would not just want to cull them for the sake off it.

It seems that the past has taught us nothing. What you are saying dumper is that if you’re against the culling of GW then you are a tree hugger or an arm chair expert. The only way to solve this problem is research, education and good management. Killing off GW will only cause more problems for our future generation who will then have to find a way to save the GW from extinction. Big cats, bears, whales, etc. have all been down this path and now the world has a huge job is trying to save them.

I bet most people who are all for kill kill kill have never seen a GW in the wild and therefor would be the true arm chair experts.

look at the statisitics from the links below , many alcohol related , should we ban people from drinking around pools or the beach in boats ? how many people lose a brother , father , sister, mum , dad etc from drowning or boating each year

http://sls.com.au/sites/sls.com.au/files/National-Coastal-Safety-Report-2011.pdf

http://www.lifesavingwa.com.au/news/article/?id=170 drownings

http://www.lifesavingwa.com.au/news/article/?id=170 boat deaths

humans want to control things , we think we can be in control of our life and enviroment always , by there very nature shark attacks scare the hell out of us, shark attacks will never be controlable no matter what we try to do ,

asses the risk and asses the consequences of that risk , then act according to your own choice

hezzy

Most of this thread and the press is being taken up by the GW - who knows what kills someone under water if there are no witnesses around - like the guy missing from Cott.

There are Bull sharks in the Swan and research worldwide has proven them to be more aggressive than GW's. Look at the issues in the QLD canal system.

We need to think long and hard before we just blindly go culling them and take the risk of potentially destroying the most important ecosystem on the planet.

 Also don't get why there is a maximum size limits for sharks now adays when there are that many around. Not many would choose to take one home even if they were allowed to. 

We all know W.A doesn't mean Western Australia, it stands for wait awhile which our government will always be guily of, in the meantime while we wait how many more humans are we going to allow to be taken.

Im swaying each way... but more to the dont cull but i do know that there will be alot more GWs in the next few years thats forsure.

Had a talk last night about all this with a mate and he was saying how crazy i was for loving my rock fishing and how deadly that is.

Everything we do has risks. Just driving home from my work with all the trucks in welshpool in my opinion is more dangerous or if i rode a motorbike to and from work would be worse. I was first at the scene of a triple fatal last year and i think that was a worse way to go trust me.

I think its more that the tourism will be effected and also the whole terror of getting taken by a shark.

They said on the news that there now have been 3 fatals at that beach in a decade. What about how many car crash deaths in that same area?

What next, fence off steep point, Quobba, False entrance, Salmon holes and most of the rock fishing hot spots because of the death rate.

All we can do is take the utmost care like dont go in murky overcast days. Avoid sunrise and sunsets (unfortunatly these are the best times for surfing)

In saying all this i really DONT KNOW what the solution is. If culling brings the deaths down than so be it but i dont think it will. Im sure there are quite a few whites swimming around the surfers out there and one out of the blue will take a bite and thats all it takes so unless you kill them all they will still be there.  

I will be snorkling and rock fishing till the day i  die no matter how many deaths happen. I accept the risks. maybe a bit selfish for my partner and family but i enjoy life to the fullest    

Just my opinion

Marc, I agree with you point. Rock fishing is pretty easy to assess the risk. Yes, you can get the odd rogue wave, but for the most part if you take the right precautions you will be OK. I love rock fishing and wading the reefs at rotto. My wife thinks I am nuts and that I am risking leaving my children fatherless. She is correct...but that happens every time I hop in my car or cross the road.

GW's - now thats a different story. The only way to avoid them completely is to stay on dry land. 

Motor bikes are the same as Rock Fishing. You can take all the precautions you like...be as good a rider as you can be...all it takes is some driver not paying attention and you are toast.

As there arent really any risk mitigation options with sharks (GW's in particular) that is why the argument becomes very grey for some people...me included. I would love to get into diving but my fears put that to rest. But, for those who do wish to dive/surf/swim they really are playing a game of lottery. Most will go through life never even seeing a shark in the water, but all it takes is a one in a million encounter and you number is up.

No easy answer. As long as people have been on the earth they have been going in the water. Its not our domain, but we have always visited. It doesnt mean we are necessarily a welcome visitor.

For those that have lost someone to a shark, I offer my deepest sympathies.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/newshome/20025114/5m-shark-seen-at-gracetown-beach/

be nice if it had a tag in it , be much easier to track

hezzy

http://www.theinertia.com/surf/to-know-what-living-is-life-death-and-sharks-in-west-australia/

Hey guys been a diver for many years and previously totally accepted the risks based on the information/ data available. With the recent increase in attacks mostly fatal in most instances by alleged GW's my thoughts have changed somewhat.
We currently have a tagging system that is identifying tagged sharks in a area but only where recievers are placed and only really relevant at our major tourist beaches and probably little or no use the other users of the ocean Surfers/ Boaters/ Divers. This lack of really meaningfull usefull information to the public is only slightly reducing the risk of an attack.

The communications to the public without scaremongering is abysmal. The lack of a clear position regarding population and locations of the sharks allows the media to sensationalise every event. God only knows they often don't even show the right species of shark when breaking news. I would love to have some current well regarded scientific facts on actual numbers and location so that the public could make and informed decision before entering the water.

There appears no doubt the numbers have increased whether as a result of successful breeding years and or migration from other areas. Distance from the coast, food supply, water temps currents etc. do not alter the fact we have more and larger versions in our back yard. Yes I include the ocean as my back yard.

If we continue to tag out wide monitor in close and cull when an imminent threat is identified then we will not eliminate altogether but may get the odds back slightly in out favour. We should not fear going into the water because those in charge do not have the information to make a decision or lack the decision making and mental fortitude to do so.

To those that argue the cars on the road or other wild life causes of loss of human life I agree but whilst we live with these known risks we take steps to mitigate the risk. We have speed limits for a reason, we make it illegal to drink and drive, we remove potentially dangerous animals from around human population by relocation or eradication. It happens already it just seems the simplistic answer for the anti cull of the GW and to a lesser extent other sharks is to keep out of the water. This is not good enough and a shark attack or other water fatality should be a freak or rare event not something we are taking odds on.

My sincere condolences to the families and extended families that have been effected through these tragic events.

Big Bruce is back in Gracetown as we speak .. opportunity knocks to take this one out ..C'mon Colin get dinkum .. How do we know it's the same one responsible ? some may ask . Well we'll find out once we've chopped it up , commiserations to the sharks family in advance if it was a case of mistaken identity .

In some countries overseas they have a annual lottery you pay your fee for a ticket and they draw x ammount of tickets and those people get to go on a bear hunt or what ever hunt why not do the same thing with the great white the government keeps saying they have no money for this that or whatever else this is one way to bring in some $$$$ thin out a few sharks which by they are definately not endangered anymore and create some money to be used for research,tourism or probably the local fat ass buracats/polititions,

the other day trying to incite it by saying, are they waiting for a kid to die, oxygen thief!!, I keep saying what purpose do they serve and how many do we need