read it out, what if you get a 10kg fish, cut 6kgs off. When are they going to target the professionals, they are murdering our fish stocks JMO. Also see in the ST the Japanese shark fishing, all the sharks in the photo wonder where they caught them?
I can see a lot of tackleshops and industries going bust if this happens.
What will we do, well those with a few dollars will fly to some other part of the country / world to spend dollars catching fish. Others who can't afford it, well they will have to go to Coles or Kalis to buy as much dhuie, snapper etc that they can afford ( no limit, but the size of your pocket!!!)
so I'll catch my 5kg for the year and buy my other 50kg at Kalis....WTF how's that going to save the stocks, besides just making the stock price of Kalis and other Fishing groups shares go up and up!!!!
JMO
oh my solutuion: Make certain species a catch only to consume. IE no commercial catch of them, eg Baldies, Black-ass's & Dhuies, let the Pro's keep their 66% quota of pinkies and other funny snapper brands they catch.
Saving the Dhuie and the Baldie is simple, stop the heavy overfishing by the Pro's...simple
Well, except for the fact theres a fixed quantity per year. Not everyone will be able to get 50kg.
While I agree that commercial catch needs to get adjusted fairly (I dont think the current splits are fair), is preventing anyone who doesnt fish from being able to buy dhufish or baldie really the way to go? Or is it 'stuff anyone who doesnt fish' fine?
Rather stupid report though. Will be curious to see more details, because it looked like the assumptions were rather iffy.
Keep in mind, the amount per kilo per rec holder may be not much of that figure anyways. Not everyone with a RFBL actually catches many demersals a year. I would say that this forum has a much higher percentage of 'top fishos' than the general populace (just because people who are really into their fishing are likely to go out and catch more and also likely to spend time reading/talking/etc about fishing on forums).
As far as I can tell, the plan is not to limit people to X kg per year though, thats just the aim on the total. E.g. if 75% of people didnt catch any demersals a year then everyone else gets 4 times as much.
whats stopping me going into Kalis every week ( 52 in a year) and buying 1 kg of dhuie every time???
only my pocket mate. if a fish is under threat cut it's catch volume by commericial sector and recs. Remember no body polices the shopper on what he buys legally ( it's only morally wrong...)
Nothings stopping you from doing that, but there is a total catch quota that is stopping everyone from doing that. Not everyone will be able to get 50kg a year as the supplies just arent there.
Nobody polices the shopper because that catch has allready been policed, at the people who pulled it out of the ocean. How it gets distributed depends on supply and demand, but the supply is fixed. Everyone cant just buy twice as much fish as theres not twice as much fish to buy.
Rec rules are a way of acheiving rec quotas, what the fillet buyer does doesnt have any effect on the quanitity of fish bought. They use diff methods so they're not directly comparable.
Still, I think the ratios need to be adjusted and commercial and rec quotas need to both be adjusted, and not just increase the commercial percentage to what they want and give the scraps to the recs. It still needs to be fair.
Theres no way they can police it ,what a load of crap.I will not be paying for a licence to catch 4kg of fish .Well I have done my best over the years to stick to the rules but that rule would be one I may have trouble following .
Who buys Dhuie at the shops now anyway?(Probably Twiggy Forrest I know he can afford a $300 steak) And I'd really like to know what happens to all the fish the shops don't sell (Cat food?).Cut the commercial qouta and keep the current bag limts.
that I am either A. going to stop fishing, or B. move to another state where they have their shit together, and work together as a whole, to have a sustainable fishery for everyone involved, who at the end of the day are in it for the same reason. just my 2 cents worth
4kg per year. that is bullshit . it sounds like they think they own the fish thats one fish lol pathetic. im a fisherman, i fish all year, i eat my fish and will continue to do so until a sane non biased solution is found and this aint it. you would have to have an extremely low iq to even suggest it. PS JUST BECAUSE YOU MANAGE A RESOURCE DOES NOT MAKE YOU THE OWNER
Not sure about that Simo...Labor gets in marine parks gather sudden momentum...
Anyway, the details of the public meetings were in the column, I would urge people to attend and find out more, ask questions, and offer their thoughts.
Recfishwest wants feedback to take back to the government.
Have your say!
Also, written submissions can be put in until the end of September.
...I actually welcomed it with the hope that they would use the money to do something constructive for rec fishos, but now it appears they simply introduced it so they could get a handle on how many people go fishing from a boat, which then gives them a divisor so that they can work out how many kilos each person can have (238 tonnes divided by 66,000). And they made $1.8 million in the process.
Good 'ol WA...rather than spend money on doing proper research, police the shit out of everything and charge the public for doing it. That's how you save fish stocks, apparently.
And we should all know by now that threatening the government by not voting for them at the next election is a waste of time. Whatever party gets in is only going to be in it for themselves. Besides, if the Libs didn't get in, so what? They still get all the same lurks and perks as if they WERE in, but with none of the responsibility. What a great job...maybe I'll become a politician and keep switching parties everytime the one I'm with wins an election!
For all those who voted the Libs in at the last election because of Labs proposed season closures now that they are half way through their term and have had time to look at the figures things are not so hunky dorey after all and something of a knee jerk reaction is needed to get it back on track.
Now everyone has to suffer because of the rash political promises made to get into government, all pollies involved with this deserve more than a swift kick up the bum or better still, voted out at the next election.
There is no way that the government can put this through. IMO commericial fisherman are the reason for demersals fish species stocks having crashed so much in recent year also 80% of the catch is exported to countries like china and japan ( who have nothing left in there oceans) .Compared to the commercial fisherman recreational fisherman and recreational boaties , would spend a much higher ammount per annum on fishing gear , boats , engines , fuel etc , licences, insurancem etc plus we also support a huge ammount of the economy boat joints tackle shops etc. A document I recently viewed at university which i had to have special permission to view was on the biology and catch rate of the dhufish via commercial / professional fisherman and done over a period of 2 years. 40 to 60 percent of the dhufish which are caught on long lines and in nets are undersized fish ranging from 36-46 cm in length .Same with pink snapper the under sized fish 30 -40cm which are caught by the professional / commercial are referred to TABLE SNAPPER ( what a load ) . This is an undersized fish and the begginning of our fish stocks if that was a recreational fisherman we would be convicted by law with huge fines. Another issue to bring into this is the licences which the government have given Foreign countries to fish within our waters a classic example are the indonesians which supposedly fish the traditional ways in our waters ,but not to mention the countless ammount of boats and the times that they have been caught with long lines, shark finning and taking over there quota of trochus shells and reef dwelling fish species. Australia and western australia in particular is one of the last places on earth which is relativly intact and still has a bright positive future outcome for reviving and maintaining fish stocks of all highly prized demersal fish species. All within reach fro recreational fisherman to access not far from our shores.Majority of people these days are catching there own fish as to buying it anyways as it is a great family activity and catching your food is much more positive challenging and good for the body and life. Tourism in the industry is also another industry which can thrive with the removment of such activities by commercial fisherman. A case study i also read at university which was on the kruger national park ( one of the largest national parks in the world ) the issue was farming and mining , they wanted to be rid of the national park for these purposes , but an analysis was done on how much money would be made by mining and farming the land over ten years and by tourism revenue of the national park over 10 years and the results were amazing , showing that tourism over 10 years would make ten fold that of the mining and farming of the land. Our government really needs to stand up and reconize that money is not a solution to this problem and stopping recreational fishing and diminishing bag limits. Commercial fisherman and international fisherman from foreign countries are. As a recreational fisher , we return undersize fish and dont destroy the environment as much as a commercial fisherman does. I take great care returning undersized fish to preserve and promote the growth of our fish stocks for future generations. Just my opinion and i hope i dont offend anyone.
As someone who used to earn a living as a professional fisherman I suggest you need to go back and look at your figures especially who spends the most on gear, licences, fuels etc. The average cray fisherman has to fork out something in the area of $4k per pot on his licence even though as it is now he can only use about 40% of them, bait works out around $40 a box and up to 12 each day, pen fees and the big one FUEL, with most boats using a minimum of 50-60 litres an hour and this isn't even counting pots and ropes.
There hasn't been a boat longlining for demersal fish for something like 20+ years, drop lining yes but longlining again you're off the mark.
Table snapper you will find are brought in from states where their size limits are less than ours and for the bulk of the fish being exported , turn the tables around. Buy a piece of fish at you local fish and chip shop, Kailis' and Cicerello's included and you are eating imported rubbish, usually sourced from Tiawan or Vietnam.
The days of snapper being exported are long gone because of demand from quality eateries and resturants usually outweighs supply same goes for dhufish though to my knowledge hasn't been exported overseas.
we all know that its bullshit and that it comes from a couple of nerds in the dept that dont have the resouces to do the research to get the right answers so they guess and we end up taking it up the back door . this last load of of shit smells the same ( hit the poor stupid rec fisher with a load of shit and when he yells then give him a compromise deal where he thinks it better than the first one and you still get to f@5k him ).
and we are the dumb/silent mob that do nothing but bitch about it
IS THERE SOMEONE OUT THERE THAT COULD LEAD US OUT OF THIS CRAP ?
Y and B...Recfishwest wants to hear from you...that's why they are having info sessions. But don't be afraid to ring talkback radio and write to papers about it...the wider media will only pick up on it if there is public reaction.
A drop line is what I meant my mistake but the figures thAt I shared are correct look at the data that is the important part also you add up every single boaties costs in western Australia ancompare that to all co
mercial fisherman I think you will find it the other way round . An I think you are wrong on the table snapper when they say it's fresh from carnavon mate an it's 30 to 40 cm long ! My posts figures are correct an we are meant to be standing up for reccies not commercials ! They are the reason for the stock loss of fish and so is our weak government !
As a resident of Carnarvon and has regularly seen the fisheries boys inspecting the pros snapper and other fish sizes as they unload you are well off the mark on suggesting they are taking undersize snapper. All the fish are manually offloaded in to big iceboxes so its not a case of not having access to measure them.
If they were we could expect our local newspaper to be reporting on the cases appearing in court but there hasn't been one pro appearing in the last 5 years to my knowledge.
good to see this subject is finally getting some attention ................ people need to get along to these meetings in numbers and put submissions in asap .....30 sept is the closing date
below is a link to some info on the very active gill net and long line fishery we have on the wa coast , west coast and southern ......
sorry guys .i was trying to avoid the long post .but your right the link aint working
so the info is below re the long line stuff ,
the more people make comment on this IFAAC draft allocation in the paper the better .........and get to ameeting and make yourselves heard ..............im told only 5 rec fishers turned out to the gero meeting ???
apathy is our worst enemy here , been said before and is so true
hezzy
Western Australian Southern Demersal Gillnet and Demersal Longline Fishery
Other formats
This information is also available in the following format:
Background
Commercial fishing for sharks off the southern coast of Western Australia has occurred since the 1940s. Currently, two shark fisheries operate in this area. The JASDGDLF is managed cooperatively by the Western Australian and Australian Governments, with day-to-day management undertaken by Western Australia. The fishery extends southeast from Cape Bouvard, just north of Bunbury on the southern west coast, to the Western Australia – South Australia border (Fig. 29.1). Under a complementary management plan, Western Australia also manages a demersal gillnet–longline fishery that extends north from Cape Bouvard and catches many of the same species. The status of the major species of the two fisheries is assessed jointly. Annual production from the fishery is valued at approximately $4 million.
The principal species targeted in the JASDGDLF are gummy shark (Mustelus antarcticus), whiskery shark (Furgaleus macki) and dusky shark (Carcharhinus obscurus). Another 25 species of shark and scalefish are also caught regularly, the most common being sandbar shark (C. plumbeus), hammerhead shark (Sphyrnidae) and wobbegong shark (Orectolobidae) (McAuley & Baudains 2007a). School shark (Galeorhinus galeus) were historically targeted in the south-eastern region of the fishery but are currently a minor component of the fishery’s byproduct.
Logbook data for the fishery in 2005–06 indicated a total shark catch of 909 t. Reported dusky shark catches are mostly C. obscurus, but there is likely to have been some confounding with bronze whaler shark (C. brachyurus). Catches of scalefish, such as queen snapper (Nemadactylus valenciennesi), blue groper (Achoerodus gouldii) and dhufish (Glaucosoma hebraicum), have collectively totalled about 150 t per year in recent years.
Before 1980, most shark fishers in the region were part-time operators who also fished other entitlements. Specialised sharkfishing vessels became common in the 1980s and, as a result, fishing effort increased six-fold from 1980–81 to 1987–88. The JASDGDLF was declared limited entry in 1988, and a system of gear-time units was introduced to control fishing effort. Under the system, each fisher has an allocation of units, each of which allows the setting of a specified length of net for one month. Initially, each unit had a length of 600 m for gillnet or 200 hooks for longline. Gillnets used have 6.5–7 inch stretched mesh size. The permitted net length was reduced to 540 m in 1992, and subsequently to 270 m of 20-mesh drop or 324 m of 15-mesh drop.
Before the changes introduced in 2006 (described below), the JASDGDLF units permitted the use of either 270 m of gillnet (regardless of mesh size) or 90 demersal longline hooks for one month (McAuley & Baudains 2007a).
In 2006, the Western Australian Government introduced a number of changes in all commercial fisheries to reduce mortality for shark species, especially dusky shark and sandbar shark. The changes, made explicitly to bring the fisheries back to 2001–02 effort levels, include the protection of all sharks and rays (other than the target species), a maximum size limit for dusky shark, additional controls on the use of longline, and the conversion of monthly gear units to daily gear units. Closures from 16 August to 15 October have also been introduced in continental-shelf waters west of 118°E to protect whiskery sharks during their pupping season.
In the 2005–06 fishing season, there were 57 licences in the JASDGDLF; however, fewer than half that number were active during the preceding decade. Fishing effort in 2005–06 was 143 000 km gillnet hours (standardised to include longline effort), 18% lower than in 2004–05 (174 000 km gillnet hours) and close to target levels.
Before 2006–07, monitoring and assessment in the JASDGDLF was based on analysis of monthly catch and effort statistics. In 2006–07, a more detailed daily/trip catchand- effort system was introduced. Unfortunately, the new requirements have been problematic for some fishers, and catch statistics since 2005–06 require validation (McAuley 2008a).
In 2009, the fishery was granted approved Wildlife Trade Operation (WTO) status under the Environment Protection and Biodiversity Conservation Act 1999 (EPBC Act) until 2012.
Status of the stocks
The fishery is managed primarily through setting effort levels intended to achieve target biomass levels of 40% of the initial level for the key target species. The timeframe for achieving the target level varies from species to species.
Gummy shark
Effort levels are intended to achieve gummy shark biomass levels of 40% of the initial level by 2010. The most recent assessment of Western Australian gummy shark (1998) was that its biomass, at 43% of the initial level, was slightly above the target. Gummy shark catches from the two southern gillnet and longline fisheries peaked at 500 t in 1991–92, but declined subsequently. Most of the catch is taken in the JASDGDLF, where the 2001–02 catch of gummy shark (343 t) was 40% higher than in the previous year. There have been further catch increases since then (456 t in 2003–04, 460 t in 2004–05 and 451 t in 2005–06). Development of an updated assessment model for the stock is a priority; until that happens, status is assessed through monitoring of catch and catch-rate data.
Whiskery shark
Effort levels are intended to achieve whiskery shark biomass levels of 40% of initial levels by 2010. Previous assessments indicated that the whiskery shark biomass declined until 2002–03, but that this decline had slowed since the late 1990s and biomass was around 35% of initial levels. A 2004 assessment indicated only about a 24% likelihood that whiskery shark would reach its target level by 2010. Activation of latent effort was seen to be limiting the possibility for this stock to rebuild, suggesting the need for additional management measures. Subsequent management changes appear to have improved the situation: the best estimate of total biomass is that it reached 36% of its unfished level in 2005–06.
Dusky shark
Effort levels are intended to achieve dusky shark biomass levels of 40% of initial levels by 2040. Most dusky sharks taken by the fishery are juveniles. Demographic analyses estimated that fishing mortality on this component of the population was sustainable, but that the future viability of the fishery would be compromised by catches of older dusky shark elsewhere. Declining catch rates throughout southwestern Australia suggest that the breeding population has been depleted and recruitment has declined. There has been concern that the incidental catch of dusky shark in the commonwealth-managed Western Tuna and Billfish Fishery could deplete the population, although economic conditions have led to strong declines in fishing effort in that fishery in recent years.
A marked increase in the use of hooks by Western Australian shark fishers from the mid-1990s increased the catches of large dusky shark (and sandbar shark). A recent demographic study indicated that the species is less productive than previously thought, and that combined removals by fishing and natural mortality have depleted the breeding stock. The recent management changes, particularly in the northern shark fisheries (section 29.3), might take more than a decade to become evident in available data.
Dusky shark are considered to be overfished (McAuley 2008a), and the status of this species was a major factor in recent management changes.
School shark
School shark are also taken in the JASDGDLF; hence, future management of school shark must take into account its overfished status in the Southern and Eastern Scalefish and Shark Fishery. Assessments of school shark in that fishery take into account catches from the JASDGDLF. The 2004–05 school shark catch in the JASDGDLF was 4 t.
but try as i might the date is not chaning to 1 April. What a joke I hate to say this all the buha on labours original 4 month ban I found myself not really fishing due to the weather during that period and now we have less limits and 2 month ban and a 4kg of fish limit per year farkin funny shit and as said before how do they plan to police this one and what happens if we catch a fish over 4 kg mmm dilemas I guess we could throw half back ?
Quote "Catches of scalefish, such as queen snapper, blue groper and dhufish have collectively totalled about 150 t per year".........
that's a fair amount of profitable "bycatch" in any one's books. surely this practice cannot be sustainable.
why can't they just line fish and get ride of these shameful nets. there are alot of pro's out there that do this, but just not in WA.
Sounds like typical WA though, living in the past and destroying the future!
Who ever is in control of Western Australian fisheries should be very ashamed that they allow for commercial demersal gill netting and the rec and pro gill netting in estuarys (fish breeding grounds) to take place. The fish just don't have a chance.
If we all had to live by size limits ie pros and recs same limits then I dont see why the need for this extreeme controll as afterall is the purpose of size limits not there to ensure fish reproductive cycles ? if we pull a few 50cm snapper out that have bread what is it 3-6 cycles ? ( I aint actually have a clue guessing here) if pros would only life by that rule it should not require such an extreeem controll but they do get to take everything and keep everything they catch ...
Thtas because pro's cant control what they catch like us reccies we get a fish on straight away we pull it up , with pros its just a big drop line they set and by the time they pull it up everything on the line is basically dead .
Introduce a boat fishing licence and then use the numbers against us. There are 3 licenses in my house, but only I fish for demersals. The guy I work with has 5 licenses in his house and none of them fish for demersals. But this government sees fit to say that all 66,ooo license holders fish for demersals.
Introduced new bag limits i.e 1 dhu per person and then don't even wait to see the effect of the new bag/boat limits. Poor science, how do they know that new bag limits are not working.
How can they allocate 65% OF A PUBLIC RESOURCE to the proffessions. Maybe the proffesional fisherman should be like the mining industry and pay a royalty for making money out of a public resource. If the fish stocks are in such a bad state, perhaps the proffessionals should be removed from the fishery altogether.
In the latest round of increases for the pros is a 7% "royalty"payment on each kg of fish they catch over and above all the licences and permits they already have to pay.
just spoken to recfishwest and they have clarified that the draft allocation of dhufish in the west coast zone will remain at approx 50/50 based on 05-06 catch data.36/70 allocation is for the overall scale-fish fishery.
Get rid of the commercials i say we have already had bag limits cut licences brought in what else more do they want in the end it will defeat the purpose of hAvin a boat if we can't catch anything decent !
No offense carnavonite but I can't see that out of every fish that the pros pull up which are pink snapper that they are all legal sizes ? Iv seen in fresh seafood markets carnavon snapper n they are tiny like 30 to 40 cm like I have previously stated . Also if they don't bring In the small s apper that they. Catch do they throw dead fish away ? ?
They have to put undersize fish back, the same as you do and their penalties are ten times what an amateurs are plus the risk of losing their licence altogther wich is worth a couple of hundred grand leaving them with a boat worth next to nothing because of the flood of ex crayboats already on the market.
DhuBoi, caranarvite, old fart and I've seen under size (for amateurs to catch) in our IGA superstore here in Spearwood, advertised as pan size pink snapper. Old fart has many a time commented to the fish monger there about the size of snapper and also their advertising for Dhueifish, which they incorrectly labelled jewfish (eastern states) as our dhuie, they were selling them whole and no way they were dhuie's,
I've also stated on here what old fart and I have seen caught in the two month ban last year in Leeman, and I'm telling you fellas it was disgusting, bloody beautiful 15kg or more breeders of dhuie, snapper, they'd have to go to the second bank in Leeman to caught those size fish, it made my heart ache to see them especially when the so called experts say its peek breeding time for the dhuie and other fish. This particular pro fisherman in Leeman brags how he catches 300kgs of dhuie each year, yes he has had his days curtailed but he still catches a endangered species and we the amateur have our hands tied for two months a year and now maybe more cuts to our bag limit
Please can someone tell me who would supply quality local fish to the people who, for some reason or another cannot catch, be given from a friend or buy a feed if there was no pros because of a some greedy fisherfolk who demand that the pros licences be bought out. I would guarantee that there are more of these people than boat owners, rec fisherpersons etc and their voice is being heard by the pollies the same as yours is.
So can someone offer some advice on where it would come from when already there are warnings not to eat Nile Perch and a lot of imported rubbish with high risks of catching diseases from inhygenic growing and packing conditions. Ask yourself, would you buy it? Not me I'm afraid.
We sell our barra to a local Perth supermarket, the problem is the amount of barra you need to grow to get a good return on investment, the costs of production are generally very high. Especially the amount of infrastructure you need to host that many fish, we have 10 growout tanks - 8 at 6t and 2 at 12t and can hold about 13,000 fish give or take. The cost recovery is very low, we'd need to do 70-100000 to be really viable. The problem is the market is still very demanding for fresh 'natural' fish and because its available, the demand for cultured fish is diminished at this point in time.
We have been looking at faster growing species and are getting close with dolphinfish, we are also looking at trout, octapus, jacks, cobia or anything that may be grown on at a decent rate.
I can't beleive that ? So they are false advertising fish such as snapper which arefrom western Australi. And are only 30 to 40 cm long ? I don't think so like a post said previously pros keep what they catch ! Wheredo table snapper come from if the sign sais carnavon or shark bay on the sign ? An the by time a pro pulls his drop line up majority of the fish hooked are dead undersize or not ! Buyin all pros licences is impossible but buyin majority will work , majoirty of people own boats now anyways ! If this rule does go ahead which it won't becuz it is impossible to implement I won't be following it nor buyin dhufish for 80 bucks a kilo ! As I previously stated n posts tourism fishing industry could really benefit from gettin rid of majority of pro fisherman !
Take a drive down any street and see how many DON'T have boats and the ones that do how many people have their name on the rego papers for it??
If an undersize fish comes up dead or alive it goes back, that is the law, like it or not. I don't and never have liked it but thats the way it is.
As for where the so called table snapper come from, ask the person selling it because I'm certain it doesn't come from WA if its only 30-40cm.
Aqua culture in time will supply some of the market but not in the next ten or fifteen years. Adam may be able to give an insight to this.
The fish they are concentrating on are the fastest growing species so that it keeps the production cost down, eg, yellowtail kings, dolphin fish, barra, atlantic salmon etc but its still got a long way to go to make a dent in the total catch.
Compare the taste of an imported cultured prawn that has grown up swimming in its own waste with a wild caught one and I know which one you will prefer.
Yeh I know what quality is i'm not at university for no reason! Something needs to be done as you said fish farmin and aqua culture is a partial solution but cuttin catch rate of reccies will not fix anything!
Tell that to the experts in fisheries, they are the ones who put the figures before the pollies. And while you are at it tell your local politician that you are not happy and he will be looking for a change of job after the next election of something isn't done about it and done now.
The pros are taking a heck of a beating as well as the amateur and I can bet they are doing some talking to thei local member as well.
they only get the "3.6 kilo figure" by dividing the draft allocated catch by the number of rfbl's - (rec fishing from boat licence).
there will not be a fisheries inspector chopping up fish at the ramp.
the tac (total allowable catch) for rec fishers - lets say for dhufish remains as it did last year - it just sounds like bugger all because the kilo figure is divided by every boat that holds an rfbl but not all fish for dhufish.
yip and thats why all three of our family now have a RFBL, so we can get our 3x3.6 kilos as a family then... :-)
Also as long as the end of the year total take by all rec fishermen going for dermals still averages out at 3.6kg then we fine, this means some will get zero for the year as they did not fish or targeted other species or are just cr@p. and others will have say 10kg and some even more. So we back to what I want to see is a max take for the anglers as well for the year per angler. Still keep the average, but limit the top 5% of guns out there to say 20kg a year or 5 dhuies etc.... ( just think about it for awhile before you shoot it down)
I can see where you're coming from Tony, but the primary problem still remains in that 50+ pro's are still allowed 900 tonnes of fish/ year AND still allowed to strip fish populations during OUR closure.
We've already sacrificed enough and, personally, I'm not prepaired to yield any further.
It's time that the MANAGERS OF OUR CONSTITUTIONAL FISH STOCKS, stopped believing it's a resource to be mined.
They manage what is ours....THEY DON'T OWN IT!!!
Dhufish are an emotive animal ....The Pro's are the problem and need to accept that in order to stop biomass depletion...they need to stop mining 900 tonnes per year and leaving habitats stripped bare.
RECREATIONAL FISHERMEN ARE FARMERS.....PROFESSIONAL FISHERMEN ARE MINERS
This argument is at least a thousand years old and resolution seems to be no closer now than when the romans were growing tilapia in BC.
It is certainly an argument that gets the juices flowing, there are many stakeholders in the game. Pros, reccys and consumers all want the same thing......good stocks of wild fish.....cheap.
The recreational catch has been traditionally very hard to quantify and the Pros are proctective of their data as it can be used against them (creative accounting)
Both parties there are fighting for the same thing, but against each other.
I love a good argument, I love a good resolution more.
Not all fish you see in the shops come from our fisheries. I have asked befor and actually found that snapper for example that are undersize may come from areas were there are legal to cathc them. Also from some form of aquacultra.
As a owner of two boats, a holder of a RFBL i hope they never ban comercial boats as the only fish i eat are from the shops/markets.
Not everyone can be bothered catching, killing and cleaning there own fish.
I do think the proposal is stupid though and honestly can't believe we are even having to consider combating the stupidness of it.
We should all (Rec Fishers) register ourselves in Norman Moores electorate Geraldton & come the next State election get rid of him & his large commercial Mates that own conglomerates in the area.
Obviously we all have our say about this topic online, however actions speak louder than words, so lets see everyone down at Femantle on Wed or wherever you local meeting is being held & let the recreational fishermen be heard. The more people, the more we are taken seriously!!
I'm suprised none of the tackle shop owners or boat yard guys have made any comments on this. They're the ones who are going to suffer the most. I wonder what the percentage drop in sales would need to be for these guys to go bust?
Who's going to buy a boat over 6 metres to go fishing for bloody whiting and herring?
I realise fishing is also a sport and catch and release is great but if you eat a lot of fish then why not keep one every now and again. It's that or buy it from the shop and then what's the difference, the fish still end up dead. Is it because the government gets the good old GST from that sale???
As for the politicians, they're only good for one thing and that is cray bait. Maybe we should invite the idiots who have come up with this scam out for a days fishing. I wonder how many crays they could catch.
At the end of the day, if we don't stand up and make ouselves heard, either by going to the meeting or sending in our opinion through the website, then we shouldn't winge and complain when shit hits the fan and this bill gets passed and we all end up screwed.
after reading this article and post,i will be down at fremantle sailing club tomorrow night to stand up and be counted,so i say we should all be there to voice our concerns,that is a load of crap,first you pay your fishing licence only to cop it in the bum, thats not on
no mention of allocating kilo's per fisherman, as Salmo said it is an oversimplification of the total allocation.
The good points I see in the report are that they recognise the limitations in the creel survey data and have boosted this data when doing the comparison with commercial take. This results in a greater share for rec than would otherwise have been allocated.
Questions I would ask at the meeting if I were there are as follows:
Is the percentage allocation of total allowable catch (currently suggested to be 66 / 34) to be set in concrete once agreed? In other words as population pressures increase will the split change and if historical catch comparisons have driven the current allocation what would happen if future catch actuals are way different to the allocated split?
How will the TAC be monitored and will unused capacities be re-allocated to the other sector if such a thing occurs?
With the metro catch of cat 1 species being solely Rec, how is this going to be allocated as a % of TAC for those species? Will there be variations between zones given the different shared / exclusive resource models that exist in these zones?
The allocation appears to be based solely on existing percentage take and has no consideration for other equally important factors such as - economic value - cultural value - tourism value. Why hasn't that been taken into account?
The impact of future aquaculture projects on meeting local seafood consumption demand will eventually need to be taken into consideration. As this market grows and takes a larger slice of the commercial seafood consumption then provision should be made for reallocation of TAC of wildfish stocks to the recreational sector, where value add per tonne caught would be a major economic boost. Is there provision for including the impact of aquaculture in any of the IFAAC draft? If there isn't then we are simply moving towards the export of our wildfish resources at the expense of the local recreational fishing community. That's not good.
Anyway, just a few quick points on my take of the report. I haven't studied it in detail but have read through once. I may have missed something but the above are the gaps in the report that I noticed. I recommend everyone reads the report before going to the meeting.
I think the 4kg per person is a bit of an oversimplification and the management of the allocated split is what should concern everyone more.
Basically what I think it is saying is today we think the wildfish recource can withstand x tonnes annually in terms of extraction. They want to split it between the two sectors and have used historical catch datea to do this. The fact that many people have caught more than 1 dhufish in the past has nothing to do with the end tonnage achieved by the entire sector. Thats where the split is not in terms of per person.
I am in favour of a TAC as such as there needs to be a cap on what is taken out in order to maintain sustainable fishing. Where more dialogue needs to be undertaken is on how this split will be managed during a fishing season and how the split percentages should be decided in the first place. I firmly believe that $ per kilo spent in the rec sector is far greater than the dollars per kilo spent in the commercial sector. I would love to see someone do a study that provides figures that back it up. Maybe something for an economics major at Uni to do in his/her spare time.
Some very good points there, especially in terms of value. I doubt many people at all come even close to acheiving even $80/kg. I would be very scary to consider just how much each kilo of fish costs us to get via recreational methods. Of course, most people, myself included dont go fishing because its a cheaper way of getting fish fillets.
I think it should be obvious that on average, and for the vast majority of people, the cost per kilo if you were to work it out that way is many many times more than the retail cost at a fish market. It cant possibly be more cost efficient, as if it was, the commercials would be doing that instead (getting small trailer boats and catching fish on rods and reels). But they dont tend to use these methods, so its obvious they arent as cost effective. It certainly would be interesting to see just how much more it is. The figure would be a bit scary, but if the government realises that recs spend say 5-10 times as much per kilo, then the resource should be allocated with consideration to this. Putting it in cold hard dollar figures is likely to get more attention than some uneducated pollie with no clue as to how recs operate (e.g. not knowing what bottom bouncing was ) just assuming because they have the commercial total cost and none for recs that that is how it is.
The economic value of the 2001 westcoast wetline fishery was $5.3m. so if the commercial sector in the West Coast Fishery caught 900 tonnes of fish, then that makes 5,300,000 divided by 900,000 = $5-89 per kilo
I'd hate to think what it costs me to catch a kilo of fish and I reckon I would be a lower cost than a great many others but a darn sight more than $5-89.
Something to ponder.
My disclaimer is that I've plucked these numbers out of various reports and havent cross referenced them so they are probably very inaccurate, but in the absence of anything else perhaps its a starting point for someone to delve a little deeper and get some better numbers.
Would be interesting just to add up all the revenues from fishing shops, licenses and boat yards (weighted to number of fishing vs other boats) as a start. Of course, the real cost is much higher, but would be interesting if those alone were approaching or even more than the total commercial value.
Even looking at fishing licenses alone, at 66,000 times thats about $2 million alone. Not to mention all the other licenses. And I suspect nearly all who got a RFBL spent several time more on gear, bait, fuel, etc. Not to mention they would also have to have access to a boat and all associated costs (e.g. rego, maintenance, etc). Not all will have boats, but even divide by 10 and it wouldnt be a small figure.
just ake a few simple figures of
66,000 x $200 per person per year as a very low figure for what we send on fishing,
then add in some hard core nuts ( say 5% of the RFBL holders ) that spend say $1000 a year above that
then say 500 new boats and motors etc a year ( let's be conservative and use a $5000 figure for guys just buying for fishing only... tinnies upto 5m basic rigs)
66000x200 = $13,2m
66000x5%x$1000 = $3,3m
500x$5000 = $2.5m
Thats easily $19m before you go into the detail.
My gut feel is the Rec Fishing industry must be worth at least $50m a year to WA in direct fishing related expenses.
I think you need to rethink that figure Tony. An EPIRB is around $500 alone.
The average bottom bouncing outfit can be $400 on average just for rod and reel.
10 blocks of mulies is $100
If I spent $7000 last month on fishing gear, which dont tell the wife, the next fish will be worth that. Beats $5.89 a kilo hey.
Someone needs to do a Creel type report on recreational fish value. It probably works out at $200 a kilo and theres no tax deduction on that either.
If a bloke spends $60000 on a recreational fishing boat just to cover the boat alone without fuel or any other equipment fuel or bait he or she would have to catch a 1000 kilograms of fish. Thats just the boat.
A well written report might scare a few pollies about the money that might otherwise be spent instead in Bali by the pool which is a massively growing trend.
How much is that fish worth? Where we will the recreational fishing economy go?
I wouldnt want to be in the tackle industry in the next 5 years. It doesnt look good.
yes I know, my wife MUST NEVER know what I spend on gear :-)
but if you take the bottom average punter who just busy a Kmart outfit and goes two or three times a year as the bench mark lower end, and guys that will buy one good reel or rod a year, they will fall in the $1000~$2000 range,
Idiots like me, you and others can spend easily over $10k a year on fishing and boating gear, let alone fuel, bait etc...
I will find the report done by the Peel Region on the ecconomic effect of the horse ownership industry as an example.
People where shocked when the real ecconomic figure came in that each horse genrates $1000 ~ $2000 per month of income to region for recreational horses and twice that figure for privately owned race horses / sport-show-jumpers etc!
I know cause I got hay-burners as well...lol
That report took into account everything from sales of horse feed, to labor on the farms / stables, fuel for floats and drivers, training, tourism outrides, betting & gambling from horse racing, cattering at the race tracks / tabs, beer sold even.
The total value of Australian imports of fisheries products increased by 24% in 1999-2000, to an estimated $1,092m (table 17.13), although Australia remained a net exporter of fisheries products. Easily the biggest contributor to this rise was the value of imports of pearls, which trebled to $225m; as already indicated, this is mainly due to a revision in the treatment of trade data. Imports of frozen fillets (worth $175m) increased by 11% to remain in value terms the largest edible fisheries product imported, accounting for 16% of the total value of imported fisheries products. The next most valuable imported items were canned fish and prawns, worth $158m and $148m respectively. The main countries of origin of imported fisheries products were Thailand (22% of total import value), New Zealand (14%) and the United States of America (7%).
1100 million dollars of imorts in 2000, 10 years ago
I guess it is the retail spending that keeps a lot of guys in business? The Pro's don't have the same size of job creation as the rec's. Am I right or wrong here? Something to think about, after all rec fishing should be classified as an industry on its own, why, because it supports so many other industries, Boating shops, boat yards, storage, fishing tackle shops, diving shops etc etc. I don't think we realise what damage the econnomy will suffer if this industry gets hurt.
I think the rec fish fishery in WA is probably a lot more than we expect with all the ad ons. The rec fishery just for bonefish in florida is a Billion dollars per annum. (all catch and release)
I think that based on our family and my average catch rate I would think that the cost per kilo expensed by a rec fisherman is going to be around 10 times that of a commercially caught fish. Here is my working out, which I think is very conservative, and I know a heck of a lot of fisho's that would catch far less fish than my boat does with twice the effort, so these numbers are on the low side:
$500 per annum in Insurance
$500 per annum in engine services
$150 boat rego
$150 trailer rego
$60 RFBL x 2
$1200 fuel avg $80 per trip and about 15 trips per year
$600 Bait and terminal tackle ($40 per trip)
$500 misc tackle (not counting rods and reels)
$2250 Boat depreciation (cost of my $45k boat spread over a 5% dep'n scale)
$5910 total cost per year minimum
Total catch would average say 7kgs of demersal fish per trip times 15 trips = 105kgs of demersal fish.
$5910 divided by 105 = $56.29 per kilo.
Thats just a bit more than the $5-89 per kilo assumed to be the economic contribution of the west coast wet line fishery based on those earlier numbers.
That's what the pollies need to consider when apportioning the take of these species.
I have nothing against the commercial fishing industry as they are seeking to be sustainable just as much as the recs, but I take exception to the slicing of the pie in a way that disproportionately favours the commercial sector based solely on historical catches.
Sure fred bloggs down the road that can't afford a boat still wants to have fish once a week, but I challenge anyone to say that the enjoyment Fred gets out of eating his fish (even if it is cooked by a masterchef finalist) is anything like the degree of enjoyment anyone on here would get from catching cooking and eating a fish we have spent thousands of dollars chasing, endless hours talking about, countless days and nights spent in eager anticipation of the weather clearing, terrabites worth of computer space devoted to our fishing pics which give us enjoyment years and decades after the event. I am sure Fred Bloggs won't be drooling over his picture of his masterchef prepared basa fillet for years to come.
Besides the economic contibution a rec caught fish generates, what about the enjoyment factor! I know my kids enjoy a a birdseye fish finger the same as anyones kids but that doesnt compare to the enjoyment we share when they catch a good fish all by themselves.
Andy is 100% right, I deliberately simplified the figures in the Sunday Times column to capture people's attention, and then hoped it would encourage them to dig deeper and want to seek more information on what is being planned with IFM allocation.
And I hope it worked...130-140 people turned up tonight, passionate about the future of rec fishing.
I applaud everyone who turned up for taking the time to be there and hope the upcoming meetings also are well attended.
I was there and it i don't think they were expecting (or wanted) that many people to show up. Everyone was backed out the entrance. Well done for the people who went, to be honest i expected a few more but it was good to hear peoples thoughts and concerns. Now we just need to get submissions and wait to see how they react!
Well done to those that went,
I was still up north on the mines, but I was thinking last night that we should have a real show of force to stop any silly bugger anticts by the pollies again!
dale ....yeh , there will be several more meetings ,
busso is the 4th august at 6.30 pm royal palm hotel
bunbury will be the 5th august 6.30pm at the sanctuary golf club
due to the level of attendance , recfishwest are currently organising for another metro meeting , north of the river at hillarys , then jurien and a re grab at gero ..............so you guys will get to attend one
if you pm me your email addy ill send ya some info to pass around on the schedule /agenda etc .and key point s so far dale , same for any one else who wishes
tonights meeting in mandurah had a good attendance , about 110 , and some good issues where raised , and the committe i think got a good feel for the depth of the rec fishers sentiments on their draft
here are three documents produced to show ecconomic impact of the horse and racing industries on the Peel Region.
We need the smae done for Recreational Fishing impact,
local, tourism, charters, businesses effected etc.
ps, read the Thoroughbred racing industry figures and be shocked that those nags are worth $6billion a year in GDP to Australia.
So whats Rec & Tourism fishing worth????
note Rocklobster was only worth $14m a year to the Peel region in 2004/2005! I bet the recfishing industry was worth triple that for that region.
yip, I would wonder if these days with less boats out now inn 2010 season what the benefit would be now? Prices of lobster / crays where much better back in 2004 than last season after the GFC.
even at $1,4m per boat, thats the total input /output GDP value. What is the turn over of a crayboat in a season ( all costs), plus the land based processors and auxcillary costs? would it be $1,5m per boat per season? I can't answer this, but some of you can
.thumbnail.JPG "my 4th 59cm live bait caught released")
Colt_Striker
Posts: 624
Date Joined: 26/07/09
Paper hasn't come in up here
Paper hasn't come in up here yet, Was that in the Comics section???
roberta
Posts: 2773
Date Joined: 08/07/08
Yes old fart
read it out, what if you get a 10kg fish, cut 6kgs off. When are they going to target the professionals, they are murdering our fish stocks JMO. Also see in the ST the Japanese shark fishing, all the sharks in the photo wonder where they caught them?
Ginger Tablets Rock
NightWolf
Posts: 641
Date Joined: 11/06/10
here is a scan f the artical
here is a scan f the artical in the paper for all to see
dirrect link http://img19.imageshack.us/f/scan0001r.png/
Tony Halliday
Posts: 2500
Date Joined: 14/06/07
I can see a lot of
I can see a lot of tackleshops and industries going bust if this happens.
What will we do, well those with a few dollars will fly to some other part of the country / world to spend dollars catching fish. Others who can't afford it, well they will have to go to Coles or Kalis to buy as much dhuie, snapper etc that they can afford ( no limit, but the size of your pocket!!!)
so I'll catch my 5kg for the year and buy my other 50kg at Kalis....WTF how's that going to save the stocks, besides just making the stock price of Kalis and other Fishing groups shares go up and up!!!!
JMO
oh my solutuion: Make certain species a catch only to consume. IE no commercial catch of them, eg Baldies, Black-ass's & Dhuies, let the Pro's keep their 66% quota of pinkies and other funny snapper brands they catch.
Saving the Dhuie and the Baldie is simple, stop the heavy overfishing by the Pro's...simple
Tony Halliday: ~Meals on Reels ~
It takes a strong fish to swim against the current. Even a dead one can float with it
"It is always in season for old men to learn." Aeschylus (525-456 BC)
"In a mad world only the mad are sane." Akira Kurosawa (1910-1998)
hlokk
Posts: 4293
Date Joined: 04/04/08
"( no limit, but the size of
"( no limit, but the size of your pocket!!!)"
Well, except for the fact theres a fixed quantity per year. Not everyone will be able to get 50kg.
While I agree that commercial catch needs to get adjusted fairly (I dont think the current splits are fair), is preventing anyone who doesnt fish from being able to buy dhufish or baldie really the way to go? Or is it 'stuff anyone who doesnt fish' fine?
Rather stupid report though. Will be curious to see more details, because it looked like the assumptions were rather iffy.
Keep in mind, the amount per kilo per rec holder may be not much of that figure anyways. Not everyone with a RFBL actually catches many demersals a year. I would say that this forum has a much higher percentage of 'top fishos' than the general populace (just because people who are really into their fishing are likely to go out and catch more and also likely to spend time reading/talking/etc about fishing on forums).
As far as I can tell, the plan is not to limit people to X kg per year though, thats just the aim on the total. E.g. if 75% of people didnt catch any demersals a year then everyone else gets 4 times as much.
Tony Halliday
Posts: 2500
Date Joined: 14/06/07
whats stopping me going into
whats stopping me going into Kalis every week ( 52 in a year) and buying 1 kg of dhuie every time???
only my pocket mate. if a fish is under threat cut it's catch volume by commericial sector and recs. Remember no body polices the shopper on what he buys legally ( it's only morally wrong...)
Tony Halliday: ~Meals on Reels ~
It takes a strong fish to swim against the current. Even a dead one can float with it
"It is always in season for old men to learn." Aeschylus (525-456 BC)
"In a mad world only the mad are sane." Akira Kurosawa (1910-1998)
hlokk
Posts: 4293
Date Joined: 04/04/08
Nothings stopping you from
Nothings stopping you from doing that, but there is a total catch quota that is stopping everyone from doing that. Not everyone will be able to get 50kg a year as the supplies just arent there.
Nobody polices the shopper because that catch has allready been policed, at the people who pulled it out of the ocean. How it gets distributed depends on supply and demand, but the supply is fixed. Everyone cant just buy twice as much fish as theres not twice as much fish to buy.
Rec rules are a way of acheiving rec quotas, what the fillet buyer does doesnt have any effect on the quanitity of fish bought. They use diff methods so they're not directly comparable.
Still, I think the ratios need to be adjusted and commercial and rec quotas need to both be adjusted, and not just increase the commercial percentage to what they want and give the scraps to the recs. It still needs to be fair.
Tony Halliday
Posts: 2500
Date Joined: 14/06/07
I agree, fair suck of the
I agree, fair suck of the sauce for all!
Tony Halliday: ~Meals on Reels ~
It takes a strong fish to swim against the current. Even a dead one can float with it
"It is always in season for old men to learn." Aeschylus (525-456 BC)
"In a mad world only the mad are sane." Akira Kurosawa (1910-1998)
JR JetSki
Posts: 247
Date Joined: 23/04/10
Wonder how they are going to
Wonder how they are going to control it?
JR JetSki
JR JetSki
Posts: 247
Date Joined: 23/04/10
Think Kayak fishing will
Think Kayak fishing will soar and maybe JetSki fishing as well lol?
JR JetSki
Paul G
Posts: 5215
Date Joined: 12/12/07
Theres no way they can
Theres no way they can police it ,what a load of crap.I will not be paying for a licence to catch 4kg of fish .Well I have done my best over the years to stick to the rules but that rule would be one I may have trouble following .
Active Gyp-Rok solutions ,Residential and commercial ceilings and walls
Colt_Striker
Posts: 624
Date Joined: 26/07/09
I agree with you on that
I agree with you on that Paul, always stick to the rules but that one would tear it. It would be near imposible for them to Police.
sea-kem
Posts: 15247
Date Joined: 30/11/09
Who buys Dhuie at the shops
Who buys Dhuie at the shops now anyway?(Probably Twiggy Forrest I know he can afford a $300 steak) And I'd really like to know what happens to all the fish the shops don't sell (Cat food?).Cut the commercial qouta and keep the current bag limts.
Love the West!
barneyboy
Posts: 1392
Date Joined: 08/01/09
there is so much conjecture in the WA fishery as a whole
that I am either A. going to stop fishing, or B. move to another state where they have their shit together, and work together as a whole, to have a sustainable fishery for everyone involved, who at the end of the day are in it for the same reason. just my 2 cents worth
FEEEISH ONNN!!!
fishcrazy
Posts: 1235
Date Joined: 27/01/07
pure crap
4kg per year. that is bullshit . it sounds like they think they own the fish thats one fish lol pathetic. im a fisherman, i fish all year, i eat my fish and will continue to do so until a sane non biased solution is found and this aint it. you would have to have an extremely low iq to even suggest it. PS JUST BECAUSE YOU MANAGE A RESOURCE DOES NOT MAKE YOU THE OWNER
Simo_
Posts: 1843
Date Joined: 13/11/06
What a load of crap... I
What a load of crap... I cant wait till the state election so we can get rid of the Barnett government... F#@king Libs!!!
Bring on April
scottywiper
Posts: 247
Date Joined: 09/03/08
Not sure about that
Not sure about that Simo...Labor gets in marine parks gather sudden momentum...
Anyway, the details of the public meetings were in the column, I would urge people to attend and find out more, ask questions, and offer their thoughts.
Recfishwest wants feedback to take back to the government.
Have your say!
Also, written submissions can be put in until the end of September.
The two reports are at www.fish.wa.gov.au
Cheers,
Scotty
Auslobster
Posts: 1901
Date Joined: 03/05/08
FBL...
...I actually welcomed it with the hope that they would use the money to do something constructive for rec fishos, but now it appears they simply introduced it so they could get a handle on how many people go fishing from a boat, which then gives them a divisor so that they can work out how many kilos each person can have (238 tonnes divided by 66,000). And they made $1.8 million in the process.
Good 'ol WA...rather than spend money on doing proper research, police the shit out of everything and charge the public for doing it. That's how you save fish stocks, apparently.
And we should all know by now that threatening the government by not voting for them at the next election is a waste of time. Whatever party gets in is only going to be in it for themselves. Besides, if the Libs didn't get in, so what? They still get all the same lurks and perks as if they WERE in, but with none of the responsibility. What a great job...maybe I'll become a politician and keep switching parties everytime the one I'm with wins an election!
carnarvonite
Posts: 8706
Date Joined: 24/07/07
Returning the favour
Payback is a bitch.
For all those who voted the Libs in at the last election because of Labs proposed season closures now that they are half way through their term and have had time to look at the figures things are not so hunky dorey after all and something of a knee jerk reaction is needed to get it back on track.
Now everyone has to suffer because of the rash political promises made to get into government, all pollies involved with this deserve more than a swift kick up the bum or better still, voted out at the next election.
DhuBoi
Posts: 896
Date Joined: 25/05/09
There is no way that the
There is no way that the government can put this through. IMO commericial fisherman are the reason for demersals fish species stocks having crashed so much in recent year also 80% of the catch is exported to countries like china and japan ( who have nothing left in there oceans) .Compared to the commercial fisherman recreational fisherman and recreational boaties , would spend a much higher ammount per annum on fishing gear , boats , engines , fuel etc , licences, insurancem etc plus we also support a huge ammount of the economy boat joints tackle shops etc. A document I recently viewed at university which i had to have special permission to view was on the biology and catch rate of the dhufish via commercial / professional fisherman and done over a period of 2 years. 40 to 60 percent of the dhufish which are caught on long lines and in nets are undersized fish ranging from 36-46 cm in length .Same with pink snapper the under sized fish 30 -40cm which are caught by the professional / commercial are referred to TABLE SNAPPER ( what a load ) . This is an undersized fish and the begginning of our fish stocks if that was a recreational fisherman we would be convicted by law with huge fines. Another issue to bring into this is the licences which the government have given Foreign countries to fish within our waters a classic example are the indonesians which supposedly fish the traditional ways in our waters ,but not to mention the countless ammount of boats and the times that they have been caught with long lines, shark finning and taking over there quota of trochus shells and reef dwelling fish species. Australia and western australia in particular is one of the last places on earth which is relativly intact and still has a bright positive future outcome for reviving and maintaining fish stocks of all highly prized demersal fish species. All within reach fro recreational fisherman to access not far from our shores.Majority of people these days are catching there own fish as to buying it anyways as it is a great family activity and catching your food is much more positive challenging and good for the body and life. Tourism in the industry is also another industry which can thrive with the removment of such activities by commercial fisherman. A case study i also read at university which was on the kruger national park ( one of the largest national parks in the world ) the issue was farming and mining , they wanted to be rid of the national park for these purposes , but an analysis was done on how much money would be made by mining and farming the land over ten years and by tourism revenue of the national park over 10 years and the results were amazing , showing that tourism over 10 years would make ten fold that of the mining and farming of the land. Our government really needs to stand up and reconize that money is not a solution to this problem and stopping recreational fishing and diminishing bag limits. Commercial fisherman and international fisherman from foreign countries are. As a recreational fisher , we return undersize fish and dont destroy the environment as much as a commercial fisherman does. I take great care returning undersized fish to preserve and promote the growth of our fish stocks for future generations. Just my opinion and i hope i dont offend anyone.
living is fishing
carnarvonite
Posts: 8706
Date Joined: 24/07/07
Figures
As someone who used to earn a living as a professional fisherman I suggest you need to go back and look at your figures especially who spends the most on gear, licences, fuels etc. The average cray fisherman has to fork out something in the area of $4k per pot on his licence even though as it is now he can only use about 40% of them, bait works out around $40 a box and up to 12 each day, pen fees and the big one FUEL, with most boats using a minimum of 50-60 litres an hour and this isn't even counting pots and ropes.
There hasn't been a boat longlining for demersal fish for something like 20+ years, drop lining yes but longlining again you're off the mark.
Table snapper you will find are brought in from states where their size limits are less than ours and for the bulk of the fish being exported , turn the tables around. Buy a piece of fish at you local fish and chip shop, Kailis' and Cicerello's included and you are eating imported rubbish, usually sourced from Tiawan or Vietnam.
The days of snapper being exported are long gone because of demand from quality eateries and resturants usually outweighs supply same goes for dhufish though to my knowledge hasn't been exported overseas.
yellow and black
Posts: 65
Date Joined: 11/08/09
why do we put up with this
we all know that its bullshit and that it comes from a couple of nerds in the dept that dont have the resouces to do the research to get the right answers so they guess and we end up taking it up the back door . this last load of of shit smells the same ( hit the poor stupid rec fisher with a load of shit and when he yells then give him a compromise deal where he thinks it better than the first one and you still get to f@5k him ).
and we are the dumb/silent mob that do nothing but bitch about it
IS THERE SOMEONE OUT THERE THAT COULD LEAD US OUT OF THIS CRAP ?
scottywiper
Posts: 247
Date Joined: 09/03/08
Y and B...Recfishwest wants
Y and B...Recfishwest wants to hear from you...that's why they are having info sessions. But don't be afraid to ring talkback radio and write to papers about it...the wider media will only pick up on it if there is public reaction.
Cheers,
Scotty
DhuBoi
Posts: 896
Date Joined: 25/05/09
A drop line is what I meant
A drop line is what I meant my mistake but the figures thAt I shared are correct look at the data that is the important part also you add up every single boaties costs in western Australia ancompare that to all co
mercial fisherman I think you will find it the other way round . An I think you are wrong on the table snapper when they say it's fresh from carnavon mate an it's 30 to 40 cm long ! My posts figures are correct an we are meant to be standing up for reccies not commercials ! They are the reason for the stock loss of fish and so is our weak government !
living is fishing
carnarvonite
Posts: 8706
Date Joined: 24/07/07
Table snapper
As a resident of Carnarvon and has regularly seen the fisheries boys inspecting the pros snapper and other fish sizes as they unload you are well off the mark on suggesting they are taking undersize snapper. All the fish are manually offloaded in to big iceboxes so its not a case of not having access to measure them.
If they were we could expect our local newspaper to be reporting on the cases appearing in court but there hasn't been one pro appearing in the last 5 years to my knowledge.
hezzy
Posts: 1534
Date Joined: 27/11/09
good to see this subject is
good to see this subject is finally getting some attention ................ people need to get along to these meetings in numbers and put submissions in asap .....30 sept is the closing date
below is a link to some info on the very active gill net and long line fishery we have on the wa coast , west coast and southern ......
hezzy
http://www.daff.gov.au/brs/fisheries-
marine/info/fishery_status_reports_2008/chapters/joint_authority_fisheries/joint_authority_fisheries/western_australian_southern_demersal_gillnet_and_demersal_longline_fishery
OFW 11
evil flourishes when good men do nothing
marble
Posts: 790
Date Joined: 03/09/09
That link doesnt work for
That link doesnt work for me Hezzy . .
Cheers Ben
PMY 25 Centre Console DF300 Suzuki
hezzy
Posts: 1534
Date Joined: 27/11/09
sorry guys .i was trying to
sorry guys .i was trying to avoid the long post .but your right the link aint working
so the info is below re the long line stuff ,
the more people make comment on this IFAAC draft allocation in the paper the better .........and get to ameeting and make yourselves heard ..............im told only 5 rec fishers turned out to the gero meeting ???
apathy is our worst enemy here , been said before and is so true
hezzy
Western Australian Southern Demersal Gillnet and Demersal Longline FisheryThis information is also available in the following format:
The principal species targeted in the JASDGDLF are gummy shark (Mustelus antarcticus), whiskery shark (Furgaleus macki) and dusky shark (Carcharhinus obscurus). Another 25 species of shark and scalefish are also caught regularly, the most common being sandbar shark (C. plumbeus), hammerhead shark (Sphyrnidae) and wobbegong shark (Orectolobidae) (McAuley & Baudains 2007a). School shark (Galeorhinus galeus) were historically targeted in the south-eastern region of the fishery but are currently a minor component of the fishery’s byproduct.
Logbook data for the fishery in 2005–06 indicated a total shark catch of 909 t. Reported dusky shark catches are mostly C. obscurus, but there is likely to have been some confounding with bronze whaler shark (C. brachyurus). Catches of scalefish, such as queen snapper (Nemadactylus valenciennesi), blue groper (Achoerodus gouldii) and dhufish (Glaucosoma hebraicum), have collectively totalled about 150 t per year in recent years.
Before 1980, most shark fishers in the region were part-time operators who also fished other entitlements. Specialised sharkfishing vessels became common in the 1980s and, as a result, fishing effort increased six-fold from 1980–81 to 1987–88. The JASDGDLF was declared limited entry in 1988, and a system of gear-time units was introduced to control fishing effort. Under the system, each fisher has an allocation of units, each of which allows the setting of a specified length of net for one month. Initially, each unit had a length of 600 m for gillnet or 200 hooks for longline. Gillnets used have 6.5–7 inch stretched mesh size. The permitted net length was reduced to 540 m in 1992, and subsequently to 270 m of 20-mesh drop or 324 m of 15-mesh drop.
Before the changes introduced in 2006 (described below), the JASDGDLF units permitted the use of either 270 m of gillnet (regardless of mesh size) or 90 demersal longline hooks for one month (McAuley & Baudains 2007a).
In 2006, the Western Australian Government introduced a number of changes in all commercial fisheries to reduce mortality for shark species, especially dusky shark and sandbar shark. The changes, made explicitly to bring the fisheries back to 2001–02 effort levels, include the protection of all sharks and rays (other than the target species), a maximum size limit for dusky shark, additional controls on the use of longline, and the conversion of monthly gear units to daily gear units. Closures from 16 August to 15 October have also been introduced in continental-shelf waters west of 118°E to protect whiskery sharks during their pupping season.
In the 2005–06 fishing season, there were 57 licences in the JASDGDLF; however, fewer than half that number were active during the preceding decade. Fishing effort in 2005–06 was 143 000 km gillnet hours (standardised to include longline effort), 18% lower than in 2004–05 (174 000 km gillnet hours) and close to target levels.
Before 2006–07, monitoring and assessment in the JASDGDLF was based on analysis of monthly catch and effort statistics. In 2006–07, a more detailed daily/trip catchand- effort system was introduced. Unfortunately, the new requirements have been problematic for some fishers, and catch statistics since 2005–06 require validation (McAuley 2008a).
In 2009, the fishery was granted approved Wildlife Trade Operation (WTO) status under the Environment Protection and Biodiversity Conservation Act 1999 (EPBC Act) until 2012.
Status of the stocks
The fishery is managed primarily through setting effort levels intended to achieve target biomass levels of 40% of the initial level for the key target species. The timeframe for achieving the target level varies from species to species.
Gummy sharkEffort levels are intended to achieve gummy shark biomass levels of 40% of the initial level by 2010. The most recent assessment of Western Australian gummy shark (1998) was that its biomass, at 43% of the initial level, was slightly above the target. Gummy shark catches from the two southern gillnet and longline fisheries peaked at 500 t in 1991–92, but declined subsequently. Most of the catch is taken in the JASDGDLF, where the 2001–02 catch of gummy shark (343 t) was 40% higher than in the previous year. There have been further catch increases since then (456 t in 2003–04, 460 t in 2004–05 and 451 t in 2005–06). Development of an updated assessment model for the stock is a priority; until that happens, status is assessed through monitoring of catch and catch-rate data.
Whiskery sharkEffort levels are intended to achieve whiskery shark biomass levels of 40% of initial levels by 2010. Previous assessments indicated that the whiskery shark biomass declined until 2002–03, but that this decline had slowed since the late 1990s and biomass was around 35% of initial levels. A 2004 assessment indicated only about a 24% likelihood that whiskery shark would reach its target level by 2010. Activation of latent effort was seen to be limiting the possibility for this stock to rebuild, suggesting the need for additional management measures. Subsequent management changes appear to have improved the situation: the best estimate of total biomass is that it reached 36% of its unfished level in 2005–06.
Dusky sharkEffort levels are intended to achieve dusky shark biomass levels of 40% of initial levels by 2040. Most dusky sharks taken by the fishery are juveniles. Demographic analyses estimated that fishing mortality on this component of the population was sustainable, but that the future viability of the fishery would be compromised by catches of older dusky shark elsewhere. Declining catch rates throughout southwestern Australia suggest that the breeding population has been depleted and recruitment has declined. There has been concern that the incidental catch of dusky shark in the commonwealth-managed Western Tuna and Billfish Fishery could deplete the population, although economic conditions have led to strong declines in fishing effort in that fishery in recent years.
School sharkA marked increase in the use of hooks by Western Australian shark fishers from the mid-1990s increased the catches of large dusky shark (and sandbar shark). A recent demographic study indicated that the species is less productive than previously thought, and that combined removals by fishing and natural mortality have depleted the breeding stock. The recent management changes, particularly in the northern shark fisheries (section 29.3), might take more than a decade to become evident in available data.
Dusky shark are considered to be overfished (McAuley 2008a), and the status of this species was a major factor in recent management changes.
School shark are also taken in the JASDGDLF; hence, future management of school shark must take into account its overfished status in the Southern and Eastern Scalefish and Shark Fishery. Assessments of school shark in that fishery take into account catches from the JASDGDLF. The 2004–05 school shark catch in the JASDGDLF was 4 t.
OFW 11
evil flourishes when good men do nothing
marble
Posts: 790
Date Joined: 03/09/09
Cheers mate, thanks for
Cheers mate, thanks for that.
PMY 25 Centre Console DF300 Suzuki
synthos
Posts: 522
Date Joined: 23/06/07
I keep looking at the clock
but try as i might the date is not chaning to 1 April. What a joke I hate to say this all the buha on labours original 4 month ban I found myself not really fishing due to the weather during that period and now we have less limits and 2 month ban and a 4kg of fish limit per year farkin funny shit and as said before how do they plan to police this one and what happens if we catch a fish over 4 kg mmm dilemas I guess we could throw half back ?
mattg6020 (not verified)
Posts: 16
Date Joined: 01/01/70
Quote "Catches of scalefish,
Quote "Catches of scalefish, such as queen snapper, blue groper and dhufish have collectively totalled about 150 t per year".........
that's a fair amount of profitable "bycatch" in any one's books. surely this practice cannot be sustainable.
why can't they just line fish and get ride of these shameful nets. there are alot of pro's out there that do this, but just not in WA.
Sounds like typical WA though, living in the past and destroying the future!
Who ever is in control of Western Australian fisheries should be very ashamed that they allow for commercial demersal gill netting and the rec and pro gill netting in estuarys (fish breeding grounds) to take place. The fish just don't have a chance.
JMO
synthos
Posts: 522
Date Joined: 23/06/07
just a thought
If we all had to live by size limits ie pros and recs same limits then I dont see why the need for this extreeme controll as afterall is the purpose of size limits not there to ensure fish reproductive cycles ? if we pull a few 50cm snapper out that have bread what is it 3-6 cycles ? ( I aint actually have a clue guessing here) if pros would only life by that rule it should not require such an extreeem controll but they do get to take everything and keep everything they catch ...
DhuBoi
Posts: 896
Date Joined: 25/05/09
Thtas because pro's cant
Thtas because pro's cant control what they catch like us reccies we get a fish on straight away we pull it up , with pros its just a big drop line they set and by the time they pull it up everything on the line is basically dead .
living is fishing
Barrd Up
Posts: 75
Date Joined: 25/10/08
This government is
This government is unreal.
Introduce a boat fishing licence and then use the numbers against us. There are 3 licenses in my house, but only I fish for demersals. The guy I work with has 5 licenses in his house and none of them fish for demersals. But this government sees fit to say that all 66,ooo license holders fish for demersals.
Introduced new bag limits i.e 1 dhu per person and then don't even wait to see the effect of the new bag/boat limits. Poor science, how do they know that new bag limits are not working.
How can they allocate 65% OF A PUBLIC RESOURCE to the proffessions. Maybe the proffesional fisherman should be like the mining industry and pay a royalty for making money out of a public resource. If the fish stocks are in such a bad state, perhaps the proffessionals should be removed from the fishery altogether.
carnarvonite
Posts: 8706
Date Joined: 24/07/07
Royalty
In the latest round of increases for the pros is a 7% "royalty"payment on each kg of fish they catch over and above all the licences and permits they already have to pay.
joffa
Posts: 45
Date Joined: 18/04/10
please clarify for me..
for Dhufish only (which is what its all about)
What do the commercial sector get allocated (as percentage) now?
What does the rec sector get allocated now?
the reason i ask is that i thought reading the allocations "us recs" were getting less than a third now?
dont quote me but without re-reading it i thought (70% comm / 30% rec) now ???
Im sure the figures are flawed - lots of assumptions on stock in that report!!
the fishery should be shared - it is a public resource as barrd up states.and i like demersal super tax!!!! well done!
joffa
Posts: 45
Date Joined: 18/04/10
dont bother....
just spoken to recfishwest and they have clarified that the draft allocation of dhufish in the west coast zone will remain at approx 50/50 based on 05-06 catch data.36/70 allocation is for the overall scale-fish fishery.
cheers joff
DhuBoi
Posts: 896
Date Joined: 25/05/09
Get rid of the commercials i
Get rid of the commercials i say we have already had bag limits cut licences brought in what else more do they want in the end it will defeat the purpose of hAvin a boat if we can't catch anything decent !
living is fishing
DhuBoi
Posts: 896
Date Joined: 25/05/09
No offense carnavonite but I
No offense carnavonite but I can't see that out of every fish that the pros pull up which are pink snapper that they are all legal sizes ? Iv seen in fresh seafood markets carnavon snapper n they are tiny like 30 to 40 cm like I have previously stated . Also if they don't bring In the small s apper that they. Catch do they throw dead fish away ? ?
living is fishing
carnarvonite
Posts: 8706
Date Joined: 24/07/07
Undersize
They have to put undersize fish back, the same as you do and their penalties are ten times what an amateurs are plus the risk of losing their licence altogther wich is worth a couple of hundred grand leaving them with a boat worth next to nothing because of the flood of ex crayboats already on the market.
roberta
Posts: 2773
Date Joined: 08/07/08
I have to agree with
DhuBoi, caranarvite, old fart and I've seen under size (for amateurs to catch) in our IGA superstore here in Spearwood, advertised as pan size pink snapper. Old fart has many a time commented to the fish monger there about the size of snapper and also their advertising for Dhueifish, which they incorrectly labelled jewfish (eastern states) as our dhuie, they were selling them whole and no way they were dhuie's,
I've also stated on here what old fart and I have seen caught in the two month ban last year in Leeman, and I'm telling you fellas it was disgusting, bloody beautiful 15kg or more breeders of dhuie, snapper, they'd have to go to the second bank in Leeman to caught those size fish, it made my heart ache to see them especially when the so called experts say its peek breeding time for the dhuie and other fish. This particular pro fisherman in Leeman brags how he catches 300kgs of dhuie each year, yes he has had his days curtailed but he still catches a endangered species and we the amateur have our hands tied for two months a year and now maybe more cuts to our bag limit
Ginger Tablets Rock
carnarvonite
Posts: 8706
Date Joined: 24/07/07
Others???
Please can someone tell me who would supply quality local fish to the people who, for some reason or another cannot catch, be given from a friend or buy a feed if there was no pros because of a some greedy fisherfolk who demand that the pros licences be bought out. I would guarantee that there are more of these people than boat owners, rec fisherpersons etc and their voice is being heard by the pollies the same as yours is.
So can someone offer some advice on where it would come from when already there are warnings not to eat Nile Perch and a lot of imported rubbish with high risks of catching diseases from inhygenic growing and packing conditions. Ask yourself, would you buy it? Not me I'm afraid.
JakeB
Posts: 262
Date Joined: 12/12/09
What about aqua-culture?
What about aqua-culture? Surely farmed seafood is a viable alternative to commercially over-fishing a natural resource?
Adam Gallash
Posts: 15665
Date Joined: 29/11/05
Were trying
We sell our barra to a local Perth supermarket, the problem is the amount of barra you need to grow to get a good return on investment, the costs of production are generally very high. Especially the amount of infrastructure you need to host that many fish, we have 10 growout tanks - 8 at 6t and 2 at 12t and can hold about 13,000 fish give or take. The cost recovery is very low, we'd need to do 70-100000 to be really viable. The problem is the market is still very demanding for fresh 'natural' fish and because its available, the demand for cultured fish is diminished at this point in time.
We have been looking at faster growing species and are getting close with dolphinfish, we are also looking at trout, octapus, jacks, cobia or anything that may be grown on at a decent rate.
Site Admin - Just ask if you need assistance
DhuBoi
Posts: 896
Date Joined: 25/05/09
I can't beleive that ? So
I can't beleive that ? So they are false advertising fish such as snapper which arefrom western Australi. And are only 30 to 40 cm long ? I don't think so like a post said previously pros keep what they catch ! Wheredo table snapper come from if the sign sais carnavon or shark bay on the sign ? An the by time a pro pulls his drop line up majority of the fish hooked are dead undersize or not ! Buyin all pros licences is impossible but buyin majority will work , majoirty of people own boats now anyways ! If this rule does go ahead which it won't becuz it is impossible to implement I won't be following it nor buyin dhufish for 80 bucks a kilo ! As I previously stated n posts tourism fishing industry could really benefit from gettin rid of majority of pro fisherman !
living is fishing
flangies
Posts: 2557
Date Joined: 11/05/08
DO the majority of people
DO the majority of people own boats?
carnarvonite
Posts: 8706
Date Joined: 24/07/07
Majority of boat owners
Take a drive down any street and see how many DON'T have boats and the ones that do how many people have their name on the rego papers for it??
If an undersize fish comes up dead or alive it goes back, that is the law, like it or not. I don't and never have liked it but thats the way it is.
As for where the so called table snapper come from, ask the person selling it because I'm certain it doesn't come from WA if its only 30-40cm.
Aqua culture in time will supply some of the market but not in the next ten or fifteen years. Adam may be able to give an insight to this.
The fish they are concentrating on are the fastest growing species so that it keeps the production cost down, eg, yellowtail kings, dolphin fish, barra, atlantic salmon etc but its still got a long way to go to make a dent in the total catch.
Compare the taste of an imported cultured prawn that has grown up swimming in its own waste with a wild caught one and I know which one you will prefer.
DhuBoi
Posts: 896
Date Joined: 25/05/09
Yeh I know what quality is
Yeh I know what quality is i'm not at university for no reason! Something needs to be done as you said fish farmin and aqua culture is a partial solution but cuttin catch rate of reccies will not fix anything!
living is fishing
carnarvonite
Posts: 8706
Date Joined: 24/07/07
Experts
Tell that to the experts in fisheries, they are the ones who put the figures before the pollies. And while you are at it tell your local politician that you are not happy and he will be looking for a change of job after the next election of something isn't done about it and done now.
The pros are taking a heck of a beating as well as the amateur and I can bet they are doing some talking to thei local member as well.
joffa
Posts: 45
Date Joined: 18/04/10
back to the basics...
they only get the "3.6 kilo figure" by dividing the draft allocated catch by the number of rfbl's - (rec fishing from boat licence).
there will not be a fisheries inspector chopping up fish at the ramp.
the tac (total allowable catch) for rec fishers - lets say for dhufish remains as it did last year - it just sounds like bugger all because the kilo figure is divided by every boat that holds an rfbl but not all fish for dhufish.
Tony Halliday
Posts: 2500
Date Joined: 14/06/07
yip and thats why all three
yip and thats why all three of our family now have a RFBL, so we can get our 3x3.6 kilos as a family then... :-)
Also as long as the end of the year total take by all rec fishermen going for dermals still averages out at 3.6kg then we fine, this means some will get zero for the year as they did not fish or targeted other species or are just cr@p. and others will have say 10kg and some even more. So we back to what I want to see is a max take for the anglers as well for the year per angler. Still keep the average, but limit the top 5% of guns out there to say 20kg a year or 5 dhuies etc.... ( just think about it for awhile before you shoot it down)
JMO
Tony Halliday: ~Meals on Reels ~
It takes a strong fish to swim against the current. Even a dead one can float with it
"It is always in season for old men to learn." Aeschylus (525-456 BC)
"In a mad world only the mad are sane." Akira Kurosawa (1910-1998)
Wazo
Posts: 84
Date Joined: 12/06/08
I can see where you're
I can see where you're coming from Tony, but the primary problem still remains in that 50+ pro's are still allowed 900 tonnes of fish/ year AND still allowed to strip fish populations during OUR closure.
We've already sacrificed enough and, personally, I'm not prepaired to yield any further.
It's time that the MANAGERS OF OUR CONSTITUTIONAL FISH STOCKS, stopped believing it's a resource to be mined.
They manage what is ours....THEY DON'T OWN IT!!!
Dhufish are an emotive animal ....The Pro's are the problem and need to accept that in order to stop biomass depletion...they need to stop mining 900 tonnes per year and leaving habitats stripped bare.
RECREATIONAL FISHERMEN ARE FARMERS.....PROFESSIONAL FISHERMEN ARE MINERS
Berin
Posts: 150
Date Joined: 15/07/10
Great Post !
What a great post !
This argument is at least a thousand years old and resolution seems to be no closer now than when the romans were growing tilapia in BC.
It is certainly an argument that gets the juices flowing, there are many stakeholders in the game. Pros, reccys and consumers all want the same thing......good stocks of wild fish.....cheap.
The recreational catch has been traditionally very hard to quantify and the Pros are proctective of their data as it can be used against them (creative accounting)
Both parties there are fighting for the same thing, but against each other.
I love a good argument, I love a good resolution more.
Rod P
Posts: 725
Date Joined: 20/05/08
Not all fish you see in the
Not all fish you see in the shops come from our fisheries. I have asked befor and actually found that snapper for example that are undersize may come from areas were there are legal to cathc them. Also from some form of aquacultra.
As a owner of two boats, a holder of a RFBL i hope they never ban comercial boats as the only fish i eat are from the shops/markets.
Not everyone can be bothered catching, killing and cleaning there own fish.
I do think the proposal is stupid though and honestly can't believe we are even having to consider combating the stupidness of it.
Colt_Striker
Posts: 624
Date Joined: 26/07/09
Get rid of Norman Moore
My Suggestion is
We should all (Rec Fishers) register ourselves in Norman Moores electorate Geraldton & come the next State election get rid of him & his large commercial Mates that own conglomerates in the area.
slam
Posts: 168
Date Joined: 09/09/09
Obviously we all have our
Obviously we all have our say about this topic online, however actions speak louder than words, so lets see everyone down at Femantle on Wed or wherever you local meeting is being held & let the recreational fishermen be heard. The more people, the more we are taken seriously!!
Garry Lilley
Posts: 65
Date Joined: 27/09/06
i've been sending emails to
i've been sending emails to talkback radio for a couple of days.be good for them to get a few more and get the issue bought up in the wider community.
only takes a couple of minutes.
scotto
Posts: 2474
Date Joined: 21/04/08
Top work Garry
can you post some email addresses for the radio stations on here, so the rest of us can do the same thing.
DhuBoi
Posts: 896
Date Joined: 25/05/09
On the money wazo , great
On the money wazo , great post mate , exactly what i think aswell , pros are the problem .
living is fishing
Grooveepants
Posts: 194
Date Joined: 06/03/10
I'm suprised none of the
I'm suprised none of the tackle shop owners or boat yard guys have made any comments on this. They're the ones who are going to suffer the most. I wonder what the percentage drop in sales would need to be for these guys to go bust?
Who's going to buy a boat over 6 metres to go fishing for bloody whiting and herring?
I realise fishing is also a sport and catch and release is great but if you eat a lot of fish then why not keep one every now and again. It's that or buy it from the shop and then what's the difference, the fish still end up dead. Is it because the government gets the good old GST from that sale???
As for the politicians, they're only good for one thing and that is cray bait. Maybe we should invite the idiots who have come up with this scam out for a days fishing. I wonder how many crays they could catch.
At the end of the day, if we don't stand up and make ouselves heard, either by going to the meeting or sending in our opinion through the website, then we shouldn't winge and complain when shit hits the fan and this bill gets passed and we all end up screwed.
joe amato
Posts: 731
Date Joined: 21/12/08
what a load of crap
after reading this article and post,i will be down at fremantle sailing club tomorrow night to stand up and be counted,so i say we should all be there to voice our concerns,that is a load of crap,first you pay your fishing licence only to cop it in the bum, thats not on
Grooveepants
Posts: 194
Date Joined: 06/03/10
See You All There
METROPOLITAN AREA
Wednesday 28 July
6.30pm - 8.30pm
Fremantle Sailing Club
Marine Terrace
Fremantle
MANDURAH
Thursday 29 July
6.30pm - 8.30pm
RAAFA Estate Meadow Springs
41 Portrush Parade
Meadow Springs
Wazo
Posts: 84
Date Joined: 12/06/08
Be Heard Tonight
Last chance before your screwed royally.
Get down to Freo and be heard or get ready for another Pro/Pollie serve
Salmo
Posts: 913
Date Joined: 15/08/05
Love the passion guys
but the document is a draft
Scotty article simplified things a little with the 3.6kg per boat a year
anglers just need to express their concerns about demersal IFM
this draft is not set in concrete
Andy Mac
Posts: 4778
Date Joined: 03/02/06
Just read the report again
no mention of allocating kilo's per fisherman, as Salmo said it is an oversimplification of the total allocation.
The good points I see in the report are that they recognise the limitations in the creel survey data and have boosted this data when doing the comparison with commercial take. This results in a greater share for rec than would otherwise have been allocated.
Questions I would ask at the meeting if I were there are as follows:
Anyway, just a few quick points on my take of the report. I haven't studied it in detail but have read through once. I may have missed something but the above are the gaps in the report that I noticed. I recommend everyone reads the report before going to the meeting.
I think the 4kg per person is a bit of an oversimplification and the management of the allocated split is what should concern everyone more.
Basically what I think it is saying is today we think the wildfish recource can withstand x tonnes annually in terms of extraction. They want to split it between the two sectors and have used historical catch datea to do this. The fact that many people have caught more than 1 dhufish in the past has nothing to do with the end tonnage achieved by the entire sector. Thats where the split is not in terms of per person.
I am in favour of a TAC as such as there needs to be a cap on what is taken out in order to maintain sustainable fishing. Where more dialogue needs to be undertaken is on how this split will be managed during a fishing season and how the split percentages should be decided in the first place. I firmly believe that $ per kilo spent in the rec sector is far greater than the dollars per kilo spent in the commercial sector. I would love to see someone do a study that provides figures that back it up. Maybe something for an economics major at Uni to do in his/her spare time.
Cheers
Andy Mac (Fishwrecked Reeltime Editor & Forum Moderator)
Youngest member of the Fishwrecked Old Farts Club
hlokk
Posts: 4293
Date Joined: 04/04/08
Some very good points there,
Some very good points there, especially in terms of value. I doubt many people at all come even close to acheiving even $80/kg. I would be very scary to consider just how much each kilo of fish costs us to get via recreational methods. Of course, most people, myself included dont go fishing because its a cheaper way of getting fish fillets.
I think it should be obvious that on average, and for the vast majority of people, the cost per kilo if you were to work it out that way is many many times more than the retail cost at a fish market. It cant possibly be more cost efficient, as if it was, the commercials would be doing that instead (getting small trailer boats and catching fish on rods and reels). But they dont tend to use these methods, so its obvious they arent as cost effective. It certainly would be interesting to see just how much more it is. The figure would be a bit scary, but if the government realises that recs spend say 5-10 times as much per kilo, then the resource should be allocated with consideration to this. Putting it in cold hard dollar figures is likely to get more attention than some uneducated pollie with no clue as to how recs operate (e.g. not knowing what bottom bouncing was
) just assuming because they have the commercial total cost and none for recs that that is how it is.
Andy Mac
Posts: 4778
Date Joined: 03/02/06
Here is some very basic math for you to consider
According to a fisheries paper I just found http://www.fish.wa.gov.au/docs/mp/mp191/wetline_info.pdf
The economic value of the 2001 westcoast wetline fishery was $5.3m. so if the commercial sector in the West Coast Fishery caught 900 tonnes of fish, then that makes 5,300,000 divided by 900,000 = $5-89 per kilo
I'd hate to think what it costs me to catch a kilo of fish and I reckon I would be a lower cost than a great many others but a darn sight more than $5-89.
Something to ponder.
My disclaimer is that I've plucked these numbers out of various reports and havent cross referenced them so they are probably very inaccurate, but in the absence of anything else perhaps its a starting point for someone to delve a little deeper and get some better numbers.
Cheers
Andy Mac (Fishwrecked Reeltime Editor & Forum Moderator)
Youngest member of the Fishwrecked Old Farts Club
hlokk
Posts: 4293
Date Joined: 04/04/08
Would be interesting just to
Would be interesting just to add up all the revenues from fishing shops, licenses and boat yards (weighted to number of fishing vs other boats) as a start. Of course, the real cost is much higher, but would be interesting if those alone were approaching or even more than the total commercial value.
Even looking at fishing licenses alone, at 66,000 times thats about $2 million alone. Not to mention all the other licenses. And I suspect nearly all who got a RFBL spent several time more on gear, bait, fuel, etc. Not to mention they would also have to have access to a boat and all associated costs (e.g. rego, maintenance, etc). Not all will have boats, but even divide by 10 and it wouldnt be a small figure.
Tony Halliday
Posts: 2500
Date Joined: 14/06/07
just ake a few simple
just ake a few simple figures of
66,000 x $200 per person per year as a very low figure for what we send on fishing,
then add in some hard core nuts ( say 5% of the RFBL holders ) that spend say $1000 a year above that
then say 500 new boats and motors etc a year ( let's be conservative and use a $5000 figure for guys just buying for fishing only... tinnies upto 5m basic rigs)
66000x200 = $13,2m
66000x5%x$1000 = $3,3m
500x$5000 = $2.5m
Thats easily $19m before you go into the detail.
My gut feel is the Rec Fishing industry must be worth at least $50m a year to WA in direct fishing related expenses.
Tony Halliday: ~Meals on Reels ~
It takes a strong fish to swim against the current. Even a dead one can float with it
"It is always in season for old men to learn." Aeschylus (525-456 BC)
"In a mad world only the mad are sane." Akira Kurosawa (1910-1998)
DhuBoi
Posts: 896
Date Joined: 25/05/09
on the money andy this is
on the money andy this is what i was suggesting before .
living is fishing
ruste13
Posts: 249
Date Joined: 07/02/10
you can still fish for sport
you can still fish for sport
Wazo
Posts: 84
Date Joined: 12/06/08
Indirect Income
Problem is Tony..Pro money goes directly to Govt budget and is calculated as a % of budget.
Retail spending is altogether different as is calculated as such.
saltatrix
Posts: 1081
Date Joined: 30/03/08
$1000 a year above thatI
$1000 a year above that
I think you need to rethink that figure Tony. An EPIRB is around $500 alone.
The average bottom bouncing outfit can be $400 on average just for rod and reel.
10 blocks of mulies is $100
If I spent $7000 last month on fishing gear, which dont tell the wife, the next fish will be worth that. Beats $5.89 a kilo hey.
Someone needs to do a Creel type report on recreational fish value. It probably works out at $200 a kilo and theres no tax deduction on that either.
If a bloke spends $60000 on a recreational fishing boat just to cover the boat alone without fuel or any other equipment fuel or bait he or she would have to catch a 1000 kilograms of fish. Thats just the boat.
A well written report might scare a few pollies about the money that might otherwise be spent instead in Bali by the pool which is a massively growing trend.
How much is that fish worth? Where we will the recreational fishing economy go?
I wouldnt want to be in the tackle industry in the next 5 years. It doesnt look good.
Angling tourism is worth $10 billion to the Australian economy - 90000 jobs; more than any sport; spread the word
Tony Halliday
Posts: 2500
Date Joined: 14/06/07
yes I know, my wife MUST
yes I know, my wife MUST NEVER know what I spend on gear :-)
but if you take the bottom average punter who just busy a Kmart outfit and goes two or three times a year as the bench mark lower end, and guys that will buy one good reel or rod a year, they will fall in the $1000~$2000 range,
Idiots like me, you and others can spend easily over $10k a year on fishing and boating gear, let alone fuel, bait etc...
I will find the report done by the Peel Region on the ecconomic effect of the horse ownership industry as an example.
People where shocked when the real ecconomic figure came in that each horse genrates $1000 ~ $2000 per month of income to region for recreational horses and twice that figure for privately owned race horses / sport-show-jumpers etc!
I know cause I got hay-burners as well...lol
That report took into account everything from sales of horse feed, to labor on the farms / stables, fuel for floats and drivers, training, tourism outrides, betting & gambling from horse racing, cattering at the race tracks / tabs, beer sold even.
Tony Halliday: ~Meals on Reels ~
It takes a strong fish to swim against the current. Even a dead one can float with it
"It is always in season for old men to learn." Aeschylus (525-456 BC)
"In a mad world only the mad are sane." Akira Kurosawa (1910-1998)
saltatrix
Posts: 1081
Date Joined: 30/03/08
The majority of average
The majority of average Australians dont eat local fish at resturants or the fish and chip shop.
Its all imported Me Kong swamp fish or Aqua cultured Barramundi, Atlantic salmon etc.
So, the Western Australians want to be able to buy local species produce is a crock. They eat fish grown in toilet water.
The majority of demersel fish is eaten by high flyers in expensive resturants over east.
Half the names on fish is ficticious any rate.
Dhufish caught by the commercial sector isnt eaten by West Australians. Its a furphy to justify the demersel industry.
Angling tourism is worth $10 billion to the Australian economy - 90000 jobs; more than any sport; spread the word
saltatrix
Posts: 1081
Date Joined: 30/03/08
The total value of
The total value of Australian imports of fisheries products increased by 24% in 1999-2000, to an estimated $1,092m (table 17.13), although Australia remained a net exporter of fisheries products. Easily the biggest contributor to this rise was the value of imports of pearls, which trebled to $225m; as already indicated, this is mainly due to a revision in the treatment of trade data. Imports of frozen fillets (worth $175m) increased by 11% to remain in value terms the largest edible fisheries product imported, accounting for 16% of the total value of imported fisheries products. The next most valuable imported items were canned fish and prawns, worth $158m and $148m respectively. The main countries of origin of imported fisheries products were Thailand (22% of total import value), New Zealand (14%) and the United States of America (7%).
1100 million dollars of imorts in 2000, 10 years ago
Angling tourism is worth $10 billion to the Australian economy - 90000 jobs; more than any sport; spread the word
JR JetSki
Posts: 247
Date Joined: 23/04/10
Good one there Wazo.
I guess it is the retail spending that keeps a lot of guys in business? The Pro's don't have the same size of job creation as the rec's. Am I right or wrong here? Something to think about, after all rec fishing should be classified as an industry on its own, why, because it supports so many other industries, Boating shops, boat yards, storage, fishing tackle shops, diving shops etc etc. I don't think we realise what damage the econnomy will suffer if this industry gets hurt.
JR JetSki
JR JetSki
Posts: 247
Date Joined: 23/04/10
Forgot to mention BCF,
Forgot to mention BCF, Rangers etc. Guess there are so many I have not even thought about.
JR JetSki
Cam
Posts: 143
Date Joined: 30/08/05
I think the rec fish fishery
I think the rec fish fishery in WA is probably a lot more than we expect with all the ad ons. The rec fishery just for bonefish in florida is a Billion dollars per annum. (all catch and release)
Andy Mac
Posts: 4778
Date Joined: 03/02/06
Here is my personal estimated calc
I think that based on our family and my average catch rate I would think that the cost per kilo expensed by a rec fisherman is going to be around 10 times that of a commercially caught fish. Here is my working out, which I think is very conservative, and I know a heck of a lot of fisho's that would catch far less fish than my boat does with twice the effort, so these numbers are on the low side:
$500 per annum in Insurance
$500 per annum in engine services
$150 boat rego
$150 trailer rego
$60 RFBL x 2
$1200 fuel avg $80 per trip and about 15 trips per year
$600 Bait and terminal tackle ($40 per trip)
$500 misc tackle (not counting rods and reels)
$2250 Boat depreciation (cost of my $45k boat spread over a 5% dep'n scale)
$5910 total cost per year minimum
Total catch would average say 7kgs of demersal fish per trip times 15 trips = 105kgs of demersal fish.
$5910 divided by 105 = $56.29 per kilo.
Thats just a bit more
than the $5-89 per kilo assumed to be the economic contribution of the west coast wet line fishery based on those earlier numbers.
That's what the pollies need to consider when apportioning the take of these species.
I have nothing against the commercial fishing industry as they are seeking to be sustainable just as much as the recs, but I take exception to the slicing of the pie in a way that disproportionately favours the commercial sector based solely on historical catches.
Sure fred bloggs down the road that can't afford a boat still wants to have fish once a week, but I challenge anyone to say that the enjoyment Fred gets out of eating his fish (even if it is cooked by a masterchef finalist) is anything like the degree of enjoyment anyone on here would get from catching cooking and eating a fish we have spent thousands of dollars chasing, endless hours talking about, countless days and nights spent in eager anticipation of the weather clearing, terrabites worth of computer space devoted to our fishing pics which give us enjoyment years and decades after the event. I am sure Fred Bloggs won't be drooling over his picture of his masterchef prepared basa fillet for years to come.
Besides the economic contibution a rec caught fish generates, what about the enjoyment factor! I know my kids enjoy a a birdseye fish finger the same as anyones kids but that doesnt compare to the enjoyment we share when they catch a good fish all by themselves.
More food for thought.
Cheers
Andy Mac (Fishwrecked Reeltime Editor & Forum Moderator)
Youngest member of the Fishwrecked Old Farts Club
saltatrix
Posts: 1081
Date Joined: 30/03/08
Just think Andy<p> All of
Just think Andy<p>
All of the federal fisheries management revenue could end up in a urinal in Bali.<p>
Or a New Zealand tourism economy..<p>
More and more of it is.<p>
How many more anglers you know taking money overseas?<p>
<p>
Before its too late, if thats not already on its way..<p>
Someone needs to rethink their accounting...
Angling tourism is worth $10 billion to the Australian economy - 90000 jobs; more than any sport; spread the word
scottywiper
Posts: 247
Date Joined: 09/03/08
Andy is 100% right, I
Andy is 100% right, I deliberately simplified the figures in the Sunday Times column to capture people's attention, and then hoped it would encourage them to dig deeper and want to seek more information on what is being planned with IFM allocation.
And I hope it worked...130-140 people turned up tonight, passionate about the future of rec fishing.
I applaud everyone who turned up for taking the time to be there and hope the upcoming meetings also are well attended.
Tigh82
Posts: 225
Date Joined: 04/05/06
People
I was there and it i don't think they were expecting (or wanted) that many people to show up. Everyone was backed out the entrance. Well done for the people who went, to be honest i expected a few more but it was good to hear peoples thoughts and concerns. Now we just need to get submissions and wait to see how they react!
Tony Halliday
Posts: 2500
Date Joined: 14/06/07
Well done to those that
Well done to those that went,
I was still up north on the mines, but I was thinking last night that we should have a real show of force to stop any silly bugger anticts by the pollies again!
Tony Halliday: ~Meals on Reels ~
It takes a strong fish to swim against the current. Even a dead one can float with it
"It is always in season for old men to learn." Aeschylus (525-456 BC)
"In a mad world only the mad are sane." Akira Kurosawa (1910-1998)
hezzy
Posts: 1534
Date Joined: 27/11/09
tonights meeting
tonights meeting agenda in mandurah below for those who are going ..........
freo was a good turnout ,lets keep it up
hezzy
RECFISHWEST
BRIEFING TO RECREATIONAL FISHERS BY
INTEGRATED FISHERIES ALLOCATION
ADVISORY COMMITTEE
AGENDA
Thursday, 29 July 20106.30 pm – 8.30 pm
RAAFA Estate Meadow Springs
41 Portrush Parade
Meadow Springs
No.
Agenda Item
Time
1.
Apologies and welcome
6.30 pm
2.
Address by Chair of Meeting (Andrew Rowland)
6.30 pm -
6.40 pm
3.
Briefing on IFM (Lindsay Joll & Fiona Crowe)
6.40 pm – 6.50 pm
4.
Briefing on West Coast Demersal Scalefish draft Allocation Report (Ian Longson, Chair of Integrated Fisheries Allocation Advisory Committee)
6.50 pm – 7.30 pm
5.
Question and answer session
7.30 pm –
8.30 pm
6.
Close
8.30 pm
OFW 11
evil flourishes when good men do nothing
Dale
Posts: 7930
Date Joined: 13/09/05
So nothing for us guys to go
So nothing for us guys to go to down this way Mike? So much for everyone having their say.
Cheers
Dale
"Just because you are a Character, Doesn't mean you have Character."
Mr Wolf
hezzy
Posts: 1534
Date Joined: 27/11/09
dale ....yeh , there will be
dale ....yeh , there will be several more meetings ,
busso is the 4th august at 6.30 pm royal palm hotel
bunbury will be the 5th august 6.30pm at the sanctuary golf club
due to the level of attendance , recfishwest are currently organising for another metro meeting , north of the river at hillarys , then jurien and a re grab at gero ..............so you guys will get to attend one
if you pm me your email addy ill send ya some info to pass around on the schedule /agenda etc .and key point s so far dale , same for any one else who wishes
tonights meeting in mandurah had a good attendance , about 110 , and some good issues where raised , and the committe i think got a good feel for the depth of the rec fishers sentiments on their draft
cheers hezzy
OFW 11
evil flourishes when good men do nothing
Tony Halliday
Posts: 2500
Date Joined: 14/06/07
http://www.peel.wa.gov.au/dat
http://www.peel.wa.gov.au/data/client/files/272_peel_ep_new_lores.pdf
http://www.peel.wa.gov.au/data/client/files/269_peel_regional_infrastructure_plan_final.pdf
http://www.racingbureau.org/pdf/trb-e-2002.pdf
here are three documents produced to show ecconomic impact of the horse and racing industries on the Peel Region.
We need the smae done for Recreational Fishing impact,
local, tourism, charters, businesses effected etc.
ps, read the Thoroughbred racing industry figures and be shocked that those nags are worth $6billion a year in GDP to Australia.
So whats Rec & Tourism fishing worth????
note Rocklobster was only worth $14m a year to the Peel region in 2004/2005! I bet the recfishing industry was worth triple that for that region.
Tony Halliday: ~Meals on Reels ~
It takes a strong fish to swim against the current. Even a dead one can float with it
"It is always in season for old men to learn." Aeschylus (525-456 BC)
"In a mad world only the mad are sane." Akira Kurosawa (1910-1998)
carnarvonite
Posts: 8706
Date Joined: 24/07/07
Rock lobster figures
Interesting figures for the rock lobster boats in the Peel region considering there are only about 10-12 boats working the area for the full season.
Tony Halliday
Posts: 2500
Date Joined: 14/06/07
yip, I would wonder if these
yip, I would wonder if these days with less boats out now inn 2010 season what the benefit would be now? Prices of lobster / crays where much better back in 2004 than last season after the GFC.
even at $1,4m per boat, thats the total input /output GDP value. What is the turn over of a crayboat in a season ( all costs), plus the land based processors and auxcillary costs? would it be $1,5m per boat per season? I can't answer this, but some of you can
Tony Halliday: ~Meals on Reels ~
It takes a strong fish to swim against the current. Even a dead one can float with it
"It is always in season for old men to learn." Aeschylus (525-456 BC)
"In a mad world only the mad are sane." Akira Kurosawa (1910-1998)